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Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

She is "hardly known" in Duluth?

compared to Canada, yes
beyond the 1000 who follow the women's game, yes
if you went to Amsoil during a men's game, good like finding someone who knows who she is

BTW, this is not unique
I doubt beyond people who follow the women's game in MN
few know who Brandt, Frost, ... is
 
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compared to Canada, yes
beyond the 1000 who follow the women's game, yes
if you went to Amsoil during a men's game, good like finding someone who knows who she is

Hmmm, the 1000 or so who follow the game is a pretty good number. A coach isn't running for an elected office. More importantly, she would be known in a majority of the Canadian households where she would be recruiting, and a fair amount of US households. All that really matters.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Hmmm, the 1000 or so who follow the game is a pretty good number. A coach isn't running for an elected office. More importantly, she would be known in a majority of the Canadian households where she would be recruiting, and a fair amount of US households. All that really matters.

I never said she wouldn't be a good choice

only that I'm skeptical it would be a good life/career move for her
kinda like I'm doubtful Kennedy would leave BC for UMD
but heh, if they are up for it
I certainly wouldn't discourage them
 
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Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

so she'd leave a place where she is a national hero and has a successful career for a place she is hardly known with a big gamble she might be looking for another job in 4-5 years? :rolleyes:

your Maple Leaf panties are showing

I never said she wouldn't be a good choice

only that I'm skeptical it would be a good life/career move for her
kinda like I'm doubtful Kennedy would leave BC for UMD
but heh, if they are up for it
I certainly wouldn't discourage them

Then you should have stated that your initial question had further, but undisclosed, qualifications, namely, that any responses had to later meet with your personal approval. If you had done so it's doubtful that anyone would have wasted their time responding. Looks like your synapses are malfunctioning again.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

talk about malfunctioning synapses ....

I keep forgetting some here need the obvious stated
but even when you do state the obvious
others will read something into it that wasn't stated
and yet others will miss read entirely

who puts out your clothes out in the morning?
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

talk about malfunctioning synapses ....

I keep forgetting some here need the obvious stated
but even when you do state the obvious
others will read something into it that wasn't stated
and yet others will miss read entirely

who puts out your clothes out in the morning?

So, are we to take your lack of a negative response to the suggestion of Carla McLeod as that suggestion's meeting with your approval?
 
compared to Canada, yes
beyond the 1000 who follow the women's game, yes
if you went to Amsoil during a men's game, good like finding someone who knows who she is

BTW, this is not unique
I doubt beyond people who follow the women's game in MN
few know who Brandt, Frost, ... is

She was a Patty Kaz finalist for Minn-Duluth. I figured that would garner her some notoriety in Minn-Duluth. Your statement says more about Duluth than it does about Ouellette.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

So who the heck cares!

Well, maybe not you, but for those who have been following the story every new addition creates more interest with respect to what might unfold in court. And I would guess that many, if not all, of her present players care as well as possibly some past players, and many on campus who have shown support... just to name a few obvious answers to your question.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

So who the heck cares!

I do. The issues Miller is raising are both real and important. Her accusations are at least plausible. My problem isn't that I think this is overblown; it's that I think Miller has her own credibility problems and is not a very sympathetic figure. That doesn't mean that she shouldn't push the issues if they're true.
 
Well, maybe not you, but for those who have been following the story every new addition creates more interest with respect to what might unfold in court. And I would guess that many, if not all, of her present players care as well as possibly some past players, and many on campus who have shown support... just to name a few obvious answers to your question.
I'm among those who don't care. Surprising eh?
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Her accusations are at least plausible. My problem isn't that I think this is overblown; it's that I think Miller has her own credibility problems ...
I've spent enough time in Duluth to know what she describes is definitely in the realm of possibility. I've also had her tell me enough things over the years on the record that I had witnessed and knew to be untrue, so you learn to take some things with a grain of salt.

Some of this gets a little like the OJ trial, where if you can show that an investigating officer used a racial slur a few years ago, it can deflect attention from all of the physical evidence that tied the accused to the murder of his estranged wife. If somebody at UMD was a bigot and harassed Miller before the Chancellor got his job, then that means that her non-renewal was motivated by homophobia. Sorry, but if this is supposed to be a mathematical proof, I think a few steps have been skipped.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I do. The issues Miller is raising are both real and important. Her accusations are at least plausible. My problem isn't that I think this is overblown; it's that I think Miller has her own credibility problems and is not a very sympathetic figure. That doesn't mean that she shouldn't push the issues if they're true.

