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SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

I guess I'll ask the question again. If you "catch a player with his head down" are you free to check that persons head. Not hit him with a hip check. Not check him shoulder to shoulder, but check your shoulder into his head? If you say that's a legitimate check in college hockey, then I understand your position. I don't think that position necessarily squares with the rule.

the player turned into him at the last second, and secondly hip checks aren't used in these situations, they, as stated either earlier or in another thread about this, are for when your skating backwards, normally. If he hadn't turned into Marvin at the last second this hit would have been a highlight reel mid-ice hit.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Against my better judgement, I can't but help highlight your argument.

You are saying that rules against contact to the head give players an incentive to put their head down so they can draw a penalty by getting wacked in the head. Do I have that right?

more so the lengthily suspensions, for what otherwise was a good open ice hit. it shouldn't be the player about ready to make a check's job to see if the other player is keeping his head up like his should and has been taught since youth leagues.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

more so the lengthily suspensions, for what otherwise was a good open ice hit. it shouldn't be the player about ready to make a check's job to see if the other player is keeping his head up like his should and has been taught since youth leagues.

As a coach of peewees, we are teaching the kids not to extend any part of their body(hands, elbows, shoulder, head) into another player's head when they check them.

I was taught to make a hit like that with my hips and shoulders at the same time and to hit the opposing player in the shoulder. Marvin is clearly leading high with his shoulder and he finishes high and extends into the face.

How can you possibly look at the video and not see this? Marvin almost comes off the ice on his finish.

A body check's main goal is to separate a player from the puck. A shoulder to shoulder hit on the play in question would have accomplished this and most likely not injured Geoffrion and not landed Marvin with a suspension. Not only a cheap play by Marvin, but a stupid one in that he got himself in trouble.
 
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Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

the player turned into him at the last second, and secondly hip checks aren't used in these situations, they, as stated either earlier or in another thread about this, are for when your skating backwards, normally. If he hadn't turned into Marvin at the last second this hit would have been a highlight reel mid-ice hit.

As I said in my original post, I haven't even seen the Marvin hit in Wisconsin. I just asked my original question, in general. If a player is caught with his head down, is another player free to check his head. That's all I've asked, and I'm not trying to pick an argument with anyone. I just noted lots of SCSU fans referred to the Wisconsin player as "having his head down". It just seemed to me, based upon the rule that I think someone posted, that any sort of check to the head was forbidden, whether the players head was up or down.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

As I said in my original post, I haven't even seen the Marvin hit in Wisconsin.

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Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

As I said in my original post, I haven't even seen the Marvin hit in Wisconsin. I just asked my original question, in general. If a player is caught with his head down, is another player free to check his head. That's all I've asked, and I'm not trying to pick an argument with anyone. I just noted lots of SCSU fans referred to the Wisconsin player as "having his head down". It just seemed to me, based upon the rule that I think someone posted, that any sort of check to the head was forbidden, whether the players head was up or down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI7g-mmH0jM

If you can figure out how Blake was supposed to know Marvin was going to hit him then you're better than I am. I understand you're supposed to keep your head up but he's looking at his stick trying to receive a pass and then gets blasted by a guy he never saw coming.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

I guess my question is, if a players head is down, is it still alright for another player to hit it? Certainly not with a stick or elbow, but even a shoulder?

If a player puts his head somewhere where a hit was on its way, it's hardly the fault of the person delivering the hit.

Just as a player can't be called for a hit from behind when a player intentionally turns his back to a hit the last second, neither should Marvin be held in contempt for finishing a check on a player who refused to defend himself.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Maybe we should just shoot him like a horse.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

As I said in my original post, I haven't even seen the Marvin hit in Wisconsin. I just asked my original question, in general. If a player is caught with his head down, is another player free to check his head. That's all I've asked, and I'm not trying to pick an argument with anyone. I just noted lots of SCSU fans referred to the Wisconsin player as "having his head down". It just seemed to me, based upon the rule that I think someone posted, that any sort of check to the head was forbidden, whether the players head was up or down.

and this is what im talking about with an incentive to play with your head down. The checking player shouldn't be the responsible party to make sure the other player is keeping his head up.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

and this is what im talking about with an incentive to play with your head down. The checking player shouldn't be the responsible party to make sure the other player is keeping his head up.

FAIL!

Actually, in hockey, you are responsible for keeping your own body and stick under control. Are you serious? It is/was in fact Marvin's responsibility to avoid hitting Blake in the head - hence the suspension.

This is the same for CFB, high sticking etc.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

FAIL!

Actually, in hockey, you are responsible for keeping your own body and stick under control. Are you serious? It is/was in fact Marvin's responsibility to avoid hitting Blake in the head - hence the suspension.

This is the same for CFB, high sticking etc.

Can you explain to me why they think Blake was supposed to know he was going to get hit? Even with super peripheral vision he's not going to see Marvin coming from what I can see on the video, head up or not. :confused:
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

This hit and checking from behind are two different things. Just about all of the SCSU fans agree that the Genoway hit, from behind, was dirty and warranted a longer suspension than he received, and on a personal level I'm a little disappointed that Motzko didn't suspend Marvin himself for additional game.

