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Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

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Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

You still don't know all the details about what I did. How rigid is the schedule? No one ever answered that. If vaccinations are scheduled at 12 months old, do you have to get it exactly on that date? How much time do you have before you violate the protocol? Hours? Days? Weeks? I haven't researched it but I can't believe it's expected to be that rigid. I assume you have since you're so intent on it.

A lot of thought and science goes into determining the current recommended vaccine schedule. Doctors and health experts select what vaccines to give at what times based on the amount of risk a child has to a particular disease. We vaccinate young babies because they are most vulnerable to disease in infancy.

Vaccines are also tested to work together to best protect your child's health. The CDC vaccine schedule is designed to give your child the greatest protection possible.

Parents who seek a "compromise" to the vaccine schedule may have heard of Dr. Bob Sears’s The Vaccine Book. In the book, Dr. Sears has created an “optional” vaccine schedule for parents to customize their child’s recommended vaccine schedule with an "alternative" vaccine schedule.

There is no medical benefit in spreading out vaccines.
The alternative or delayed vaccine schedule will not decrease adverse reactions. In fact, research shows that delaying the measles vaccine until after a child is 15 months old may raise his or her seizure risk.

http://immunizeforgood.com/fact-or-fiction/delayed-schedule

8 Reasons for delay.

Severe reaction to a prior vaccine
Egg allergy
High fever
Asthma or lung conditions
High-dose steroids
Immunodeficiency or chemo
HIV-positive
Someone at home is sick

http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20513064,00.html#someone-at-home-is-sick-0

It’s all part of the CDC’s official vaccination schedule, which targets 14 serious diseases including whooping cough, diphtheria, tetanus, mumps, measles, rubella, rotavirus, polio, hepatitis B, and meningitis.

Why so many shots, so close together?

"The reason is that this is when people are most vulnerable” to these dangerous diseases, says Gail Shust, MD, a childhood infectious diseases expert at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. For instance, whooping cough and meningitis can be life-threatening without vaccine protection. In short, it just can’t wait.

Research backs it up, based on clinical trials and decades of experience with patients. The schedule is very specific to keep children as safe as possible until they are fully protected.

“We have the most knowledge and understanding of how the immune system responds in that time frame,” says Kari Simonsen, MD, a specialist in children’s infectious diseases at the University of Nebraska.

https://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/features/alternative-vaccine-schedule#1

STOP Pretending you know more than the CDC. Just stop.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I don't know anything specific about "super shots" and my only point there was that you could break up antigens into single shots, but you had to specifically request it and you have to let them know in advance to see if what you were requesting was available. When we broke up the MMR into 3 shots, it wasn't much of an issue.
How long of a grace period are you allowed to give shots because sometimes doctors are booked out for several weeks or schedules need to work out?

The first quote makes your second quote not relevant to your argument so you can stop using it. You deliberately delayed your vaccines, you did not have trouble scheduling.

If you had read my prior link in one of my first posts, you would know that the "too many antigens" argument does not have a leg to stand on. The number of vaccines may have increased, however, the number of antigens has drastically reduced. Antigens are what the immune system responds to and because we a much better at making vaccines, we do not need as many antigens.

In 1960, there were 3200 antigens. In 1980, 3000. Now the number is in the low 100s. This is several factors of ten less. If antigens caused autism or anything, the generation vaccinated in the 60s, 70s, 80s would have drastically large number then now. The fact remains that your child is exposed to several factors of ten more antigens on the car ride to the doctor than ever occurs in the doctor's office.

Plus because I didn't see the danger of the delayed schedule it was an easy decision to make because I didn't see any increased risk of doing it.
How much time do you have before you violate the protocol? I haven't researched it but I can't believe it's expected to be that rigid.
Something tells me you did not give all three separate MMR in the same day. When you delayed the next vaccine by doing it at the next visit, you made your child susceptible to a vaccine preventable disease, increasing the risk of a vaccine preventable disease. It is really as simple as that. This increase the risk of the illness propagating in a community, putting others at risk. This include the immunocompromised and others who medically are unfortunate enough to not be able to get vaccinated.

