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SCOTUS, Now with KBJ

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Well, it's not really her body so much as it is their control over her vagina.

More specifically, it's about what goes into her vagina than it is what comes out.

Republican women have offered up a few helpful hints this week- control the intake of semen! And the lady running in VA said the man is going too fast in a rape for anyone to ever get pregnant.

You can tell some people have just never had sex
 
He did, and no one cared. The school specifically allowed him to do so alone.

Here's the issue, ....

Whatever you run for, I'll vote for you. As long as I'm in the district you're running, unless it's Chicago, then I'll vote multiple times.
 
Republican women have offered up a few helpful hints this week- control the intake of semen! And the lady running in VA said the man is going too fast in a rape for anyone to ever get pregnant.

You can tell some people have just never had sex

I can't wait for the GQP to suggest that women's clothing is the root of the problem, and maybe if they wore a non-shapely outer garment it would prevent these issues....

Maybe they should also include a face covering, we wouldn't want their gorgeous hair or lips to be seen....
 
He did, and no one cared. The school specifically allowed him to do so alone.

Here's the issue, do you really think a player would be free to ignore the coach initiating a "private" prayer immediately after the game while the opponents are joining in and everyone is still in uniform? Do you think he would feel compelled to participate under fear of losing playing time or the good graces of the coach? Then that's an establishment of religion in violation of the 1st Amendment, not a private prayer among individuals.

Now it sounds like the school got a crappy attorney at the trial level that didn't preserve a lot of those kinds of arguments. But a reasonable Court wouldn't have taken this case on cert if that was truly the only defect. They took it because they wanted to continue to expand a singular religion's ability to be both a sword and a shield.
The only "facts" that I know about the case are those referred to in the decision, but I don't believe there were any facts relating to coercion or anything else. In fact, I think they suggest the opposite. The coach started doing it on his own, and only later did a few players ask if they could participate.

No players or parents of players even complained, and it went on for years. It was only after someone from an opposing team went to the school and said they found it odd did the school take some action.

Furthermore, the school didn't claim the reason they demanded that he stop was based upon coercion or any concerns of players or parents. Instead, the school gave as its reason a fear that members of the public would perceive that the school was endorsing a certain religion.

He even asked if he could do it after all the players left, when he was alone, and the school turned him down.

Maybe it is a case of bad facts making bad law, but as I said in my initial post, this one is all on the stupidity of the school. If they had simply ignored the comment from the parent of an opposing player, the SCOTUS never gets a chance to issue this decision you all hate.
 
The only "facts" that I know about the case are those referred to in the decision, but I don't believe there were any facts relating to coercion or anything else. In fact, I think they suggest the opposite. The coach started doing it on his own, and only later did a few players ask if they could participate.

No players or parents of players even complained, and it went on for years. It was only after someone from an opposing team went to the school and said they found it odd did the school take some action.

Furthermore, the school didn't claim the reason they demanded that he stop was based upon coercion or any concerns of players or parents. Instead, the school gave as its reason a fear that members of the public would perceive that the school was endorsing a certain religion.

He even asked if he could do it after all the players left, when he was alone, and the school turned him down.

Maybe it is a case of bad facts making bad law, but as I said in my initial post, this one is all on the stupidity of the school. If they had simply ignored the comment from the parent of an opposing player, the SCOTUS never gets a chance to issue this decision you all hate.

Narrative always wins out over facts in today’s world. The media has done a huge disservice to our country in the last week.
 
Here's the facts. From one of the liberal justices (Sotomayer). The party that actually believes in facts. I am looking forward to prayers to Mecca on Football Fields and in classrooms across America.

“To the degree the Court portrays petitioner Joseph Kennedy’s prayers as private and quiet, it misconstrues the facts. The record reveals that Kennedy had a longstanding practice of conducting demonstrative prayers on the 50- yard line of the football field. Kennedy consistently invited others to join his prayers and for years led student athletes in prayer at the same time and location. The Court ignores this history. The Court also ignores the severe disruption to school events caused by Kennedy’s conduct.”

