solution to ECAC-West problem?

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

What is the point, Russell?

I think the point is that the ECAC-East doesn't want (or need) Manhattanville.

Exactly. My point was the ECAC East was not begging Manhattanville to join like the original poster stated. That's what I was disputing.

 

[Dyce]

Re: Is there a solution??

Re: Is there a solution??

Five or six teams...didn't matter once the MASCAC got its AQ.

Our only hope was to add another teams but since that doesn't seem like it has a chance at happening, we were screwed long before LVC dropped.

They dropped the ball when they had the chance to add Adrian last year and now the ECAC West is dwindling towards irrelevant status.

The second paragraph here is really important, because it correctly asserts that this isn't a situation that became urgent with the loss of LVC. For as long as there's been a Pool B, the ECAC-W has relied on the presence of "warm bodies" provided by schools in non-competitive, non-AQ conferences to sustain its ticket to the show. Without the serendipitous timing of the MASCAC's formation relative to the MCHA's AQ, this would've come to a head a year ago. If the MCHA's newest programs had gone varsity a few years earlier, the conversation would've happened then.

As has been stated elsewhere, the ECAC itself is not and was never proactive on this issue. It exists to give groups of teams that want to play together an affiliation, a name, and a tournament; it's up to the member schools themselves to take the initiative to fix things about their situations that they don't like. In this light, either the core institutions of the conference have been ignoring a very present problem for a very long time, or they've been trying to fix it for a very long time with no success. Either way, the sheer length of the conference's instability without any movement in the right direction bodes ill for its potential to pull off anything like a quick fix now.

 

[hockeylongtimer]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

now that a Canadian university Simon Fraser is accepted in NCAA perhaps a few universities in ontaro and quebec will jump in to give ECAC west 7 teams failing that if there is no chance for the 4 remaining teams to get a tournament bid..after manhattenville takes their "puck" and goes..saving ALL that awful trip to RYE ..maybe the remaining schools will close up their programs and play volleyball..surely something will be done before that happens

 

[Dyce]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

now that a Canadian university Simon Fraser is accepted in NCAA perhaps a few universities in ontaro and quebec will jump in to give ECAC west 7 teams failing that if there is no chance for the 4 remaining teams to get a tournament bid..after manhattenville takes their "puck" and goes..saving ALL that awful trip to RYE ..maybe the remaining schools will close up their programs and play volleyball..surely something will be done before that happens

It's like your post is tapping into my dreams Unfortunately, of course, when it comes to Quebec's CIS members (not as familiar with Ontario), we're almost universally talking about enrollments ranging between large and really, really large - if they went NCAA, it wouldn't be in DIII. Actually, Bishop's is one that I know is pretty teeny, but their location way the hell over in Sherbrooke means they wouldn't be looking to join the West. And yeah, I know you were probably tongue-in-cheek here, but my Stingers facing off against my Cardinals at the outset of this season remains one of my hockey high-points, even as embarrassing as it turned out for Concordia...dang 25-game schedule.

 

[NUProf]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Actually, the ECAC West was on the upswing when LVC joined. For a brief moment they had 7 teams - the magic number. However, before the puck was dropped on that magical first probationary season, RIT made their exit. That is what started the current downhill track. The best thing that could happen to the ECAC West right now is a return to the old system in which there were only a couple of autobids and a plethora of at large bids.

Perhaps if the interlock is dissolved, we might see Neumann and Elmira join the MCHA (if they will take them), Utica and Hobart to the ECAC East as travel partners and Manhattanville to the ECAC NE. I have no idea if that makes any sense, but it does give everybody a destination.

 

[The Real Georgia Peach]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

If we assume that the Interlock dies, and that Utica/Hobart gets an invite to ECAC-E, could Elmira/M'ville become DIII Independents? Scheduling would be difficult,(maybe), but they could keep their rivalry games, Oswego, Plattsburgh, etc. and still be eligible for NCAA tournament at season's end.... Just thinking outside the box.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

If we assume that the Interlock dies, and that Utica/Hobart gets an invite to ECAC-E, could Elmira/M'ville become DIII Independents? Scheduling would be difficult,(maybe), but they could keep their rivalry games, Oswego, Plattsburgh, etc. and still be eligible for NCAA tournament at season's end.... Just thinking outside the box.

The problem would be (as stated somewhere in the forum) that the Plattsburgh's and Oswego's don't have much desire to make some of these trips. Given the cost of travel, and budget constraints, that isn't likely to change in the near future.