There is no penalty for checking from the side or checking the unsuspecting. Whether or not Geoffrion saw it coming has nothing to do with anything, no hockey player is going to say to himself "I better not check this guy because he's not looking at me." Since Marvin hit him in the head, intentional or not, there should have been at least at minor penalty called, and it seems to me that most SCSU fans here also wouldn't have any problem with that either. However, I see no malice in the hit on Geoffrion. If the pass had been on Geoffrion's stick, he likely would have kept skating a touch faster with his head up and Marvin would have hit him in the shoulder and Geoffrion's head would not have snapped back. With the puck in his skates, it appears to me, he slows down just a tick and puts his head down, with throws the timing of Marvin's check off just enough to, unfortunately, cause damage. You lead with your shoulder in any "collision" sport football, hockey, rugby, etc...so that is inconsequential, and that play happened so fast that if Marvin was aiming for Geoffrion's shoulder and missed (which, again, is Marvin's fault and cause for at least a minor penalty, but not, to me, a suspension) he wouldn't have had time to think to himself "uh-oh, I'm about to hit his head, not his shoulder, I'd better let up." I certainly wish it hadn't have happened and I really hope Geoffrion makes a speedy recovery, but what I take from the video is a case of unfortunate timing, not malicious intent.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

FAIL!

Actually, in hockey, you are responsible for keeping your own body and stick under control. Are you serious? It is/was in fact Marvin's responsibility to avoid hitting Blake in the head - hence the suspension.

This is the same for CFB, high sticking etc.

and like a CFB if a player turns his back at the last second its not called. Blakes head dropped after Marvin initiated the hit, then right before the hit blake turned directly into the check, bringing his head directly into line with Marvin's shoulder. Blake didn't see Marvin coming and Marvin didn't know blake would turn into the check at the last second.

Marvin's hit on geno was an unfortunate mistake which he should have been suspended longer for. This hit should have got a 2min minor and nothing else. The suspension is a make up call for the flak the league has gotten for the geno call and the fact he is still out.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Not sure if this was mentioned already, but this is interesting:

Marvin's suspension could have been alot longer...

http://ciskie.blogspot.com/2010/03/source-marvin-suspension-initally.html

A source with knowledge of the talks has told me that the WCHA's original punishment would have banished Marvin for the entire first round of the WCHA playoffs, and possibly the WCHA Final Five -- should St. Cloud make it there. That ban -- which could have been as high as five games if the Huskies played a three-game first-round series and eight games if it included the Final Five -- was then reduced to its current state on appeal. The source was unclear if the league wanted to keep Marvin out for the entire league tournament, or just the first round. Either way, the suspension was reduced after the school appealed.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Can you explain to me why they think Blake was supposed to know he was going to get hit? Even with super peripheral vision he's not going to see Marvin coming from what I can see on the video, head up or not. :confused:

Its perfectly legal to hit someone who doesn't see it coming, as long as it's not from behind. Of course it's not Geoffrion's fault for putting his head down, but I think the point is that Marvin couldn't have predicted that Geoffrion was going to put his head down the second before he was going to hit him, so he didn't have time to let up. It's still a penalty for contact to the head, but I just don't see the malice, just like when a player turns around with his stick too high and hits a player he didn't see in the face, it's not the victims fault for standing there, but the offended player certainly didn't intend to hit the guy in the face.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Its perfectly legal to hit someone who doesn't see it coming, as long as it's not from behind. Of course it's not Geoffrion's fault for putting his head down, but I think the point is that Marvin couldn't have predicted that Geoffrion was going to put his head down the second before he was going to hit him, so he didn't have time to let up. It's still a penalty for contact to the head, but I just don't see the malice, just like when a player turns around with his stick too high and hits a player he didn't see in the face, it's not the victims fault for standing there, but the offended player certainly didn't intend to hit the guy in the face.

It looks like he deliberately went to the front instead of just going for his shoulder. He came up from behind. I don't know why he exerted so much effort to get in front of him instead of just hitting him in the side.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

and like a CFB if a player turns his back at the last second its not called. Blakes head dropped after Marvin initiated the hit, then right before the hit blake turned directly into the check, bringing his head directly into line with Marvin's shoulder. Blake didn't see Marvin coming and Marvin didn't know blake would turn into the check at the last second.

Marvin's hit on geno was an unfortunate mistake which he should have been suspended longer for. This hit should have got a 2min minor and nothing else. The suspension is a make up call for the flak the league has gotten for the geno call and the fact he is still out.

In your previous post you said that it's not the checking player's responsibility to know where his opponent's head is when in fact it is.

I don't doubt that this suspension is longer because of the "unfortunate mistake" on Genoway, but it's also a result of a pattern of behavior.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Blakes head dropped after Marvin initiated the hit ...

No, the head is down looking for the puck as the pass comes in.

And as far as I can tell from the video the only contact made was shoulder to helmet.
 
Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

If Marvin's hits weren't that bad, let him volunteer to take proportionally the same hits he delivered to Genoway and Geoffreon:

We'll find someone six inches and 50 pounds bigger to take a 200 foot "crush to the glass" run at his head followed up by a full speed shoulder to the head by someone roughly his size. After that, Marvin's free to do whatever he's still able.

If the hits weren't that bad both Marvin and SCSU fans should be all for it, right?
 
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