FROM THE ARTICLE AUTHOR: In reality, if Kennedy had engaged in a “quiet,” “short,” “private,” and “personal” prayer, there wouldn’t have been a case since no one would’ve cared. Indeed, this is precisely what school officials asked Kennedy to do.

But for the coach, “quiet,” “short,” “private,” and “personal” prayers weren’t good enough

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...Zgh1QuXgkTL5dY
 
Last edited:
This case is the epitome of what happens when you have multiple dumb people making dumb decisions and you end up at the SCOTUS.

The coach is an idiot. Praying to some god after a football game is proof of that, but if he feels the need to pray, go do it at home. I have some news for him. There is no god, and if there is, he isn't interested in Washington high school football. And if he is interested in Washington high school football, really what sort of a god is he? But he probably knows that, and also probably knows someone will get butthurt by him praying, so he does it.

But that gets us to idiot #2, the person who got butthurt over people praying in the middle of the field after a game. You are absolutely correct that if it was a muslim coach or player who trotted out a prayer rug to the fifty yard line, it would be an entirely different group of butthurt individuals. But they are still idiots, regardless of which group they fall in. WHO FUCKING CARES IF THEY ARE PRAYING ON THE FIELD AFTER THE GAME.

I have an idea for you. Do what I do. Ignore them. Try to remember where you parked your car and start walking to it. If you're the school, turn off the stadium lights.

But then we get to idiot group #3, the school (or probably their lawyers). In this case the school claimed they had to take the action they did over fear they would be sued for "establishing" a religion. I have some news for you. Yes, it's theoretically possible someone might sue you for establishing a religion, but good luck. First, they should understand that in today's judicial climate, it isn't going to be a successful suit. Second, did the school assume that the fired coach wouldn't sue?? My guess is that thousands of cases are filed every year by fired employees, alleging discrimination on the basis of sex, age, disability, and yes, religion. Plus, when you add in a public employer and make the case about the employee's speech, you doubled down. Yes, the school may have been theoretically sued by someone wanting to keep prayer off the field, but they were nearly certain to be sued by a terminated employee.

The Supreme Court doesn't get to decide any cases that aren't brought before it. I blame the school and their attorneys for this fiasco.

This is a wild misstating of the facts of the case.

The coach was in a position of authority and made it unofficially very clear that prayer was required. No one was offended at the site of some superstitious people praying. They were offended that players were effectively peer pressured into joining. Want to play? Come and ostentatiously pray with us.

This was a performative act designed to get attention. The school responded to a complaint the right way, and then the coach made a major media campaign about it and got it all the way to this renegade court.




My god, is every GQP and GQP-adjacent just allergic to facts?
 
The only "facts" that I know about the case are those referred to in the decision, but I don't believe there were any facts relating to coercion or anything else. In fact, I think they suggest the opposite. The coach started doing it on his own, and only later did a few players ask if they could participate.

No players or parents of players even complained, and it went on for years. It was only after someone from an opposing team went to the school and said they found it odd did the school take some action.

Furthermore, the school didn't claim the reason they demanded that he stop was based upon coercion or any concerns of players or parents. Instead, the school gave as its reason a fear that members of the public would perceive that the school was endorsing a certain religion.

He even asked if he could do it after all the players left, when he was alone, and the school turned him down.

Maybe it is a case of bad facts making bad law, but as I said in my initial post, this one is all on the stupidity of the school. If they had simply ignored the comment from the parent of an opposing player, the SCOTUS never gets a chance to issue this decision you all hate.

I'm curious about all these facts you're claiming, but regarding one item the school itself did argue players may have felt compelled to join. More importantly there is absolutely no way to validate that either in this case nor in others in which this is practiced that some athletes won't feel compelled to join in. And that is precisely why SCOTUS should have ruled against - to protect students from feeling forced to participate. And as Sotomayor wrote:

the court "consistently has recognized that school officials leading prayer is constitutionally impermissible" and said the ruling did a "disservice" to schools, students and "the nation's longstanding commitment to the separation of church and state.”

This activist court has lost its damn mind.
 