 

[ECACST]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

now that a Canadian university Simon Fraser is accepted in NCAA perhaps a few universities in ontaro and quebec will jump in to give ECAC west 7 teams failing that if there is no chance for the 4 remaining teams to get a tournament bid..after manhattenville takes their "puck" and goes..saving ALL that awful trip to RYE ..maybe the remaining schools will close up their programs and play volleyball..surely something will be done before that happens

I think the awful trip might be the other way unless you are looking for Gas Station Subs and McDonalds as your choice of fine dining. Rye although not in the upstate depressed drink yourself to death no economic development snow belt has one of the highest per capita income levels uniquely nestled between the Lower Hudson River and the Sound Shore of Long Island. Less than 30 miles from NYC. Certainly you have made the trip from Albany to Plattsburgh where you can't find anything for 125 miles but Moose. Rye Playland was the Practice Facility for the New York Rangers for 20 plus years till they were able to build a facility to include both the Nicks and the Rangers on the same location as they are owened by the same. Geez if I had a choice of driving my truck into a tree with my McDee's# 1 in the havens you speak of and playing my games down in god forsaken Rye I would go with your choice.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Perhaps if the interlock is dissolved, we might see Neumann and Elmira join the MCHA (if they will take them), Utica and Hobart to the ECAC East as travel partners and Manhattanville to the ECAC NE. I have no idea if that makes any sense, but it does give everybody a destination.

The NE wouldn't take Manhattanville. Competitively, Manhattanville would destroy the NE, and the NE philosophy in recruiting and the like are a bit more laid back, and Manhattanville definitely is not. It would not be a good match.

Having teams join the MCHA is an intriguing idea. I never thought of that one. Travel could be an issue in some cases, but would the MCHA want more teams?

 

[Dyce]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

I think the awful trip might be the other way unless you are looking for Gas Station Subs and McDonalds as your choice of fine dining. Rye although not in the upstate depressed drink yourself to death no economic development snow belt has one of the highest per capita income levels uniquely nestled between the Lower Hudson River and the Sound Shore of Long Island. Less than 30 miles from NYC. Certainly you have made the trip from Albany to Plattsburgh where you can't find anything for 125 miles but Moose. Rye Playland was the Practice Facility for the New York Rangers for 20 plus years till they were able to build a facility to include both the Nicks and the Rangers on the same location as they are owened by the same. Geez if I had a choice of driving my truck into a tree with my McDee's# 1 in the havens you speak of and playing my games down in god forsaken Rye I would go with your choice.

I'm really gonna go out on a limb here and guess the poster in question was talking about the congestion and length of the trip to Rye for the rest of the ECAC-W teams relative to that among themselves, rather than either extolling the merits of visiting "moose country" or deriding the quality of Rye's hockey facilities/restaurants/school system/recycling program/etc. And for the record, we have an Applebee's now, too. Baby steps.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

The NE wouldn't take Manhattanville. Competitively, Manhattanville would destroy the NE, and the NE philosophy in recruiting and the like are a bit more laid back, and Manhattanville definitely is not. It would not be a good match.

Having teams join the MCHA is an intriguing idea. I never thought of that one. Travel could be an issue in some cases, but would the MCHA want more teams?

Curry and Wentworth are more like Mahattanville than the rest of the ECAC-NE and might consider it.

 

[altazo]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Having teams join the MCHA is an intriguing idea. I never thought of that one. Travel could be an issue in some cases, but would the MCHA want more teams?

Imagine Neumann traveling to Finlandia, or vice versa. That's +-1,100 miles.

 

[pierre maguire]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Which brings me back to the point I made a couple weeks back....does anyone think the possibility of Neumann having to fold is a possibility now? If the West becomes irrelevant and teams start jumping ship(or trying to), Neumann will be left out on an island with no where to go.

 

[NUProf]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Imagine Neumann traveling to Finlandia, or vice versa. That's +-1,100 miles.

I figured it would be something awful, but they could design an unbalanced schedule in which they'd only have to make that trip every other year. Just a random thought. I'd hate to see any more programs lost. Another possibility would be for some of the PA schools which support ACHA programs as though they were varsity programs to move them to NCAA. Scranton others?

