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Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

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Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

The Radiolab show on color, including tetrachromacy, called "The Perfect Yellow," is one of the coolest things I've ever heard. (The entire series is unbelievably, insanely, spectacularly good.)

It's part of a cycle on color:

"Rippin' the Rainbow a New One" (comparing numbers* of photoreceptor cones in creatures using a choir)
"The Perfect Yellow" (anomalous 4 cone -- red, green, blue and YELLOW -- women)
"Why Isn't the Sky Blue" (philology of when the words for each color appeared in each language)

each of which is brilliant work.

* The current known leader is the mantis shrimp. It has 16 cones.
 
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Tiggsy said:
If this is referencing me, I am obviously not anti-vax.
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You are, however, "I know better than hundreds of peer reviewed scientists and medical professionals," which is a distinction without a difference. If your thought process is fine, then what is wrong with antivaxxers' thought processes?
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

LynahFan said:
You are, however, "I know better than hundreds of peer reviewed scientists and medical professionals," which is a distinction without a difference. If your thought process is fine, then what is wrong with antivaxxers' thought processes?
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Okay, I guess it's time to get into this again.

Did I push my views on anyone? Did I say that everyone should do it the same way I did? Very few people are in the same situation as I am. What I did worked for me. It made me comfortable. The doctors were okay with the plan even if it was to humor me. The kids were fine and are fully up to date on their vax. So please tell me what the issue is? How did I put anyone at risk? How long of a grace period are you allowed to give shots because sometimes doctors are booked out for several weeks or schedules need to work out? How tightly does the schedule need to be kept because I never said how long of a delay it was? I still don't understand how what I did was so reprehensible. I do think my speeding analogy was a pretty similar example and would like someone to actually respond rather than just dismiss it.

I'm currently in a receptive mood and not trying to be combative, so I look forward to seeing this. Obviously this is my one hot issue and the shots against me and my kids got to me, so I'd like to avoid that if possible.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Tiggsy said:
If this is referencing me, I am obviously not anti-vax.
Click to expand...

Tiggsy said:
Okay, I guess it's time to get into this again.

Did I push my views on anyone? Did I say that everyone should do it the same way I did? Very few people are in the same situation as I am. What I did worked for me. It made me comfortable. The doctors were okay with the plan even if it was to humor me. The kids were fine and are fully up to date on their vax. So please tell me what the issue is? How did I put anyone at risk? How long of a grace period are you allowed to give shots because sometimes doctors are booked out for several weeks or schedules need to work out? How tightly does the schedule need to be kept because I never said how long of a delay it was? I still don't understand how what I did was so reprehensible. I do think my speeding analogy was a pretty similar example and would like someone to actually respond rather than just dismiss it.

I'm currently in a receptive mood and not trying to be combative, so I look forward to seeing this. Obviously this is my one hot issue and the shots against me and my kids got to me, so I'd like to avoid that if possible.
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Seems like one effective way to accomplish that would be to stop making it about you and your kids.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Now you are moving the goalposts. In the other thread, you were adamant that you (and therefore everyone) ought to be able to pick your own timeline. Now you say it could be a problem to hit the exact timeline due to doctor availability. So which is it? You agree that people ought to follow the timeline but are curious how much leeway there is? Or do you still think you know better?

Your seatbelt and speeding analogies will work nicely, as soon as we institute penalties and fines for not getting vaccinated properly. Speeding and not wearing seatbelts put lots of people (not just the offender) at risk, and we recognize that by administering civil and criminal punishments for those behaviors. We really ought to do the same thing for people who put others at risk by not vaccinating properly.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

LynahFan said:
Now you are moving the goalposts. In the other thread, you were adamant that you (and therefore everyone) ought to be able to pick your own timeline. Now you say it could be a problem to hit the exact timeline due to doctor availability. So which is it? You agree that people ought to follow the timeline but are curious how much leeway there is? Or do you still think you know better?

Your seatbelt and speeding analogies will work nicely, as soon as we institute penalties and fines for not getting vaccinated properly. Speeding and not wearing seatbelts put lots of people (not just the offender) at risk, and we recognize that by administering civil and criminal punishments for those behaviors. We really ought to do the same thing for people who put others at risk by not vaccinating properly.
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No. I was simply asking the question. How rigid is the schedule? What if you can't hit it because of factors out of your control? Should the doctors make special considerations to get you in to make sure you hit the schedule? You still have no clue what my schedule was because I have never said what it was. I'm simply pointing out that it might not be as bad as you think. But as long as the vax are received in a reasonable manner, what's the problem? The issue I raised is what is reasonable.

