St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyond?

[bcarlisle]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

I just read this in the Watertown Times:

"LONG WAIT FOR SEXTON
Clarkson captain Ben Sexton got to play his first game in Appleton Arena Saturday night.
During his first three seasons Sexton had injury problems and it always worked out where he was wearing a suit and tie and watching Clarkson/SLU games in Canton from the stands.
He made the most of his opportunity, scoring a goal in the first period to tie the game 2-2. It was the same building where his father, Randy, played for SLU from 1978-82.
“These games are the most fun ones to play,” Sexton said. “I grew up a St. Lawrence fan. I always wanted to be a Skating Saint and things changed. I’m just happy to get that win tonight.”

Does anyone know what happened? Did we not want him? He's a pretty good hockey player.

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20131208/SPORTS03/712089827

 

[bcarlisle]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Meantime, if you are looking for some good news from SLU sports, the squash team is absolutely killing it with national competition. 5-0 going into two matches today they should win. 41-4 in games. Our best player is injured and not even playing.
Here are your CSA National squash rankings:

1.Trinity College (1)
2. Harvard University (2)
3. Yale University (4)
4. St. Lawrence University (6)
5. Rochester, University of (5)
6. Franklin and Marshall College (7)
7. Princeton University (3)
8. Cornell University (8)
9. Western Ontario, University of (9)
10.Dartmouth College (10)
11. Columbia University (12)
12. Bates College (13)
13. Pennsylvania, University of (Penn) (14)
14. Naval Academy (15)
15. Brown University (16)

 

[saintsdad]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

That's the other thing that bugs me about last night---at one point in the 3rd (I think it was), we were on a power play and 2 C'son players had lost their sticks. So, as the announcer pointed out, it was basically a 5 on 2---and we couldn't get organized enough to score on that!

We had a 2 on 1 breakaway where whoever it was on the lead (there's that age again) decided to get fancy and seemed to forget what he was doing instead of playing straight at the goalie hockey--and blew the pass and lost the chance.

To me, the blown leads are because too many of the guys start reading (or trying to write) their own press before the game is over and don't play all 60 minutes. The guys who are earning the press are getting it because they continue to play, regardless of the score.

1 word-----Fundamentals

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

That's the other thing that bugs me about last night---at one point in the 3rd (I think it was), we were on a power play and 2 C'son players had lost their sticks. So, as the announcer pointed out, it was basically a 5 on 2---and we couldn't get organized enough to score on that!

We had a 2 on 1 breakaway where whoever it was on the lead (there's that age again) decided to get fancy and seemed to forget what he was doing instead of playing straight at the goalie hockey--and blew the pass and lost the chance.

To me, the blown leads are because too many of the guys start reading (or trying to write) their own press before the game is over and don't play all 60 minutes. The guys who are earning the press are getting it because they continue to play, regardless of the score.

1 word-----Fundamentals

Yeah, I think on that 5-2 and in the 3rd, 0ur PP was pressing to much and succumbing to the pressure. Even though we were in a position where we had to score, you can't play like that.

As for tired, we had a ton of PP time last night and I think if you looked at the on-ice time of the first line and even the second line it would be way out of whack. With two game misconducts, we should have tried to roll 4 lines and use that to our advantage but we couldn't. I thought we were gassed in the third, especially our first line.

That two on one was Essery. Don't remember who the trailer was, but yeah, nothing was working last night.

As for Sexton, I thought we offered him but Clarkson offered him more. I don't remember but it's really a travesty when we lose guys like Sexton, Poapst, Gallagher (to Cornell) and Goulakas (to Colgate), not to mention Nick and Tim Lappin to Brown. I am a Saint for life. If my kids were in the fray, they'd be wearing the scarlet and brown. Let's hope the Lappin's redeem themselves and Joe Lappin ends up in Canton.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Meantime, if you are looking for some good news from SLU sports, the squash team is absolutely killing it with national competition. 5-0 going into two matches today they should win. 41-4 in games. Our best player is injured and not even playing.
Here are your CSA National squash rankings:

1.Trinity College (1)
2. Harvard University (2)
3. Yale University (4)
4. St. Lawrence University (6)
5. Rochester, University of (5)
6. Franklin and Marshall College (7)
7. Princeton University (3)
8. Cornell University (8)
9. Western Ontario, University of (9)
10.Dartmouth College (10)
11. Columbia University (12)
12. Bates College (13)
13. Pennsylvania, University of (Penn) (14)
14. Naval Academy (15)
15. Brown University (16)

We have a squash team?