 

[Jumbolaya]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

To me, the only real feasible solution, at least for the short term, is for the ECAC to shuffle up the geographic divisions a bit to balance out the West and qualify it for an autobid. What would really help this process is for two of the D2 schools to move their athletic programs to D3 status, giving the ECAC a few more cards in the deck to shuffle. I am specifically thinking of St. Mike's and St. Anselm, who already reside in the ECAC East, and in many respects would be better served as institutions by leaving the D2 Northeast 10, a conference in which they are not particularly competitive in most sports. Indeed, here is an article discussing how St. Mike's and Anselm are the only two NE-10 members who limit their athletic scholarships to basketball only. In D3, the Commonwealth or Pilgrim Conferences would seem to be logical fits as overall, non-hockey homes.

Should the St. Mike's and Anselm move come to fruition, the ECAC would also have the opportunity to balance off the strengths of the divisions a bit (though deciding who goes to the West is still thorny). As others have mentioned, I really don't know what kind of authority, if any, the ECAC has over its hockey playing members, and this is a huge fly in the ointment. But from the standpoint of what would be ideal for D3 hockey, this seems to be a good compromise.

 

[ECACST]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

I figured it would be something awful, but they could design an unbalanced schedule in which they'd only have to make that trip every other year. Just a random thought. I'd hate to see any more programs lost. Another possibility would be for some of the PA schools which support ACHA programs as though they were varsity programs to move them to NCAA. Scranton others?

NCAA Div III Hockey has a cult like following at best. The schools who took the hit and went ACHA are probably enjoying quite the financial benefit by not supporting the NCAA which already treats Division III hockey like a step child. This is the handwriting on the wall for the ECAC West and eventually there could come a time when Division III hockey in general is played in one small corner of 2 states further taking it to its cult state of affairs. While Division I hockey continues to thrive division III is nailing its own fate when parody seems fleeting and distance of travel grows. I believe this is a Canary in the cave.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

I think the awful trip might be the other way unless you are looking for Gas Station Subs and McDonalds as your choice of fine dining. Rye although not in the upstate depressed drink yourself to death no economic development snow belt has one of the highest per capita income levels uniquely nestled between the Lower Hudson River and the Sound Shore of Long Island. Less than 30 miles from NYC. Certainly you have made the trip from Albany to Plattsburgh where you can't find anything for 125 miles but Moose. Rye Playland was the Practice Facility for the New York Rangers for 20 plus years till they were able to build a facility to include both the Nicks and the Rangers on the same location as they are owened by the same. Geez if I had a choice of driving my truck into a tree with my McDee's# 1 in the havens you speak of and playing my games down in god forsaken Rye I would go with your choice.

This post is the best example of why there should be a written and practical test before anyone can buy a computer, secure a high speed connection, register on a website and post their thoughts for the world to read in perpetuity.....

 

[Hammer]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

NCAA Div III Hockey has a cult like following at best. The schools who took the hit and went ACHA are probably enjoying quite the financial benefit by not supporting the NCAA which already treats Division III hockey like a step child. This is the handwriting on the wall for the ECAC West and eventually there could come a time when Division III hockey in general is played in one small corner of 2 states further taking it to its cult state of affairs. While Division I hockey continues to thrive division III is nailing its own fate when parody seems fleeting and distance of travel grows. I believe this is a Canary in the cave.

D-1 hockey continues to thrive? Really? I guess Wayne State, Fairfield, Iona, and Findlay folding in the last decade, and the whole Bowling Green issue this past summer, well, those were all just figments of my imagination.

 

[ECACST]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

D-1 hockey continues to thrive? Really? I guess Wayne State, Fairfield, Iona, and Findlay folding in the last decade, and the whole Bowling Green issue this past summer, well, those were all just figments of my imagination.

Actually in most of the above examples these programs went belly up from causes that had nothing to do with Hockey. Title 9, and AD's making financial decisions that had nothing to do with on Ice or Hockey.
My point was that Division III hockey is in danger while division I hockey is not.
ACHA is closing the gap with Div III hockey. Hockey in general appeals to a hard core segment of which alum are the die hards. Sadly I believe if ECAC West goes by by that this is a reflection on the bigger picture.

 

[Hammer]

Re: solution to ECAC-West problem?

Well, I'll say this: there isn't exactly a line around the block for teams waiting to build arenas and start programs on the D-1 side, and there's a few more in trouble. Unless we are adding programs instead of losing them, you can't say that hockey is thriving by any means. Alabama-Huntsville is going to be in real trouble in a year or two if they don't find a conference. A true BTHC (everyone make yucky faces here) would exacerbate the problem with the smaller schools in Michigan that play D-1 as well.

I wouldn't call Division 1 hockey a "thriving" sport by any means, not when you're losing more teams than you're adding over the past decade. "Treading water at best" is more like it.