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Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Hux said:
Actually, you can. Happens in all sports.
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from the NLI website

"NLI Provisions:
Coaching Changes
I understand I have signed this NLI with the institution and not for a particular sport or coach. If a coach leaves the institution or the sports program (e.g., not retained, resigns), I remain bound by the provisions of this NLI. I understand it is not uncommon for a coach to leave his or her coaching position."



The athlete would have to request a release, and it would be at the sole discretion of the institution whether to grant it.
 
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Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Trillium said:
You can't get out of an NLI merely because of a coaching change. Unless they suddenly decided to take a gap year...or leave the country.
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Hux said:
Actually, you can. Happens in all sports.
Click to expand...
Trillium said:
from the NLI website

NLI Provisions:
Coaching Changes
I understand I have signed this NLI with the institution and not for a particular sport or coach. If a coach leaves the institution or the sports program (e.g., not retained, resigns), I remain bound by the provisions of this NLI. I understand it is not uncommon for a coach to leave his or her coaching position.
Click to expand...
The language of the NLI aside, a frequent course of action in these situations has been for institutions to release recruits from those obligations. I'm not saying it happens 100% of the time or that it will happen here, just that it has happened repeatedly -- as Hux said, in all sports.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

CrazyDave said:
The language of the NLI aside, a frequent course of action in these situations has been for institutions to release recruits from those obligations. I'm not saying it happens 100% of the time or that it will happen here, just that it has happened repeatedly -- as Hux said, in all sports.
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I'm shocked, shocked to find misinformation spreading at universities!...

"I came to university for the truth".

"The truth? What truth? We, at universities, are in a politically induced truth desert."

"I was misinformed".
 
Blackbeard said:
I'm shocked, shocked to find misinformation spreading at universities!...

"I came to university for the truth".

"The truth? What truth? We, at universities, are in a politically induced truth desert."

"I was misinformed".
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I thought you went to the university for the waters?
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

CrazyDave said:
The language of the NLI aside, a frequent course of action in these situations has been for institutions to release recruits from those obligations. I'm not saying it happens 100% of the time or that it will happen here, just that it has happened repeatedly -- as Hux said, in all sports.
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While the U could certainly decide out of the goodness of their hearts to release an athlete from an NLI, it would be highly unlikely at this point in the season for an athlete to land a better offer for this fall.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

giwan said:
Is attendance a sign of support? Well known that Shannon believes in spreading the wealth to the world and selects foreign players very often. Is that the reason?
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Probably not...unless you haven’t noticed it’s very hard to compete with the UM and UW for Regional or even national blue chip players. They tend to get first pick (again...unless you haven't noticed) For most other teams (UMD, ND, etc.) have to go outside the boarders to find elite players. Now for Shannon it may very well been her intention to do so…however, to be competitive with burrowing type rodent you must seek foreign players...and in my opinion support generally comes with success.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

It's hard to compete with the schools (UM and UW) because of who those coaches are. Regional, or blue chips as you put it, will pick blue chip coaches. The rodents seek and land foreign players as well, so like coach miller says, support the student-athletes and their decisions. Elite players want to play for elite coaches and maybe that's where UMD is losing players? Idk, just my thoughts.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

123kidd said:
It's hard to compete with the schools (UM and UW) because of who those coaches are. Regional, or blue chips as you put it, will pick blue chip coaches. The rodents seek and land foreign players as well, so like coach miller says, support the student-athletes and their decisions. Elite players want to play for elite coaches and maybe that's where UMD is losing players? Idk, just my thoughts.
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…I guess you could classify these coaches as “elite” simply as a result of their program’s success…but please consider these programs are largely these programs because A). They are major Universities (urban, vibrant, etc.) in hockey hot beds competing against smaller (principally State) schools B) Women’s hockey is still in its infancy and the number of blue chips are limited…C) they get all the ones they want…and then some...and D) success breeds success. The reason UMD is not as dominating is because of the competition for foreign players they are getting from schools like UND. It's a watering down of the talent pool. UND's rise is parallel with UMD descent. Simple math Kidd:cool:
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

frozenfeet said:
For most other teams (UMD, ND, etc.) have to go outside the boarders to find elite players. Now for Shannon it may very well been her intention to do so…
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She capitalized on her extensive international connections like any astute business person would and as a result she achieved tremendous success, instantly! I recall thinking when Idalski hired Elander that Miller was now going to experience some serious competition with respect to recruiting European players. That has happened and others have gone to school on Miller...ie: UM and OSU to name a couple, so I agree with you on that point, that she has had competition in that recruiting pool in the last 4-5 years.

