solution to ECAC-West problem?

[NUProf]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Actually in most of the above examples these programs went belly up from causes that had nothing to do with Hockey. Title 9, and AD's making financial decisions that had nothing to do with on Ice or Hockey.
My point was that Division III hockey is in danger while division I hockey is not.
ACHA is closing the gap with Div III hockey. Hockey in general appeals to a hard core segment of which alum are the die hards. Sadly I believe if ECAC West goes by by that this is a reflection on the bigger picture.

Excuse me ... the issues in the ECAC West are exactly the same kinds of issues that those discontinued DI programs faced. Did you realize that there are more DIII programs than DI programs, and DIII has added the following programs in recent years - Adrian, Neumann, Manhattanville, Utica, University of New England, Westfield State, Becker, and Morrisville. Lost programs during the same period: Scranton, LVC, and MCLA. That's growth, not shrinkage. In the last three years we have added Becker, UNE, and Westfield. The ECAC West is not in trouble for "hockey reasons" it's what you have cited as "other reasons"

 

[hawk]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Mapquest Math

Manhattanville (Playland) to Boston - 187.76 miles (not bad)

Neumann (Aston, PA) to Boston - 332.09 miles

Elmira to Boston - 360.93 miles

I picked Boston because a lot of D3 teams are close by. I don't know why everyone is down on Manhattanville because the driving distance to play a game there is reasonable provided there is not slow trafic in CT. Neumann was actually closer than Elmira by about 30 miles, however, looking at cost along I can not see any Boston/ME/NH/VT teams going to thoes locations. I not sure what the best solution is for the ECAC West.

I just curious if anyone knows the estimated cost for a team to drive down to Elmira/Neumann and stay overnight (say driving 350+- miles one way)?

 

[UCBadger]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

We might just be getting a bit ahead of ourselves, here.

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[joecct]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

now that a Canadian university Simon Fraser is accepted in NCAA perhaps a few universities in ontaro and quebec will jump in to give ECAC west 7 teams failing that if there is no chance for the 4 remaining teams to get a tournament bid..after manhattenville takes their "puck" and goes..saving ALL that awful trip to RYE ..maybe the remaining schools will close up their programs and play volleyball..surely something will be done before that happens

CIS teams are coming in at D-II not D-III. Not a solution to the problem.

I think we're talking in circles. Everything, I think, hinges on the interlock and D-II games counting.

 

[NUProf]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

CIS teams are coming in at D-II not D-III. Not a solution to the problem.

I think we're talking in circles. Everything, I think, hinges on the interlock and D-II games counting.

Bingo!

If the answer to either of those is no, we are likely to see a massive restructuring of Conference affiliations in the East

Hard to predict what will happen

 

[mtuck20]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Thinking WAY outside the box.......Given the cost, the closing gap on talent level, and basic NCAA ignorance, why don't we all just move to the ACHA? Play for a true National champ, coast to coast, and have many many many more schools to meet up with for the Playoffs. I'm already worried about the Southwest getting ticked about the Eastern bias. And before you dismiss it, just think about it for a minute. Maybe D-III hockey doesn't need to join the ACHA, but maybe they can create their own system. Hockey is unique with its regionalism. What D-III really needs is a system that caters to its own needs. Maybe they need to break away.

 

[cooperalls]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

I think that this maybe the smartest post ever posted on this subject. Exactly have the people in the hockey world set up and tell the NCAA that this is how hockey is going to be run and then a United States Collegiate Hockey Association can be born and then they there are more opportunities for teams to compete Regionally and for a true National Championship.

Thinking WAY outside the box.......Given the cost, the closing gap on talent level, and basic NCAA ignorance, why don't we all just move to the ACHA? Play for a true National champ, coast to coast, and have many many many more schools to meet up with for the Playoffs. I'm already worried about the Southwest getting ticked about the Eastern bias. And before you dismiss it, just think about it for a minute. Maybe D-III hockey doesn't need to join the ACHA, but maybe they can create their own system. Hockey is unique with its regionalism. What D-III really needs is a system that caters to its own needs. Maybe they need to break away.