 

[critsports]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

We have a squash team?

Not only that we had the NCAA individual singles champion........first time ever!!!

http://www.ussquash.com/khalifa-and-sobhy-take-csa-individual-honors/

 

[Saints#1]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Yeah, I think on that 5-2 and in the 3rd, 0ur PP was pressing to much and succumbing to the pressure. Even though we were in a position where we had to score, you can't play like that.

As for tired, we had a ton of PP time last night and I think if you looked at the on-ice time of the first line and even the second line it would be way out of whack. With two game misconducts, we should have tried to roll 4 lines and use that to our advantage but we couldn't. I thought we were gassed in the third, especially our first line.

That two on one was Essery. Don't remember who the trailer was, but yeah, nothing was working last night.

As for Sexton, I thought we offered him but Clarkson offered him more. I don't remember but it's really a travesty when we lose guys like Sexton, Poapst, Gallagher (to Cornell) and Goulakas (to Colgate), not to mention Nick and Tim Lappin to Brown. I am a Saint for life. If my kids were in the fray, they'd be wearing the scarlet and brown. Let's hope the Lappin's redeem themselves and Joe Lappin ends up in Canton.

What's the story on Joe Lappin? How old is he, is this someone that we have a shot at getting? ... Would be nice to get another Lappin to SLU even though they were before my time.

 

[saintsdad]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Excellent point on the unequal ice time Got 6. Add in the facts that C'son was mugging us (sometime legally, sometimes not) for 6 periods and that Greg wore 1 red and 2 green jerseys for 2 games and it's predictable that we'd be tired. You're absolutely right about rolling 4 lines, but as SLU Fan mentioned, are we being slow getting on and off the ice, which made that real hard.

That's enough Sunday centering for me, bring on the Cats. Go Saints!

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

What's the story on Joe Lappin? How old is he, is this someone that we have a shot at getting? ... Would be nice to get another Lappin to SLU even though they were before my time.

Yes, we have a good shot. Not sure what the coaches have in mind or what they may offer. He is 19, Pete's younger son, and plays I think for South Shore in the Boston / Providence area. We could have had Nick too but we didn't go after him as hard as Brown and so he went there.

I'll just say this, I have no idea how the coaches do it. Recruiting is a science that makes my head spin. How do you offer kids, not knowing if you are going to find someone better in a month, and how do you build a team of guys that will fit in, have good chemistry. At the same time, you want everyone to have a shot at playing. I don't think there was a better recruiter ever than Joe Marsh. As an assistant, he put together the classes of 1988 and 1989 before taking over as head coach. In those 2 classes there were 5 All-American's and there would have been more if Baker wasn't injured. Not only was there team chemistry, there was an unbelievable mix of stars with solid role players.

 

[bcarlisle]

Yes, we have a good shot. Not sure what the coaches have in mind or what they may offer. He is 19, Pete's younger son, and plays I think for South Shore in the Boston / Providence area. We could have had Nick too but we didn't go after him as hard as Brown and so he went there.

I'll just say this, I have no idea how the coaches do it. Recruiting is a science that makes my head spin. How do you offer kids, not knowing if you are going to find someone better in a month, and how do you build a team of guys that will fit in, have good chemistry. At the same time, you want everyone to have a shot at playing. I don't think there was a better recruiter ever than Joe Marsh. As an assistant, he put together the classes of 1988 and 1989 before taking over as head coach. In those 2 classes there were 5 All-American's and there would have been more if Baker wasn't injured. Not only was there team chemistry, there was an unbelievable mix of stars with solid role players.

I'm curious. Go t6, When you say "what the coaches have to offer", what do they have to offer besides no extra year in the USHL or no redshirt. Presumably a free ride is a free ride if there's an athletic scholarship. Then it's chemistry, coach reputation, friend reccomendations, facilities, record at producing pros, liklihood of playing minutes off the bat, the school's academic programs and reputation, proximity to home. But those factors are mostly out of the recruiter's control --so it becomes a sales job.

Is there anything else tangible that makes up "the offer"? Presumably, using Sexton as an example, he's from Ottawa or wherever Randy is working in the NHL. Distance can't be an issue. He couldn't have wanted to go to SLU his whole life and then decided he wanted engineering. Would we ever offer half an athletic scholarship?