I wouldn't be so dramatic to say I'm throwing it away. Just not following conventions.
Conventions are there for a reason. You have given insufficient reasons to break conventions.

Don't bodies respond differently to the similar things? But in my opinion the risks I'm opening up are less or equal to the risks originally faced so I don't see it that way. I see it as going the safe route.
To a degree yes but it really does not support your argument. There are allergies and aversions but allergies require prior exposure and are self limited and aversions are also self limited. Also for the most part physiology is similar...that is the basis for modern medicine. That is why the blood pressure drug I use in one person will also work similarly in another. Your way had increased risk...and that cannot be the "safe route."

As an aside, when a patient tells me that their body is different...what usually follows is something completely wrong (or a plea for opiates).

This was a long time ago before the Wakefield study was disproved. So that was a factor along with increased rates of autism in children with autistic siblings. Seemed like a no-brainer to me.

The Wakefield study was a ****ty study from the beginning (seriously the methods were absolute crap along with being completely unethical) and only the media really took it seriously. If you look back, the recommendations did not change and the criticism was immediate from the medical community. I do not buy this as a good excuse for anything.

I believe the increased rates are still peer reviewed studies.
Do you mean the rates of autism? Yes, they are and they correlate very well with the increase consumption organic food. But they are explained by increase diagnosis and expanding the definition. All links to vaccines have been and continue to be unsupported in the peer review literature.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/on-correlation-causation-and-the-real-cause-of-auti-1494972271

Plus you can't keep emotion out of decisions surrounding your family, especially when you see no negatives in making a decision to deviate from the norm.
I know it is hard to remove emotions but those are the things that make us make illogical decisions. This is why health professionals should not treat family members because they will undoubtedly receive inferior care because they lose their ability to be objective about the situation. I do not doubt you had the best intentions for your children. The problem is there are negatives, you were just uninformed or misinformed.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

When I was a lad, there were no vaccines and I got measles, chicken pox and mumps all before 4th grade. When one kid in school got it, his/her class was going to get it. Teachers even planned for it knowing that for about a month or two the class would have a lot of kids out with the disease of the year.

Heck, parents would have chicken pox parties, particularly in the summer to have all the kids play at a sick kid's house just so everyone else would get sick before school started again.

Now we have vaccines and knowing how sick I was, I'm glad my kids and their kids didn't have to through with it. Why someone would intentionally let their kid get measles, etc. is beyond me.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Now we have vaccines and knowing how sick I was, I'm glad my kids and their kids didn't have to through with it. Why someone would intentionally let their kid get measles, etc. is beyond me.

in 1980 over 2.5 million people died from measles worldwide. Now it's less than 100,000. It would be even lower if vaccination rates were higher in Africa. Measles has killed something like 200 million people since 1850 or so.
 
I'll sit back and watch for a bit and enjoy this apparent lucky streak I'm on.
You're not on a lucky streak. You're a free rider on the backs of millions who have gone before you and followed the protocol to the point that messing with the protocol incurs very little (but nom-zero) personal risk that your child will develop a vaccine-preventable disease. You're the co-worker who comes late, leaves early, does no work in between, and then says, "Isn't it lucky that this project succeeded?"

Thanks to people like you making their own "best" choices, the prevalence of basically every vaccine-preventable disease is on the rise. You want to participate in society? Pull your weight. You want to mess with bringing back diseases, go do it on a desert island somewhere.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I'm not sure how much more repetitive I can be on this and keep pointing out that I left out key details on my situation on purpose.

Then you have no one to blame but yourself for supposedly being misunderstood. But one can only speculate that if you did intentionally leave out key details it's because it helps your cause in this discussion.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

When I was a lad, there were no vaccines and I got measles, chicken pox and mumps all before 4th grade. .
German measles also. I can remember getting a vaccine at school with some kind of "gun" everyone shared that same tool to get the vaccine, imagine that today? Of course it was a Catholic school so we were all saints anyway :D
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

German measles also. I can remember getting a vaccine at school with some kind of "gun" everyone shared that same tool to get the vaccine, imagine that today? Of course it was a Catholic school so we were all saints anyway :D

That German measles shot was a b-tch. The TB tine test was OK, but the GM shot made my arm hurt for a day.