The only "facts" that I know about the case are those referred to in the decision, but I don't believe there were any facts relating to coercion or anything else. In fact, I think they suggest the opposite. The coach started doing it on his own, and only later did a few players ask if they could participate.

No players or parents of players even complained, and it went on for years. It was only after someone from an opposing team went to the school and said they found it odd did the school take some action.

Furthermore, the school didn't claim the reason they demanded that he stop was based upon coercion or any concerns of players or parents. Instead, the school gave as its reason a fear that members of the public would perceive that the school was endorsing a certain religion.

He even asked if he could do it after all the players left, when he was alone, and the school turned him down.

Maybe it is a case of bad facts making bad law, but as I said in my initial post, this one is all on the stupidity of the school. If they had simply ignored the comment from the parent of an opposing player, the SCOTUS never gets a chance to issue this decision you all hate.

So, you’re saying the school should have waited for a more liberal SCOTUS to rule in their favor?
 
The only "facts" that I know about the case are those referred to in the decision,
...
He even asked if he could do it after all the players left, when he was alone, and the school turned him down.

From Sotomayor's dissent, reciting the facts:

"Kennedy stopped participating in locker room prayers and, after a game the following day, gave a secular speech. He returned to pray in the stadium alone after his duties were over and everyone left the stadium, to which the District had no objection."

You could at least read the facts first.
 
This is a wild misstating of the facts of the case.

The coach was in a position of authority and made it unofficially very clear that prayer was required. No one was offended at the site of some superstitious people praying. They were offended that players were effectively peer pressured into joining. Want to play? Come and ostentatiously pray with us.

This was a performative act designed to get attention. The school responded to a complaint the right way, and then the coach made a major media campaign about it and got it all the way to this renegade court.




My god, is every GQP and GQP-adjacent just allergic to facts?

Well, fortunately, there is a record, and it is public.

Below is the text of the letter sent by the school district to the coach that summarizes what happened that ultimately lead to his dismissal. Following receipt of the letter, the coach went ahead and did the same thing the following week (briefly said a prayer by himself at the center of the field while the players were off celebrating) and he was fired.

No kids were coerced into participating. He made a public prayer, by himself, and the school was pizzed about it.

The record is 376 pages long, if you care to read it. I skimmed through a sizable amount of it. It's actually kind of interesting.

Here is the letter.

JA 90
Letter From A. Leavell to J. Kennedy
(Oct. 23, 2015)
Dear Coach Kennedy:
OnSeptember17,2015,I provided you with
guidance and a set of standards for compliance with
Bremerton School District Board Policy 2340. Those
directives were in response to your prior practices
involving on-the-job prayer with players in the
Bremerton High School football program, both in the
locker room prior to games as well as on the field
immediately following games. In general, I believe
that you have attempted to comply with the guidelines
set forth in that letter.
However, immediately following the end of the
homecoming game on October 16, 2015, you knelt at
midfield and bowed your head in prayer. While most
of the BHS players were at that moment engaged in
the traditional singing of the school fight song to the
audience, your intention to pray at midfield following
the game was widely publicized, including through
your own media appearances.
I wish to emphasize my appreciation for your
efforts to comply with the September 17 directives.
Nevertheless, I find it necessary to clarify the
District’s expectations going forward. As was
discussed in that letter:
Many decades of federal court litigation,
including decisions of the United States
Supreme Court, have fleshed out the meaning
of the First Amendment’s Establishment
Clause and Free Exercise Clause. In the
public schools context, it is clear that schools
and their employees may not directly prohibit