But as the old saying goes "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"...and that being the case, it never ceases to amaze me why so many people keep bellyaching about it. Do the Clarkson fans bemoan the fact that both coaches and every single player on the team with the exception of one last year were from another country, Canada. And that that one exception was from Little Canada, Mn. (a suburb of St.Paul)!! Heavy irony that! Did they bellyache when their team won the Frozen Four Championship ten months ago? It's a serious question, I don't know the answer but I doubt that they did.

(And speaking of being misinformed at universities...I remembered Elander's first name but couldn't recall his last so I went to the UND site and pulled up his bio and couldn't stop laughing when I read the following line, which obviously wasn't written by a math major...this is just embarrasing...especially for a university...

"Elander's expertise has helped UND's power play by nearly doubling the conversion rate from 16.8 percent up to 23.0 percent in 2011-12.")
 
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Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Blackbeard said:
The attendance numbers do not appear to support your theory. And going back 6 years they don't vary much...from 3rd to 5th in the country.
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talking about rank in attendance is laughable, there are only 2 programs in the country whose attendance isn't an embarrassment, and even those two have their attendance padded by:
in MN case, free attendance for students and basically as many games as kids want to go to for a buck
in WI: ultra low cost for everyone.

I was there for the game they honored the parents, there were almost more parents than there were fans to applaud them.
for a program that wins the championship every 3 years, and one of the nicest venues in the country, their attendance is poor, an embarrassment really
 
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Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

pokechecker said:
talking about rank in attendance is laughable, there are only 2 programs in the country whose attendance isn't an embarrassment, and even those two have their attendance padded by:
in MN case, free attendance for students and basically as many games as kids want to go to for a buck
in WI: ultra low cost for everyone.

I was there for the game they honored the parents, there were almost more parents than there were fans to applaud them.
for a program that wins the championship every 3 years, and one of the nicest venues in the country, their attendance is poor, an embarrassment really
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I more or less agree with you...I've been there a number of times and seen the same thing you've described and thought that it was terrible.

But in your post you said "which is part of the reason the Duluth area doesn't support her team" and I thought you were referring to attendance. It's not overly productive to judge these things in a vacuum so I was curious to see how they stacked up relatively speaking by checking the attendance numbers. And, based on my personal experiences, I was surprised to see the absolute numbers as high as they are for UMD. All other things being equal, and they're not, it wouldn't appear to be that bad, relatively speaking. I would think that the attendance numbers at UM and UW should certainly be better if for no other reason than their populations are multiples of that of Duluth.

Were you referring to attendance when you claimed that the Duluth area doesn't support her team? If not, then what were you referring to?
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Blackbeard said:
.......... 1) Do the Clarkson fans bemoan the fact that both coaches and every single player on the team with the exception of one last year were from another country, Canada. And that that one exception was from Little Canada, Mn. (a suburb of St.Paul)!! Heavey irony that! 2) Did they bellyache when their team won the Frozen Four Championship ten months ago? It's a serious question, I don't know the answer but I doubt that they did.

..........
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1) Every Clarkson Fan I know has never had an issue with the players. Now the fact that the coaches were former players at SLU (our biggest rival) is a whole other issue with some ;) .

2) Let me think a microsecond about that. HeLL no ;) . But I would guess some Minnesota fans did some bellyaching ;) .
 
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Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

All my experience has been in the corporate world, and I don’t know how much of that translates to the collegiate world. However, both worlds are engaged in getting others to give them money, so the driving forces cannot be too different.

When a corporation decides to terminate a supervisor for cause, that employee is stripped of all access and walked out the door immediately. The “for cause” part is not usually shared, which sometimes leads to wild speculation. Note that I am only considering management employees here. There are often remedial programs for lower level employees that can be invoked before letting the employee go. The difference in treatment between a manager and a “grunt” is a factor of how much damage each can do.

So, what are legitimate causes for firing a supervisor?
• One set of causes would be “inappropriate actions”. Drug addiction, sexual abuse, fire-bombing a mosque, child pornography would all result in supervisor termination.

• A second set would be job performance. Were you responsible for keeping hackers away from our data and failed? Out you go.

• A third set would be economic. Can we do your department’s job cheaper by outsourcing it? Is your department doing a job that is outside our company’s core competencies (i.e., there is no similar set of job descriptions and wage scales within the company)? Out you go, albeit more gently than the first two.

Since they did not immediately walk her out the door, this feels very much like an economic decision. Having a high priced supervisor puts upward pressure on the salaries of each level of management above that person. Having the highest paid coach in the country could well mean that the assistant AD for women’s sports will be in the top third for that category, and the AD will be in the top third, and the University president, and so on. Throw in another factor or two (Faculty tenure limiting your options? Abrasive personality? Lack of revenue growth? Input from donors?) and you get a decision that made good internal sense to them (not that we will ever see the factors that they considered).

I hope in all this rhetoric someone else thinks to thank Shannon Miller for her contributions to both the sport of women's hockey and to UMD.
 
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