You guys got vaccinated in school? That's interesting -- never heard of that before; darn good idea, though.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

That German measles shot was a b-tch. The TB tine test was OK, but the GM shot made my arm hurt for a day.

You guys got vaccinated in school? That's interesting -- never heard of that before; darn good idea, though.
I had German measles so doubt I got vaccine? The gun left 4 holes in your upper arm ,shoulder, not sure we got?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I had German measles so doubt I got vaccine? The gun left 4 holes in your upper arm ,shoulder, not sure we got?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The shot I am remembering was just one injection from a gun that looked like a f-cking bicycle tire pump. It was a quick sharp pain followed by a deep, deep ache. I could not lift my arm for at least an hour, and the ache felt like it was in the bone, and persisted for 24 hours. Made me scared to go the doctor for a long while after.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

That German measles shot was a b-tch. The TB tine test was OK, but the GM shot made my arm hurt for a day.

You guys got vaccinated in school? That's interesting -- never heard of that before; darn good idea, though.

my kid's school administers annual flu vaccinations, but not the others that they expect them to get from their regular provider on the CDC schedule
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I on the other hand do not support this as a right. And this is why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

I believe in science. What Tiggsy has done is not science by any way, shape, or form. Is science always right? No. But, if we do the best we can with what we know we generally come out pretty good.
I believe in science too. That's why I posted to Tiggsy that I wouldn't make the same choice he did.

But the simple fact is I don't believe society has a right to impose it's will on my body, to tell me what I have to or can't do to it. Whether that's an abortion, feeding tubes and artificial breathing apparatus at end of life, organ donations or vaccinations. There may be excellent and scientific reasons supporting society's position. There may even be life or death events outside of my own that hang in the balance of my decision. But it's my body. Any anyone who says that society gets to choose with respect to vaccinations, but on some of the others your body is sacrosanct, well in my opinion those people are hypocritical.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I believe in science too. That's why I posted to Tiggsy that I wouldn't make the same choice he did.

But the simple fact is I don't believe society has a right to impose it's will on my body, to tell me what I have to or can't do to it. Whether that's an abortion, feeding tubes and artificial breathing apparatus at end of life, organ donations or vaccinations. There may be excellent and scientific reasons supporting society's position. There may even be life or death events outside of my own that hang in the balance of my decision. But it's my body. Any anyone who says that society gets to choose with respect to vaccinations, but on some of the others your body is sacrosanct, well in my opinion those people are hypocritical.

This isn't a your body thing. If you don't get vaccinated it's everyone else who suffers. See the difference? You have people in Africa begging for these vaccines. We're lucky in this country in that regard.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

This isn't a your body thing. If you don't get vaccinated it's everyone else who suffers. See the difference? You have people in Africa begging for these vaccines. We're lucky in this country in that regard.
No. It is a "your body thing." You are insisting on the right to declare what gets injected into Tiggsy's kids, and when. It may be a very good idea to follow your suggestion. It probably has a great benefit to the public at large. No doubt the consequences of getting measles, etc..., are much greater than the risks of side effects of these vaccines. But there are tiny risks of severe side effects completely unrelated to autism. There may also be religious beliefs in play.

Sorry, you don't get to choose. Because if you get to choose here, then maybe we choose to take that extra kidney of yours and save a life.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

No. It is a "your body thing." You are insisting on the right to declare what gets injected into Tiggsy's kids, and when. It may be a very good idea to follow your suggestion. It probably has a great benefit to the public at large. No doubt the consequences of getting measles, etc..., are much greater than the risks of side effects of these vaccines. But there are tiny risks of severe side effects completely unrelated to autism. There may also be religious beliefs in play.

Sorry, you don't get to choose. Because if you get to choose here, then maybe we choose to take that extra kidney of yours and save a life.