Same question with Lappin. I'm not sure money is an issue there but we must have matched Brown monetarily. Granted, we can't match them for academic reputation or loose women. But they are never really very good. Nobody at the school cares about hockey and I'm pretty sure the city of Providence stores cadavers at Meehan. How do we lose those?

 

[critsports]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

I'm curious. Go t6, When you say "what the coaches have to offer", what do they have to offer besides no extra year in the USHL or no redshirt. Presumably a free ride is a free ride if there's an athletic scholarship. Then it's chemistry, coach reputation, friend reccomendations, facilities, record at producing pros, liklihood of playing minutes off the bat, the school's academic programs and reputation, proximity to home. But those factors are mostly out of the recruiter's control --so it becomes a sales job.

Is there anything else tangible that makes up "the offer"? Presumably, using Sexton as an example, he's from Ottawa or wherever Randy is working in the NHL. Distance can't be an issue. He couldn't have wanted to go to SLU his whole life and then decided he wanted engineering. Would we ever offer half an athletic scholarship?

Same question with Lappin. I'm not sure money is an issue there but we must have matched Brown monetarily. Granted, we can't match them for academic reputation or loose women. But they are never really very good. Nobody at the school cares about hockey and I'm pretty sure the city of Providence stores cadavers at Meehan. How do we lose those?

Got6 knows more than any of us but I do believe there are partial scholarships.
I was also told we did not pursue Nick Lappin very aggressively and I could be mistaken but I think I remember hearing someone say we never had him up to campus. Purportedly Nick Lappin also wanted an "Ivy" education/school, although Leckster and I have talked about if so....why Brown when supposedly Harvard offered.

PS With no crowds in Meehan it is cold enough in there to keep cadavers.

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Presumably a free ride is a free ride if there's an athletic scholarship.

No. In college hockey there are only 18 total athletic scholarships for a team a school can offer. My understanding, is that in many instances these scholarships are broken up. In other words a school may offer a player a two year scholarship for four years. So as you can see, someone may be offered a 1,2,3 or 4 year athletic scholarship offer over 4 years.

Not all athletic scholarships are created equal.

 

[Muskieman]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

I'm curious. Go t6, When you say "what the coaches have to offer", what do they have to offer besides no extra year in the USHL or no redshirt. Presumably a free ride is a free ride if there's an athletic scholarship. Then it's chemistry, coach reputation, friend reccomendations, facilities, record at producing pros, liklihood of playing minutes off the bat, the school's academic programs and reputation, proximity to home. But those factors are mostly out of the recruiter's control --so it becomes a sales job.

Is there anything else tangible that makes up "the offer"? Presumably, using Sexton as an example, he's from Ottawa or wherever Randy is working in the NHL. Distance can't be an issue. He couldn't have wanted to go to SLU his whole life and then decided he wanted engineering. Would we ever offer half an athletic scholarship?

Same question with Lappin. I'm not sure money is an issue there but we must have matched Brown monetarily. Granted, we can't match them for academic reputation or loose women. But they are never really very good. Nobody at the school cares about hockey and I'm pretty sure the city of Providence stores cadavers at Meehan. How do we lose those?

Joe decided to retire after the end of the previous season to Nick entering college. I'm quite certain that Joe did not want any farewell tours so who was going to be Nick's Head Coach his first year was uncertain for an extended period and this might have played into Nick's decision. As for Ben Sexton, his Dad got his Masters at CCT and that might have played a role in Ben's decision to go there. We'll never really know, but being a recruiter has got to be a tough job with many ups and downs.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

I'm curious. Go t6, When you say "what the coaches have to offer", what do they have to offer besides no extra year in the USHL or no redshirt. Presumably a free ride is a free ride if there's an athletic scholarship. Then it's chemistry, coach reputation, friend reccomendations, facilities, record at producing pros, liklihood of playing minutes off the bat, the school's academic programs and reputation, proximity to home. But those factors are mostly out of the recruiter's control --so it becomes a sales job.

Is there anything else tangible that makes up "the offer"? Presumably, using Sexton as an example, he's from Ottawa or wherever Randy is working in the NHL. Distance can't be an issue. He couldn't have wanted to go to SLU his whole life and then decided he wanted engineering. Would we ever offer half an athletic scholarship?