JA 91
students from participating in religious
activities, nor may they require students to
participate in religious activities. Further, it
is equally clear that school staff may not
indirectly encourage students to engage in
religious activity (or discourage them from
doing so),or even engage in action that is
likely to be perceived as endorsing (or
opposing) religion or religious activity. In
short, schools and their employees, while
performing their job duties, must remain
neutral—allowing non-disruptive student
religious activity, while neither endorsing nor
discouraging it.
Federal case law makes clear that a violation of
the United States Constitution’s First Amendment
Establishment Clause occurs if a school employee
engages in conduct which a reasonable observer,
familiar with the history and context of the conduct,
would perceive as government endorsement of
religion. I again emphasize that the District does not
prohibit prayer or other religious exercise by
employees while on the job.However, as my
September 17 letter stated, such exercise must not
interfere with the performance of job responsibilities,
and must not lead to a perception of District
endorsement of religion. I conclude that your conduct
of October16, 2015,is not consistent with these
requirements.
As the District has emphasized to your legal
representatives, paid assistant coaches in District
athletic programs are responsible for supervision of
students not only prior to and during the course of

JA 92
games, but also during the activities following games
and until players are released to their parents or
otherwise allowed to leave. Supervision of students,
including in dressing rooms, is explicitly listed among
the responsibilities of assistant coaches in the District.
Indeed, I have confirmed with your head coach that for
over ten years, all assistant coaches have had assigned
duties both before and after each game and have been
expected to remain with the team until the last
student has left the event; that until recently, you
regularly came to the locker room with the team and
other coaches following the game; that you have been
among the assistant coaches with specific
responsibility for the supervision of players in the
locker room following games; and that you have helped
in the supervision of students until they are picked up
by parents or leave the facility, including during post-
game meetings between the head coach and
coordinators. From this review, I am satisfied that you
are and have been aware that as a paid assistant
coach, you remain on duty following games until the
last student has left the event. If that has been
unclear, I trust any confusion on your part as to these
expectations has now been remedied.
Thus, when you engaged in religious exercise
immediately following the game on October 16, you
were still on duty for the District. You were at the
event, and on the field, under the game lights, in BHS-
logoed attire,in front of an audience of event
attendees, solely by virtue of your employment by the
District. The field is not an open forum to which
members of the public are invited following completion
of games; but even if it were, you continued to have job
responsibilities, including the supervision of players.

JA 93
While I understand that your religious exercise was
fleeting, it nevertheless drew you away from your
work. More importantly, any reasonable observer saw
a District employee, on the field only by virtue of his
employment with the District, still on duty, under the
bright lights of the stadium, engaged in what was
clearly, given your prior public conduct, overtly
religious conduct. And there were many such
observers: The game had ended mere moments earlier.
Under federal court precedent, a court would almost
certainly find your conduct on October 16, in the
course of your District employment, to constitute
District endorsement of religion in violation of the
United States Constitution. That same case law not
only allows, but requires, the District to prohibit such
violations from recurring. In addition, Washington
courts have held that Article IX Section 4 of the
Washington Constitution, which provides that public
schools “shall be forever free from sectarian control or
influence,” imposes an even more strict prohibition on
public agency endorsement of religion.
I wish to again emphasize that the District does
not prohibit prayer or other religious exercise by its
employees. However, it must prohibit any conduct by
employees that would serve as District endorsement
of religion. I have explained above why your conduct
of October 16 violates that expectation. On the other
hand, I wish to make it clear that religious exercise
that would not be perceived as District endorsement,
and which does not otherwise interfere with the
performance of job duties, can and will be
accommodated. Development of accommodations is an
interactive process, and should you wish to continue
to engage in private exercise while on the job, the

JA 94
District will be happy to discuss options for that to
occur in a manner that will not violate the law.
It is common for schools to provide an employee
whose faith requires a particular form of exercise with
a private location to engage in such exercise during
the work day, not observable to students or the public,
so long as this does not interfere with performance of
job responsibilities. For example, a private location
within the school building, athletic facility or press box
could be made available to you for brief religious
exercise before and after games, if this will not
interfere with your assigned duties. Please let me
know if you would like to discuss such
accommodations.
Finally, I would like to remind you of what I said
in my September 17 letter: That is, the District values
very highly your positive contributions to the BHS
football program, and in particular, your motivational
and inspirational talks to the players. In that letter, I
assured you that you could continue that practice,
focusing on appropriate themes such as unity,
teamwork, responsibility, safety and endeavor. After
the game immediately following that letter, you
provided such a talk to the players of both teams,
while remaining entirely secular. That talk was well
received,and appreciated by the District and the
community. I would certainly encourage continuation
of that practice.
To summarize: While on duty for the District as
an assistant coach, you may not engage in
demonstrative religious activity, readily observable to
(if not intended to be observed by) students and the
attending public. You may not repeat your conduct of