:rolleyes:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/state-reqs.html

And next time someone gets quarantined against their will I don't want to hear any complaints from anyone. You exert your right to not vaccinate you also lose your right not to be imprisoned.
 
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No. It is a "your body thing." You are insisting on the right to declare what gets injected into Tiggsy's kids, and when. It may be a very good idea to follow your suggestion. It probably has a great benefit to the public at large. No doubt the consequences of getting measles, etc..., are much greater than the risks of side effects of these vaccines. But there are tiny risks of severe side effects completely unrelated to autism. There may also be religious beliefs in play.

Sorry, you don't get to choose. Because if you get to choose here, then maybe we choose to take that extra kidney of yours and save a life.
So I take it you are also in favor of legalization of all drugs? Or are you hypocritical as well?

We the people explicitly asked the federal government to promote the general welfare of the country. I don't see how anyone could argue that disease eradication through perfectly safe vaccines falls outside the bounds of that goal.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Someone show me where I said I know better than the CDC? Good grief. I still am puzzled by the outrage because my kids all received their vaccinations. Completely up to date. So my kids will not be the source of an outbreak and be a danger to the public health. Yes, I delayed some of the vaccines by a few weeks or months. But that is over with. This all happened years ago before most of these studies disproving the autism link were completed. Is that really what the issue is here? For less that a couple of months you are all concerned that my kids would be patient zero in a massive outbreak of measles? To the point that you're ready to impose a quarantine on them?

Interesting point Scooby brought up about the increased seizure risk. Exactly one of my kids has experienced seizures. Want to take a guess which one? I know, how dare my situation not follow the conventions you are all preaching to me. Watching your child have a seizure for the first time was one of the worst moments of my life. I don't wish that on anyone, ever. However, so is having a child with severe autism. He is nothing like Rain Man, which is what most people usually think of when they hear autism. My other kids don't get to lead normal lives because of their older brother. We don't get to go on family vacations, we don't get to go out to dinner together, they don't want to bring their friends over to our house, and after we are gone it will be up to them to decide how to care for their brother. That is a huge burden to put on your own kids. I also don't wish that on anyone. It's not fair to them and they may not get to live the lives they want, but they will look out for their family. Sadly that is actually one thing that came into consideration as to why our family is relatively large. To share the burden of caring for him in the future. It is obviously not the only reason, but it did come in to play.

The way I saw the choice was increasing the chance of them getting measles by 1%, or reducing the chance of developing autism by even 5%. With hyper awareness and constant input from doctors, knowing what to look for in case any of these diseases manifested, it was an easy decision. Call me wrong or uninformed. But at the time that's about what the belief was. Science had not confirmed anything yet as it was still a new issue. We made our choices, did what we did, and it has turned out fine for the rest of our family so far. If anyone still wants to preach to me F you all. Then I will introduce you to my son. Spend some time with him. Imagine daily life dealing with his issues, violent outbursts, and trying to communicate with him. After that you tell me that you wouldn't make the same decision.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Please point to the scientific study that says you reduced the rate of autism by 5% by changing the CDC guidelines. I want to see it. I posted all the reasons that immunizations can be delayed. If any of your children fell into that are (seizure being a severe reaction) then great, that follows the guidelines. But don't put yourself into any delusion that you decreased the risk of autism. There is zero evidence to support your claim and it feeds frenzy to other parents not to follow the guidelines. Not following the guidelines has brought measles back in Minnesota. Something that had been eradicated.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Please point to the scientific study that says you reduced the rate of autism by 5% by changing the CDC guidelines. I want to see it. I posted all the reasons that immunizations can be delayed. If any of your children fell into that are (seizure being a severe reaction) then great, that follows the guidelines. But don't put yourself into any delusion that you decreased the risk of autism. There is zero evidence to support your claim and it feeds frenzy to other parents not to follow the guidelines. Not following the guidelines has brought measles back in Minnesota. Something that had been eradicated.

I pulled that number out of the air as an example. Thought that was clear. You keep getting hung up on the fact of all these current studies. 10+ years ago, it wasn't common knowledge.
 
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