This is the most succinct, accurate and objective comment on this situation that I can recall reading here so far. Well done...very well done.


I'm among those who don't care. Surprising eh?

I'm shocked, shocked! (Didn't know we were taking inventory). Now another sleepless night.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Some of this gets a little like the OJ trial, where if you can show that an investigating officer used a racial slur a few years ago, it can deflect attention from all of the physical evidence that tied the accused to the murder of his estranged wife. If somebody at UMD was a bigot and harassed Miller before the Chancellor got his job, then that means that her non-renewal was motivated by homophobia.

Seems as though this could get ugly enough to have some of those Barry Scheck "How about that, Mr. Fung?" moments in court where the line between competent legal representation and theater is rendered virtually imperceptible.

I wonder if Gerry Spence is still practicing and, if so, what he would charge as a consulting attorney or if he would consider that to be lowering himself to a subordinate position. Then again, Miller might not be "little" enough to interest him. His brilliance and flamboyance would certainly add pizzazz to the drama and elevate its profile even further. Then again, again, Miller's case might interest gay rights groups enough to cause them to step up to the plate with their collective wallets and an extremely high profile advocate like Spence might be viewed as well worth his probable astronomical fee to propel this case into the same sphere. It's an explosive issue, generally speaking, and some of these groups might see an enormous opportunity in being able to jump on Miller's bandwagon. Just a thought.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Some of this gets a little like the OJ trial, where if you can show that an investigating officer used a racial slur a few years ago, it can deflect attention from all of the physical evidence that tied the accused to the murder of his estranged wife. If somebody at UMD was a bigot and harassed Miller before the Chancellor got his job, then that means that her non-renewal was motivated by homophobia. Sorry, but if this is supposed to be a mathematical proof, I think a few steps have been skipped.

The difference here is that Miller would likely be suing the institution of UMD either instead of, or in addition to, any specific individuals. In that, establishing a pattern that goes back years would be very helpful, even if it involves higher ups that are no longer there.

That said, in the O.J. case, the past comments didn't really distract from the physical evidence (at least not in court; they may have in public opinion); it was meant to establish a context for it. The prosecution had two major problems. The first was that all of that physical evidence was collected in a way that was, at best, shoddy and at worst also involved several 4th Amendment violations. The past comments were an attempt to establish a motive for why the police were so aggressive in their pursuit.

In this sense, there is some similarity to Miller's case. One problem she's going to have is that, as we've all discussed, there were some perfectly valid reasons why she was terminated even if the administration didn't list them (or all of them) in their initial statements. So she's not going to be able to rely on just the circumstances of her firing. She's going to have to establish a lengthy pattern of behavior to give context to recent events in order to win, unless someone in the UMD administration was stupid enough to write an email or memo saying that they were getting rid of her for illegal reasons. I won't offer an opinion on the likelihood that they were that stupid.

The other problem in the O.J. case was that the prosecution was wildly incompetent. That manifested itself in lots of small ways and one catastrophic one. The jury had to watch that clown show in operation day after day and it made them really skeptical of the prosecution's case. So, while from the outside it seems pretty clear that O.J. did it (and I agree with that) the view inside the courtroom was rather different than the popular perception.
 
Well, maybe not you, but for those who have been following the story every new addition creates more interest with respect to what might unfold in court. And I would guess that many, if not all, of her present players care as well as possibly some past players, and many on campus who have shown support... just to name a few obvious answers to your question.
She got fired and right now it looks like she's burning every bridge that existed between her and the university. I understand she's upset, but who is going to want to hire her knowing the thit storm they're going to go through if and when she gets let go again?
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I know I'm late to this thread, but here is my question: didn't both UMD and Miller fulfill all of the terms of the contract? What does a contract mean, if one of the parties is obligated to offer another contract at the end of the term? I hope my lawn guy doesn't get wind of this new paradigm, as I intend to go a different way this year, and I don't want the lawyers involved.

I don't know factors that were involved in the decision by the UMD administration, but there is a good chance that they tired of dealing with her difficult personality and her public outbursts that reflected poorly on the school.
 
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