Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

[scsutommyboy]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

I remember hearing former Beaver Andrew Murray, who is now with Columbus, say once that college was the perfect route for him. You actually get to work on things in practice and then try to put them to use in a game. In Juniors, it seemed like you were always on the bus or in a game situation, so you had very little time to "hone your skills". Major Juniors would have been pretty much the same thing.

I think it just comes to each individual person. Some people are not meant for college and at least in hockey people have a choice. In Basketball and Football I think many more people are not meant for college but go because it is the only way they can make it to the pro's. Don't get me wrong I don't think there is anything wrong with a player going to a school for two years and then signing a pro contract if they are good enough. I just think in hockey most guys that do that also actually go to class and do well in school while they are there. I don't think that is the case with many basketball and Football players.

 

[bearsFan93]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

RedFreak and Stauber, I completely agree with your comments regarding the quality of play in the NCAA. I dislike professional sports, and rarely watch them. NCAA hockey is about the passion, the noise, the loyal student sections, the small intimate arenas, and the die hard fans. I meant it when I said "I personally think that watching a prospective NHL superstar play is more exciting than watching some kid that will not make professional leagues," I love it when the top end prospects come to the school I support, but that is not what draws me to the sport.

 

[TimU]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

As for college hockey growth, the biggest tipping point will come when big brand name schools add hockey as a revenue generating sport. Title IX is an issue, but the even bigger one is financial. To do hockey right, you need a few million to start a team and millions more if you don't have a suitable facility. Once you get a big SEC school to add hockey in a big way, I think the other SEC schools will eventually follow for competitive reasons. Likewise for the Pac 10, etc. If I were Paul Kelly, I would be concentrating on those big brand name schools, and showing them the business case of how college hockey can add revenue. Frankly, the NHL should also be looking at helping start these programs to help hockey grow outside the core market.

Exactly!
It always makes me scratch my head when I read threads about college hockey expansion and such a large percentage of the talk is about programs like Grand Valley State, Lindenwood, Liberty, and the like. I of all people certainly don't have a problem with D-II and D-III schools playing up in hockey. Part of the charm of the NCAA D-I hockey world (to me, at least) is that schools like Ferris State can regularly compete with Michigan, Merrimack with BC, St. Cloud with Minnesota, etc... (some better than others).

Just keep in mind that if that "tipping point" ever does arrive, the days of Ferris State and Merrimack competing with Michigan and BC will probably come to an end in a hurry. More people will watch college hockey, but it won't be the same sport.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

Just keep in mind that if that "tipping point" ever does arrive, the days of Ferris State and Merrimack competing with Michigan and BC will probably come to an end in a hurry. More people will watch college hockey, but it won't be the same sport.

I'd say that day is already here. But there's no question things would get much, much worse.

The only thing that gives me hope is that SEC football coaches are so powerful that they might be able to preempt serious investment in other sports.

 

[cycledown]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

I am sure that if title IX was redefined the start up costs for schools across the board would drop significantly.......It doesnt take an essay on this site to figure it out it takes action. Action by the people who(m) are in the positions for change of Title IX. Once there is a modification then the business side will take care of itself. Hell, 5 years ago eveybody at USCHO thought it was crazy now at least the subject is coming up in discussion.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

The question is: can we redefine it to make startup costs greater?

 

[cycledown]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

It already has without redefinition and by people without any business foresight

 

[cycledown]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

If you are a college/university and want to startup hockey you have to finance 2 teams instead of one at the same time. Now with redefinition pertaining to the startup cost for 1 one team (instead of 2) that opens the floodgates to expansion. The current defintion creates a business stagnation for US college hockey.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

The SEC will have arms races in basketball, men's and women's, baseball, force the NCAA to add driving cars in ovals as a "sport", and probably destroy the game of Lacrosse before they get to hockey.

Why on earth is anyone talking about the SEC adding hockey? Aside from UAH, what exactly in the southeast is encouraging? The empty seats in Atlanta, Miami, and Carolina?

Hell, college hockey is played on Saturday nights in October and November. As soon as that fact is mentioned to a SEC AD, whoever's suggesting the idea is going to get his *** kicked back up across the Mason-Dixon line.

You'd be better off having BC bringing up the topic in ACC meetings, but not by much.

 

[cycledown]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

Bronco go to the Club section I THINK the SEC has only clubs which is a start just a few years ago they didnt have any hockey and by the way the south is passionate about hockey they rather spend their money on smaller venues. I would say the NHL isnt a big benchmark for the southern hockey fans its at the lower levels.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

Do I really need to explain the massive difference between Division 1 college hockey and farking two year old club hockey?

And who let Hobart back on the board?

 

[cycledown]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

Hey knucklehead, I wasnt trying to explain the difference between the club and d1, so who is the real Hobart.....Its all yours!

I would put a thumbs down icon on the board but a number one sign would be better.