 

[nagwell]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

a new conference would probably require schools to pony up
league fees to operate and publicize the league and games.
operating expenses will get expensive, officiating will be an
opportunity for more to come on board with this but what level
of ability will you get? The better officials aren't going to give up
NCAA games for these games unless money is good.
I think it will be hard for schools to justify a big expense of operating a hockey program outside the beloved NCAA and will it require
the women's programs to move as well?
The lure of an NCAA tournament /Championship is still a crowning
acheivement. NAIA has perception problems as does the NIT basketball
tournament. Seperate issue I undestand but the additional costs
to belong is not a real pressing issue in the grand scheme of things.
A select few will not make this a reality.

 

[jconnor]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Just speculation BUT, talking last night, it seems that SUNY IT in Utica is building a hockey rink, a hockey program. Also a "rumor" that Morrisville is interested in joining the ECAC-W?
IF, this could happen, and M'Ville stays, this would give us the 7 teams needed for an AQ. It also makes for some interesting games/rivalries.
How about Cortland? What are the rules for SUNYAC Teams playing outside of SUNY?
Elimira-Cortland- Morrisville-Utica(x2)-Hobart= all between 1 and 2 1/2 hr drive time.
M'Ville would be the ODD Ball

 

[UCBadger]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Just speculation BUT, talking last night, it seems that SUNY IT in Utica is building a hockey rink, a hockey program. Also a "rumor" that Morrisville is interested in joining the ECAC-W?
IF, this could happen, and M'Ville stays, this would give us the 7 teams needed for an AQ. It also makes for some interesting games/rivalries.
How about Cortland? What are the rules for SUNYAC Teams playing outside of SUNY?
Elimira-Cortland- Morrisville-Utica(x2)-Hobart= all between 1 and 2 1/2 hr drive time.
M'Ville would be the ODD Ball

Cortland is a full member of the SUNYAC and so must play hockey in the SUNYAC league; SunyIT and Morrisville are not. The latest plans I have seen show no ice at the new field house across town, so hockey may have been shelved at SunyIT.

 

[norm1909]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

.... The latest plans I have seen show no ice at the new field house across town, so hockey may have been shelved at SunyIT.

Any construction at SUNY-IT, would have to pass through the State of New York Dormitory Authority (funding), as of now, there are no arena/rink RFP (request for proposals) for SUNY-IT. Though they are recieving $30 million in new construction - $20 million of which is for a new field house.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Just speculation BUT, talking last night, it seems that SUNY IT in Utica is building a hockey rink, a hockey program. Also a "rumor" that Morrisville is interested in joining the ECAC-W?
IF, this could happen, and M'Ville stays, this would give us the 7 teams needed for an AQ. It also makes for some interesting games/rivalries.
How about Cortland? What are the rules for SUNYAC Teams playing outside of SUNY?

You're basing this on very old information, all of which was discussed in a recent thread.

Morrisville is not moving anywhere. When the school pulled out of the SUNYAC to join NEAC, the hockey team (and field hockey) had no place to go. At that time, they looked at all options including joining the ECAC West. However, the SUNYAC changed their bylaws, and allowed Morrisville's men's ice hockey and field hockey teams to be affiliated members of SUNYAC. Problem solved, and Morrisville has no desire to change conferences.

SUNYIT was talking about getting money for a major field house project which was to include an ice rink. However, according to their website, ground has been broken for this project, but it no longer mentions an ice rink. I think that scenario is dead.

SUNYAC schools absolutely, positively cannot play outside the SUNYAC if the conference sponsors that sport. Otherwise, the whole school has to pull out of SUNYAC, and there is no way the rest of the school's athletic department will ever accept doing that just to accomodate hockey.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

However, before the puck was dropped on that magical first probationary season, RIT made their exit. That is what started the current downhill track.

Oh, sure, blame us!

Though maybe that points to the solution -- ECAC West teams could join former compatriots Canisius, Mercyhurst, Niagara, Union, and RIT in D-I.


Powers &8^]

 

[Derek Dunning]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Oh, sure, blame us!

Though maybe that points to the solution -- ECAC West teams could join former compatriots Canisius, Mercyhurst, Niagara, Union, and RIT in D-I.


Powers &8^]

The current ECAC West schools probably A. dont have the resources B. Aren't as large as RIT C. Don't care for moving to D-I when they can't offer athletic scholarships and have a chance at being competitive in D-I when they could compete for the national title in D-III.

