Shannon Miller out at UMD?

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

She got fired and right now it looks like she's burning every bridge that existed between her and the university. I understand she's upset, but who is going to want to hire her knowing the thit storm they're going to go through if and when she gets let go again?

This has been mentioned several times in this thread so far and while it is a very practical consideration it presupposes that she would consider that to be a higher priority than standing up and being counted for what she apparently deems to be important values...core principals...**** the torpedoes.

The dissenters here believe it is all about her. I would imagine that her supporters believe it's all about principals (and the law to a lesser extent). If I had to guess I would say that it's probably some degree of both but only Miller might know the accurate answer. I say "might" because the two over the lengthy period of time that this issue has apparently been festering behind the scenes could very easily and understandably have a tendency to meld into one another making separating them extremely difficult if not impossible.

So, Miller might not even know.

Nonetheless, it obviously bolsters her case to claim that it's all about principals and the law regardless of whether or not she entirely believes that. If she believes that to be the case then all the better for her because she is operating from what she perceives to be unassailable ground which would maximize her conviction. If she doesn't believe it to be the case or not entirely the case well, then her ground becomes less unassailable but only she might know that.

I think I read early on that she does understand that this might affect her ability to find a job later on...she'd have to be pretty dim to not have that occur to her. So, I think that at the very least she deserves credit for standing up and being counted in spite of all the scorn and negative publicity she knew she would be subjecting herself to...regardless of whether or not one agrees with her or likes her. Not enough backbone in the world as far as I'm concerned...the courage of your convictions.

 

[taz91]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I know I'm late to this thread, but here is my question: didn't both UMD and Miller fulfill all of the terms of the contract? What does a contract mean, if one of the parties is obligated to offer another contract at the end of the term? I hope my lawn guy doesn't get wind of this new paradigm, as I intend to go a different way this year, and I don't want the lawyers involved.

I don't know factors that were involved in the decision by the UMD administration, but there is a good chance that they tired of dealing with her difficult personality and her public outbursts that reflected poorly on the school.

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Her contract was up, and they are not going to renew it. Like you mentioned, the school in under no obligation to offer her a new contract. I'm guessing the men's coach still has some time left on his and you'd have a hard time renegotiating it down and letting him go would require a buyout of his current deal. Am I missing something?

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

So, are we to take your lack of a negative response to the suggestion of Carla McLeod as that suggestion's meeting with your approval?

why don't you just suggest someone from Canada nobody has ever heard of?

for those who have been following the story every new addition creates more interest with respect to what might unfold in court.

no it doesn't, at this point few care, it's all over but the shouting

fAnd I would guess that many, if not all, of her present players care as well as possibly some past players,

at this point in time her current players likely just want to finish the semester and are wondering who their coach is going to be
as for past players, the sound of silence is deafening

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

This has been mentioned several times in this thread so far and while it is a very practical consideration it presupposes that she would consider that to be a higher priority than standing up and being counted for what she apparently deems to be important values...core principals...**** the torpedoes.

The dissenters here believe it is all about her. I would imagine that her supporters believe it's all about principals (and the law to a lesser extent). If I had to guess I would say that it's probably some degree of both but only Miller might know the accurate answer. I say "might" because the two over the lengthy period of time that this issue has apparently been festering behind the scenes could very easily and understandably have a tendency to meld into one another making separating them extremely difficult if not impossible.

So, Miller might not even know.

Nonetheless, it obviously bolsters her case to claim that it's all about principals and the law regardless of whether or not she entirely believes that. If she believes that to be the case then all the better for her because she is operating from what she perceives to be unassailable ground which would maximize her conviction. If she doesn't believe it to be the case or not entirely the case well, then her ground becomes less unassailable but only she might know that.

I think I read early on that she does understand that this might affect her ability to find a job later on...she'd have to be pretty dim to not have that occur to her. So, I think that at the very least she deserves credit for standing up and being counted in spite of all the scorn and negative publicity she knew she would be subjecting herself to...regardless of whether or not one agrees with her or likes her. Not enough backbone in the world as far as I'm concerned...the courage of your convictions.

blah blah blah blah

now that it is apparent to everyone UMD was justified because of her underperformance she is playing the gay card heavily

why didn't she say this from the beginning?

simple, because it isn't true

she is making it up as she goes and basically she has been throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

why don't you just suggest someone from Canada nobody has ever heard of?

Why don't you go back and check the question you had asked? Let me help you out...here it is..."is there another former Bulldog that isn't tainted?" That was it...no other qualifications...with respect to past women Bulldog players. I suggested Ouellette and you decided because of some other metric that you didn't like that suggestion. You said nothing negative about the suggestion of Carla McLeod so I asked if that meant that she met with your approval? Then you avoid that question by answering with the above question that has nothing to do with the conversation nor the question that you had initially asked. You keep showing either your inability to follow simple conversations and to respond in an adult fashion or your willingness to ignore them and instead be endlessly confrontational for no other purpose than just to be confrontational.

Can you function without going out of your way to be confrontational all the time?

at this point in time her current players likely just want to finish the semester and are wondering who their coach is going to be
as for past players, the silence is deafening

Your assessment assumes that the current players don't have the ability to do both. Do you actually think that everybody who is focused on their immediate future lacks the ability to be concerned or care about someone who is no longer going to be in the direct path of that future especially when that someone is somebody who has played a huge role in their lives in the recent past? Rather one dimensional and insulting don't you think?