Same question with Lappin. I'm not sure money is an issue there but we must have matched Brown monetarily. Granted, we can't match them for academic reputation or loose women. But they are never really very good. Nobody at the school cares about hockey and I'm pretty sure the city of Providence stores cadavers at Meehan. How do we lose those?

Yes, this question has been answered below. Very few players get a full 4 year deal. Many get 3, 2 or 1 years of scholarship money and some come without any promise of money. Kyle Rank for instance was a walk-on that ended up getting a scholarship. Ditto I think for the Raley's. Even Mike McKenzie (the Clarkson Killer was only a two for four I believe.

I do not purport to know Pete Lappin's financial situation. I don't know what he is paying to Brown, if anything. In the case of Nick Lappin, I heard directly from his father that it was a situation of Brown just showed more interest and kept calling and brought him to campus when we did not. For many players, it is important to be wanted. Not sure if SLU didn't pursue him because of things going on with Joe's health, had other guys in the pipeline ahead of him, or just wasn't certain on him. Same thing with Ben Sexton. I sort of remember a feeling of disappointment and shock when Sexton committed to Clarkson. Not sure if he got more money or just suffered a head blow as a child that explains this unexplainable decision.

What makes this even more complex is that many guys can qualify for financial aid without scholarship money. At a place like Brown with need blind financial aid, that's the only money you are going to get unless you get another named scholarship of which there are plenty. For example, the scholarship goes to the "best right wing hockey player from the greater Chicago area" .

I would bet less than 6 guys are full 4 year guys on the roster. Just a guess. It's not something that should be discussed in public in my opinion.

I'm not saying this to flame, but there are certain schools that I couldn't even consider playing if I were in that position. Not saying anything about the education, but no way in hell I'd go to Clarkson, Colgate, Q-Pac or Brown all for different reasons. Also, Sexton I believe was a George Roll recruit...it is a crap shoot with a coaching change. There are guys like Nic Vangog that are not even on the roster anymore with the regime change in Canton.

 

[slu fan]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Seems as if Kyle Rank was at SLU to play golf to start with and had played high school hockey. Tried out for the hockey team and turned out to be a quality player.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Seems as if Kyle Rank was at SLU to play golf to start with and had played high school hockey. Tried out for the hockey team and turned out to be a quality player.

Well, yes, Rank was a bit of a different circumstance. He was on the SLU staff radar before he enrolled in college and did his first year at some school in Michigan I think. They couldn't give him a scholarship for hockey that would permit him to continue to play golf so he was a straight walk on until he was clear of golf and then he got full scholarship.

To say he turned out to be a quality player is an understatement. He was an outstanding defensive forward but his real impact was as a leader in the room. He was as competitive as the come and a favorite in so many ways. He was a quintessential Joe Marsh player.

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

According to Chris Heisenberg's website, Nick Lappin committed on May 18,2011: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...mTdGloMlVH***GNldvRHR3aG9naW82cEE&hl=en&gid=1

The second half of that season is when Joe first started to battle his throat disorder: http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20110128/SPORTS03/301289972/

Needless to say the Saints coaching staff was stretched thin and short handed during this timeframe. I don't know what if any role this played, but I'm sure contact with potential recruits was much harder. Also something to consider is what SLU could offer Lappin on the scholarship front. I have no idea what they did or didn't. If memory serves me, I heard at one point that Lappin wanted to go to an Ivy school. So as much as we may have tried or offered it's possible it just wasn't in the cards.

As for Ben Sexton, if you again look at Heisenberg, you'll see that he committed on April 28, 2008 to Clarkson: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...THefMmmTcHEtUlAzb3VsWTQwUUQ0TEV0WjNrRmc&gid=1

That was a ways out before he would end up going to the school. Years ago, SLU was very leery to commit to players years and years before they could enroll in the school. While you may land a great recruit by offering so early, you can also get a big bust if a player doesn't improve and grow as predicted. For years, SLU got players a year or maybe two before they enrolled in the school. Maybe one of the best late gets was Gusto.

Anyway, again, it's hard to say what SLU did or did not offer scholarship wise and what Clarkson offered.

As Coach Chris Wells once told me years ago, recruiting is a lot like gambling. Sometimes your sure hands don't work out and sometimes those hands that you think aren't great do.

 

[NorthCountrySaint]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

I agree with everything you posted ... Welcome to USCHO Fan Forum, good to see another Saints fan join us here ... Glad to have you!