JA 95
October 16, 2015, for the reasons discussed above.
Given the severity and likelihood of liability faced by
the District in the event of further violations of these
directives, any further violations will be grounds for
discipline, up to and including discharge from District
employment. It is my hope that you will choose to
honor these expectations, and .continue your positive
work with the BHS football program for the remainder
of this season.
Sincerely,
[handwritten: signature]
Aaron Leavell, Ed.D.
Superintendent
 
Well, fortunately, there is a record, and it is public.

Below is the text of the letter sent by the school district to the coach that summarizes what happened that ultimately lead to his dismissal. Following receipt of the letter, the coach went ahead and did the same thing the following week (briefly said a prayer by himself at the center of the field while the players were off celebrating) and he was fired.

No kids were coerced into participating. He made a public prayer, by himself, and the school was pizzed about it.

The record is 376 pages long, if you care to read it. I skimmed through a sizable amount of it. It's actually kind of interesting.

Here is the letter.

JA 90
Letter From A. Leavell to J. Kennedy
(Oct. 23, 2015)
Dear Coach Kennedy:
OnSeptember17,2015,I provided you with
guidance and a set of standards for compliance with
Bremerton School District Board Policy 2340. Those
directives were in response to your prior practices
involving on-the-job prayer with players in the
Bremerton High School football program, both in the
locker room prior to games as well as on the field
immediately following games. In general, I believe
that you have attempted to comply with the guidelines
set forth in that letter.
However, immediately following the end of the
homecoming game on October 16, 2015, you knelt at
midfield and bowed your head in prayer. While most
of the BHS players were at that moment engaged in
the traditional singing of the school fight song to the
audience, your intention to pray at midfield following
the game was widely publicized, including through
your own media appearances.
I wish to emphasize my appreciation for your
efforts to comply with the September 17 directives.
Nevertheless, I find it necessary to clarify the
District’s expectations going forward. As was
discussed in that letter:
Many decades of federal court litigation,
including decisions of the United States
Supreme Court, have fleshed out the meaning
of the First Amendment’s Establishment
Clause and Free Exercise Clause. In the
public schools context, it is clear that schools
and their employees may not directly prohibit

JA 91
students from participating in religious
activities, nor may they require students to
participate in religious activities. Further, it
is equally clear that school staff may not
indirectly encourage students to engage in
religious activity (or discourage them from
doing so),or even engage in action that is
likely to be perceived as endorsing (or
opposing) religion or religious activity. In
short, schools and their employees, while
performing their job duties, must remain
neutral—allowing non-disruptive student
religious activity, while neither endorsing nor
discouraging it.
Federal case law makes clear that a violation of
the United States Constitution’s First Amendment
Establishment Clause occurs if a school employee
engages in conduct which a reasonable observer,
familiar with the history and context of the conduct,
would perceive as government endorsement of
religion. I again emphasize that the District does not
prohibit prayer or other religious exercise by
employees while on the job.However, as my
September 17 letter stated, such exercise must not
interfere with the performance of job responsibilities,
and must not lead to a perception of District
endorsement of religion. I conclude that your conduct
of October16, 2015,is not consistent with these
requirements.
As the District has emphasized to your legal
representatives, paid assistant coaches in District
athletic programs are responsible for supervision of
students not only prior to and during the course of