 

[Slap Shot]

We should be more worried about keeping the programs we already have and getting them to a near-profitable status before we think about expanding. Iona, Fairfield, and Wayne State have recently folded their programs, so I don't think expansion is the answer. Heck, we lost a conference! We also almost lost Alabama-Huntsville because of that conference fold. Let's build the programs we have now, get them even more popular, and then try to expand.

Yes. NCAA needs to get its house in order before we worry about expansion, and imho we are several years away from adding more teams than we subtract during the same time frame.

 

[cycledown]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

shot do you think college hockey will experience a large subtraction move?

 

[Slap Shot]

shot do you think college hockey will experience a large subtraction move?

Not necessarily, but given how precariously close they've been to subtracting teams recently (never mind the programs that have actually folded) that imho they are further from adding teams than we might prefer.

 

[4four4]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

The fact is despite the growth of hockey outside its traditional markets, the actual participation rates in the West Coast and the South are miniscule.

If a California school decided to play in the icebox they could easily field a college hockey program of only kids from California.

 

[Caustic Undertow]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

One of the issues I have is that I believe that if college hockey does not grow, it may shrink. It would be very bad for college hockey if, say, Bowling Green were to fold. I think it is still a possibility, and to have one of the few holders of a national championship banner vanish would be tragic.

Blockski suggests that player development and sport growth are different categories, and I see that logic. However, I think that growth will encourage player development, and I think that snagging top prospects will grow the sport. One of these days an American version of Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin will come floating out of Detroit or Hibbing or Los Angeles. If it were to happen now, he would play with the NTDP and then spend a year in London or Kelowna. That is where the best players are going. You can argue about whether or not college is just as good, but Major Junior's position as a place where top prospects become top draft picks and top pros is undeniable.

What college hockey can offer is an experience that one can't find in Major Junior. Sold-out Frozen Fours, tournaments in NHL arenas, outdoor games in front of 100,000 people.

Things that require college hockey to be growing. A shrinking college hockey is not an attractive product, even in good markets--who wants to get on a sinking ship?

Then again, when I read the annual "complain about ESPN's tv coverage" thread, I wonder if that's what we are. A few years ago, people complained about Steve Levy and Sean McDonough, and wished for Gary Thorne. We get Thorne, people gripe about him. Sometimes I wonder if public access cable is the better option.

 

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

If a California school decided to play in the icebox they could easily field a college hockey program of only kids from California.

There are 37 million of us. It doesn't take a high participation rate to churn out 2 dozen D-1 athletes. You could take Colorado, all of New England, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan and our population would be roughly equivalent.

The sport isn't sponsored by CIF or any of the sectional high school federations and there are no plans or proposals to even discuss the issue as far as I know.. There are no top tier Junior teams in the state. There is no grass roots drive to bring hockey to the Pac 10 or the west coast. Hell, lacrosse has a much better shot at adding programs in sunset country. We don't even have a full complement of men's soccer teams in the Pac 10 (5 of 10) and the participation rate and general interest in the sport obliterates hockey out west. Unless Phil Knight shows up at Oregon with a 60 million dollar check to fund an ice rink and a team and all the BC schools decide to jump ship for the NCAA, Pac 10 hockey has no shot of getting off the ground. Nada. none.

One caveat I guess. "Pac 10" hockey's best shot is for the conference to grab Colorado in the upcoming game of expansion musical chairs and have them start a program. The Big 12 North is a much better option for these pie in the sky expansion dreams than the Pac 10, SEC, or vast majority of the ACC.

 

[FRICKER]

Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

Keeoing the teams we already have, in my opinion, is doing pretty good in the current economy. The eonomy, combined with Title IX pressures, make losing a few teams a real possibility. With that as a backdrop, Syracuse University adding a D1 team is decades overdue. Yeah, I know that Union, RPI, RIT, Cornell, Colgate, St. Lawrence, and Clarkson have deep roots in NY college hockey, the the Orangemen could still ice a competitive club. Will it happen soon? Don't hold your breath!!!

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Should College Hockey grow? Does it need change?

Keeoing the teams we already have, in my opinion, is doing pretty good in the current economy. The eonomy, combined with Title IX pressures, make losing a few teams a real possibility. With that as a backdrop, Syracuse University adding a D1 team is decades overdue. Yeah, I know that Union, RPI, RIT, Cornell, Colgate, St. Lawrence, and Clarkson have deep roots in NY college hockey, the the Orangemen could still ice a competitive club. Will it happen soon? Don't hold your breath!!!

You say that as if NY were a key recruiting ground for the 10 D-1 schools in NY, which is definitely not the case. Sure, the occasional Matt Cavosie, Sam Paolini, or Erik Cole comes along, but certainly not nearly frequently enough to field a team with NY-only talent. If SU started up a men's team, they'd recruit nationwide (and in Canada), the same as pretty much everyone outside of Minnesota does.