Thank you ... Just getting into college hockey and love the atmosphere it brings. Plus, SLU is a classy place with classy people. I do hope the Saints fix their balance problem, meaning that they need more than just one line in order to score. Like it or not, that's what carried Clarkson this weekend. They had five different scorers in the first game and four different player on Saturday.

On to Vermont!! Go Saints!!

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

According to Chris Heisenberg's website, Nick Lappin committed on May 18,2011: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...mTdGloMlVH***GNldvRHR3aG9naW82cEE&hl=en&gid=1

The second half of that season is when Joe first started to battle his throat disorder: http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20110128/SPORTS03/301289972/

Needless to say the Saints coaching staff was stretched thin and short handed during this timeframe. I don't know what if any role this played, but I'm sure contact with potential recruits was much harder. Also something to consider is what SLU could offer Lappin on the scholarship front. I have no idea what they did or didn't. If memory serves me, I heard at one point that Lappin wanted to go to an Ivy school. So as much as we may have tried or offered it's possible it just wasn't in the cards.

As for Ben Sexton, if you again look at Heisenberg, you'll see that he committed on April 28, 2008 to Clarkson: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...THefMmmTcHEtUlAzb3VsWTQwUUQ0TEV0WjNrRmc&gid=1

That was a ways out before he would end up going to the school. Years ago, SLU was very leery to commit to players years and years before they could enroll in the school. While you may land a great recruit by offering so early, you can also get a big bust if a player doesn't improve and grow as predicted. For years, SLU got players a year or maybe two before they enrolled in the school. Maybe one of the best late gets was Gusto.

Anyway, again, it's hard to say what SLU did or did not offer scholarship wise and what Clarkson offered.

As Coach Chris Wells once told me years ago, recruiting is a lot like gambling. Sometimes your sure hands don't work out and sometimes those hands that you think aren't great do.

All Correct. I think your assumptions are right that SLU historically did not offer kids more than 2 years away, and probably wouldn't break that rule for Sexton. Plus, they may have figured they didn't have to work as hard for a player like that because with the legacy they probably felt they had an advantage.

SLU's staff was shorthanded during that stretch and that is one of the reasons the current Sophomore class is a bit on the light side. I'd imagine that had a lot to do with how hard we went after certain guys. Even Carvy was struggling to understand how we could lose a player like Lappin to Brown....but the general answer was along the lines of "Brown went after him hard and we didn't" for whatever reason....most likely a staff stretched thin.

One of the many reasons I detest BC is they will commit players and then chuck them if they find something they want more. That lacks integrity in my opinion. Cripes, I think they even did that to Joe Marsh many moons ago. It is a gamble. One of my favorite stories was Joe Day was signed and sealed to Michigan and then that ******* Red Berenson said he wasn't a D1 player. So he took a visit to SLU, sat with me in the press box and I filled his ear about why he should be a Saint and the rest is history. Greg Carey just passed Day in the record books for career goals or points (one or the other) at Dartmouth this year. Not bad for a guy that wasn't a D1 player. Day was probably the most competitive player I have ever known, tough, quick and an excellent player at both ends of the ice.

Beyond that, champion teams are generally the result of depth and solid role players beyond the elite players. The obvious example of that is the 1980 Olympic team. But even looking at SLU in 1988, I don't believe the Lappins, Baker and Day could have got us to Lake Placid without a very underrated 3rd line in Dave Witherell, Doug Murray and Mike Pelletier, or a 4th line of Ball, Consorte and Pritchard. At least 5 of those guys would be top 2 line players at most schools at the time and were at SLU later in their careers. Murray and Consorte were standouts in the ECAC's the next season and Pritch went on to be a 60 point scorer in at least two seasons. For us to be in that position again, it will be finding scoring and depth on the 3rd and 4th line. I believe there are freshmen that can do that on our roster but need more experience.

 

[Saints#1]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Thank you ... Just getting into college hockey and love the atmosphere it brings. Plus, SLU is a classy place with classy people. I do hope the Saints fix their balance problem, meaning that they need more than just one line in order to score. Like it or not, that's what carried Clarkson this weekend. They had five different scorers in the first game and four different player on Saturday.

On to Vermont!! Go Saints!!

Well, according to the Clarkson Pep Band we are not classy (I couldn't stand those arrogant p***** before and after this weekend I couldn't stand them even more) ... We all know better than that and especially considering the source we can take that with a grain of salt!