JA 92
games, but also during the activities following games
and until players are released to their parents or
otherwise allowed to leave. Supervision of students,
including in dressing rooms, is explicitly listed among
the responsibilities of assistant coaches in the District.
Indeed, I have confirmed with your head coach that for
over ten years, all assistant coaches have had assigned
duties both before and after each game and have been
expected to remain with the team until the last
student has left the event; that until recently, you
regularly came to the locker room with the team and
other coaches following the game; that you have been
among the assistant coaches with specific
responsibility for the supervision of players in the
locker room following games; and that you have helped
in the supervision of students until they are picked up
by parents or leave the facility, including during post-
game meetings between the head coach and
coordinators. From this review, I am satisfied that you
are and have been aware that as a paid assistant
coach, you remain on duty following games until the
last student has left the event. If that has been
unclear, I trust any confusion on your part as to these
expectations has now been remedied.
Thus, when you engaged in religious exercise
immediately following the game on October 16, you
were still on duty for the District. You were at the
event, and on the field, under the game lights, in BHS-
logoed attire,in front of an audience of event
attendees, solely by virtue of your employment by the
District. The field is not an open forum to which
members of the public are invited following completion
of games; but even if it were, you continued to have job
responsibilities, including the supervision of players.

JA 93
While I understand that your religious exercise was
fleeting, it nevertheless drew you away from your
work. More importantly, any reasonable observer saw
a District employee, on the field only by virtue of his
employment with the District, still on duty, under the
bright lights of the stadium, engaged in what was
clearly, given your prior public conduct, overtly
religious conduct. And there were many such
observers: The game had ended mere moments earlier.
Under federal court precedent, a court would almost
certainly find your conduct on October 16, in the
course of your District employment, to constitute
District endorsement of religion in violation of the
United States Constitution. That same case law not
only allows, but requires, the District to prohibit such
violations from recurring. In addition, Washington
courts have held that Article IX Section 4 of the
Washington Constitution, which provides that public
schools “shall be forever free from sectarian control or
influence,” imposes an even more strict prohibition on
public agency endorsement of religion.
I wish to again emphasize that the District does
not prohibit prayer or other religious exercise by its
employees. However, it must prohibit any conduct by
employees that would serve as District endorsement
of religion. I have explained above why your conduct
of October 16 violates that expectation. On the other
hand, I wish to make it clear that religious exercise
that would not be perceived as District endorsement,
and which does not otherwise interfere with the
performance of job duties, can and will be
accommodated. Development of accommodations is an
interactive process, and should you wish to continue
to engage in private exercise while on the job, the

JA 94
District will be happy to discuss options for that to
occur in a manner that will not violate the law.
It is common for schools to provide an employee
whose faith requires a particular form of exercise with
a private location to engage in such exercise during
the work day, not observable to students or the public,
so long as this does not interfere with performance of
job responsibilities. For example, a private location
within the school building, athletic facility or press box
could be made available to you for brief religious
exercise before and after games, if this will not
interfere with your assigned duties. Please let me
know if you would like to discuss such
accommodations.
Finally, I would like to remind you of what I said
in my September 17 letter: That is, the District values
very highly your positive contributions to the BHS
football program, and in particular, your motivational
and inspirational talks to the players. In that letter, I
assured you that you could continue that practice,
focusing on appropriate themes such as unity,
teamwork, responsibility, safety and endeavor. After
the game immediately following that letter, you
provided such a talk to the players of both teams,
while remaining entirely secular. That talk was well
received,and appreciated by the District and the
community. I would certainly encourage continuation
of that practice.
To summarize: While on duty for the District as
an assistant coach, you may not engage in
demonstrative religious activity, readily observable to
(if not intended to be observed by) students and the
attending public. You may not repeat your conduct of

JA 95
October 16, 2015, for the reasons discussed above.
Given the severity and likelihood of liability faced by
the District in the event of further violations of these
directives, any further violations will be grounds for
discipline, up to and including discharge from District
employment. It is my hope that you will choose to
honor these expectations, and .continue your positive
work with the BHS football program for the remainder
of this season.
Sincerely,
[handwritten: signature]
Aaron Leavell, Ed.D.
Superintendent

Looks like the author of the letter repeatedly states he violated their code of conduct and the law by doing it while a) people were present and viewed him perform the act while b) he was supposed to be watching students safely leave the premises, as being an assistant coach/guardian meant safety of the kids came first before his freedom of religion. Once they all left the premises, he was free to pray, as his duties to protect the safety of his students was discharged. Sounds like he knew that, and he violated it anyways.
 
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