 

[XCTiger]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

The current ECAC West schools probably A. dont have the resources B. Aren't as large as RIT C. Don't care for moving to D-I when they can't offer athletic scholarships and have a chance at being competitive in D-I when they could compete for the national title in D-III.

I think the post from LtPowers was intended as tongue in cheek. The points in your response are right on though. I would also add that if they did want/could afford to make that move, where the heck would they play???? There isn't any room for them in any of the DI leagues. Joining up with UAH to reprise the CHA isn't any better than staying in the ECAC-W and at least being able to have a chance at a post-season title.

I will say this though, if the rest of the eastern teams don't put their own parochial interests aside and help these 5 schools, then they are almost certain to die. Without the possibility of post-season, recruiting will get progressively more and more difficult. The expense of travel to all the away games they'll have to schedule will stress their budgets, and the lack of home games (not getting return visits from the teams that will schedule them) will diminish fan support. Their programs will progressively weaken and they will disappear.

Maybe it's just my pi**y mood today, but I think that the rest of the leagues out there will poach what they want (i.e., Manhattanville) to keep themselves strong. The response to the rest will be "Hey, sucks to be you", and 4 proud and successful programs will be left to wither and die.

I truly hope that I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[Derek Dunning]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

I will say this though, if the rest of the eastern teams don't put their own parochial interests aside and help these 5 schools, then they are almost certain to die. Without the possibility of post-season, recruiting will get progressively more and more difficult. The expense of travel to all the away games they'll have to schedule will stress their budgets, and the lack of home games (not getting return visits from the teams that will schedule them) will diminish fan support. Their programs will progressively weaken and they will disappear.

Maybe it's just my pi**y mood today, but I think that the rest of the leagues out there will poach what they want (i.e., Manhattanville) to keep themselves strong. The response to the rest will be "Hey, sucks to be you", and 4 proud and successful programs will be left to wither and die.

I truly hope that I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

I don't think you're far off at all.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Whatever happens to the ECAC-W, I do believe that the program at Elmira has a lot of history behind it, and hockey is a part of the school's tradition (which, as we recently discussed, is an important thing to the school). It might not be easy, but I foresee the Elmira program surviving, even if it has to be as an independant...


Although that might be a biased prediction

 

[NUProf]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

I think the post from LtPowers was intended as tongue in cheek.

I hope they were, because my blame RIT comment was TIC (although I forgot to bring out a smilie )

I hope that something can be done to make the situation better for the remaining ECAC West teams - When the MASCAC autobid goes online, they are going to have a tough situation to deal with. Losing all those teams would hurt everybody.

 

[CornwallAce]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Officials - If the majority of schools were on board with this, then the officials wouldn't have many games to officiate on the NCAA level.

I'd have to assume that ACHA budgets for hockey are smaller than NCAA D3 budgets. If D3 schools had the desire and want, they could make this happen. But remember, all sports are supposed to be for the student athletes. So if a move to a new independent league, more aligned with ACHA than with NCAA would give more teams the opportunity to play more opponents and give more to the student athletes, it might be a really good idea.
Lure of an NCAA crown -I was going to say a larger pool of teams in a combined ACHA/New League format might mean more, a tougher battle to the championship, but then again, did the Stanley Cup mean less when there were only 6 teams? Are the NE-10 teams apathetic about winning that championship?

On a side question - Would there be any possibility of the SUNYAC throwing in another by-law and granting hockey admission to Hobart, Utica and Elmira?

a new conference would probably require schools to pony up
league fees to operate and publicize the league and games.
operating expenses will get expensive, officiating will be an
opportunity for more to come on board with this but what level
of ability will you get? The better officials aren't going to give up
NCAA games for these games unless money is good.
I think it will be hard for schools to justify a big expense of operating a hockey program outside the beloved NCAA and will it require
the women's programs to move as well?
The lure of an NCAA tournament /Championship is still a crowning
acheivement. NAIA has perception problems as does the NIT basketball
tournament. Seperate issue I undestand but the additional costs
to belong is not a real pressing issue in the grand scheme of things.
A select few will not make this a reality.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

On a side question - Would there be any possibility of the SUNYAC throwing in another by-law and granting hockey admission to Hobart, Utica and Elmira?

Not a chance.