And because the past players haven't called you to tell you that they care or haven't taken out newspaper ads proclaiming same, and had copies sent to you, that is your undeniable proof that they don't? You have shown many times that you take huge liberties in pretending to know what others think and we have seen the quality of your mind reading abilities. But still you persist.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

she is making it up as she goes and basically she has been throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks

The old Joe Girard routine. You might be absolutely correct. Time and the legal proceedings will tell the story.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

would this all have been avoided if UMD had just said that she wasn't being renewed because of the teams lack of performance for several years....instead of the financial comment?

 

[shelfit]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

would this all have been avoided if UMD had just said that she wasn't being renewed because of the teams lack of performance for several years....instead of the financial comment?

That would have been too logical. It seems they overthought things and missed the target. They didn't apply the basic principle of coaching: Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[taz91]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

would this all have been avoided if UMD had just said that she wasn't being renewed because of the teams lack of performance for several years....instead of the financial comment?

Do they need to give a reason the contract wasn't going to get renewed?

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

would this all have been avoided if UMD had just said that she wasn't being renewed because of the teams lack of performance for several years....instead of the financial comment?

I strongly doubt it. Miller would have fought this and leveled the same charges no matter what they said. I don't find it plausible that the specific reasons for not renewing her contract had any effect on her reaction. All of the resentments (which may or may not be perfectly justified) would still have been there and Miller's opinions about why she was released would have been the same.

I think the only difference that it might have made is that it's possible the UMD administration would look more credible right now but I don't think that would have made much, if any, difference even here. That's for a couple of reasons. The first is that I disagree with Blackbeard in that I find a response now of, "We tried to take the high road and not say anything negative about her," is both plausible and exculpatory for the initial press release. It may have been dumb of them but I think most people will find it understandable. The second reason is that I suspect that the real reasons they let her go are complicated and multicausal enough that any simple explanation they tried to give at first would have collapsed upon deeper scrutiny once Miller decided to fight them. So even if Blackbeard is right, I can't come up with a way they could have avoided the hit to their credibility. A press release trying to give complicated reasons for anything is almost always a disaster and simply not providing a reason would only have provoked questions that they would have had to answer.

 

[spwood]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

would this all have been avoided if UMD had just said that she wasn't being renewed because of the teams lack of performance for several years....instead of the financial comment?

My original thought was by blaming the money, they don't bring any attention to way her teams have finished over the last several years and therefore not even put a hint of blame on her coaching ability. Could have been helpful in her getting another job? Guess that didn't work out whatever their thought process was!

That said, I agree with the thought below that it wouldn't have mattered why, we'd still be having the same discussion today.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Do they need to give a reason the contract wasn't going to get renewed?

I think no, it expires, they post the job and they move on, just like in other sports (or the business world). A player's contract runs out and they are then a free agent. Sometimes they give the player a heads up to be kind to them, but not always.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I think no, it expires, they post the job and they move on, just like in other sports (or the business world). A player's contract runs out and they are then a free agent. Sometimes they give the player a heads up to be kind to them, but not always.

And if they plan to renew, it more often than not get done well in advance of the expiry date, so if there is no renewal that is often a subtle message.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Do they need to give a reason the contract wasn't going to get renewed?

But if there is evidence that they are not renewing because of gender or racial or some other illegal reason they are still vulnerable legally.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

But if there is evidence that they are not renewing because of gender or racial or some other illegal reason they are still vulnerable legally.

Often those thing are pretty hard to prove in court. A few years back there was another long time coach not renewed that lead to a threat of discrimination and a lawsuit. Eventually it got all settled outside of court.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Often those thing are pretty hard to prove in court. A few years back there was another long time coach not renewed that lead to a threat of discrimination and a lawsuit. Eventually it got all settled outside of court.

Minnesota recently had a women's golf coach that sued on behalf anti-gay discrimination and the court decided in her favor and she was awarded some cash.

I had thought during the proceedings that in this day and age that John Harris, who was the head of women's and men's golf at the time, wouldn't do some so stupid as that. It seems I may have been wrong.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Looks like some dirt has been added to the pot...

http://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/33ltid/meeting_minutes_from_minnesotaduluths_athletics/


Here's the document...minutes of the meeting...

https://drive.google.com/folderview...&usp=sharing&tid=0B0faF9Y72ioIU1RRNXlFMjdNM3c

 

[shelfit]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Looks like some dirt has been added to the pot...

http://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/33ltid/meeting_minutes_from_minnesotaduluths_athletics/


Here's the document...minutes of the meeting...

https://drive.google.com/folderview...&usp=sharing&tid=0B0faF9Y72ioIU1RRNXlFMjdNM3c

But aren't we all very bored with this situation?! She's out. The new coach is in. Move on.

 

[charlieconway]

But aren't we all very bored with this situation?! She's out. The new coach is in. Move on.

Move on? I think everyone who follows college hockey would love to, but what about the part where Miller came out firing with threats of pending litigation for what she considers to be her wrongful termination?

The posted links are still very relevant. I'm glad someone shared, and I'm pretty stunned it took so long to surface on this board.

 

[shelfit]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Move on? I think everyone who follows college hockey would love to, but what about the part where Miller came out firing with threats of pending litigation for what she considers to be her wrongful termination?

The posted links are still very relevant. I'm glad someone shared, and I'm pretty stunned it took so long to surface on this board.

Sorry, Charlie (hmm, reminds me of an old TV commercial). I guess I've just lost interest in this story. I'm not close enough to the situation to really care one way or the other about this anymore.