I never once actually claimed I knew better or preached people had to follow me. Just stated what I did and that it worked for me. You need to do what works best for you, even if it is not conventional.


burd said:
Seems like one effective way to accomplish that would be to stop making it about you and your kids.
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That is the whole issue. But attacking me for not looking out for my kids is over the line IMHO because that is what this entire issue is about to me. Making sure my kids are protected.
 
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Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Tiggsy said:
No. I was simply asking the question. How rigid is the schedule? What if you can't hit it because of factors out of your control? Should the doctors make special considerations to get you in to make sure you hit the schedule? You still have no clue what my schedule was because I have never said what it was. I'm simply pointing out that it might not be as bad as you think. But as long as the vax are received in a reasonable manner, what's the problem? The issue I raised is what is reasonable.

I never once actually claimed I knew better or preached people had to follow me. Just stated what I did and that it worked for me. You need to do what works best for you, even if it is not conventional.




That is the whole issue. But attacking me for not looking out for my kids is over the line IMHO because that is what this entire issue is about to me. Making sure my kids are protected.
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You are just chumming sharks.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Tiggsy said:
I never once actually claimed I knew better or preached people had to follow me. Just stated what I did and that it worked for me. You need to do what works best for you, even if it is not conventional.
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The thing is, it's not "working" for you because it's statistically a better thing to do. It's "working" for you only because you've been lucky so far, because disease is probabilistic.

Analogy: you're driving buzzed. Medical professionals say you're impaired, but you don't feel impaired, and you think you know your body better than they do. You also feel better about it because you think you have somehow taken control of a very scary thing. But you haven't. It's a psychological illusion.

Bet on science over feelings every day and twice on Sunday. That means accepting that you have almost no control over something as terrifying as danger to your children. Right now, ironically, through your actions, you are taking the one little thing you do have control over -- listening to the science -- and throwing it away.
 
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Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Tiggsy said:
No. I was simply asking the question. How rigid is the schedule?
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There are reasons to deviate including medical contraindications which you have not provided in your argument thus far.

Tiggsy said:
Should the doctors make special considerations to get you in to make sure you hit the schedule?
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Yes.

Tiggsy said:
But as long as the vax are received in a reasonable manner, what's the problem? The issue I raised is what is reasonable.
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What is reasonable is the consensus schedule unless sufficient evidence is presented to alter it.

Tiggsy said:
I never once actually claimed I knew better or preached people had to follow me.
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What about when you said this?
Tiggsy said:
There is a smarter way to administer vaccines by simply delaying them so the body is able to handle what it is being given. Doctors have tried to give my kid 7 shots all at once. I said absolutely not.
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Or this?

Tiggsy said:
If a parent goes through this and sees it all play out, would you honestly expect them to go through the exact same steps again without changing anything? I'm sorry but it still seems too coincidental about the MMR. Again, I clearly state that I do not think MMR causes autism. But there has to be something that hasn't been studied yet, otherwise they would know the cause. I have my own theories but stating them here would only invite a flurry of attacks on me, as you can see may have started.
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Or this in reply to Flag's "super shots."


Tiggsy said:
Last time I went through this, you could avoid it but you really had to be on top of your game and know what you are doing.
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You also never addressed how the drastic reduction in antigen expose in vaccines compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago basically torpedoes the "too much too soon" dance you have been doing. I am interested to know your thoughts.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Okay, you got me. I did say there was a smarter way but forgot to include the phrase "for me" in there. My intention has never been to push "my way" and I will take responsibility for missing it and being read incorrectly. It has only been to tell my story before I started getting hammered and my defenses went up. The second example of my post was quite vague so I'm not sure that supports your point. I didn't push anything specific just to think about the steps you went through and change something if it seems appropriate. To you, no changes would be appropriate and that's your prerogative. I didn't see it the same way at the time.

You really spent some time going through all my posts. I'm a little flattered. :)

Anyways, my question was what is the "grace period" in the schedule? If there are several shots scheduled for an 18 month appointment, how early or late is it acceptable to receive the vaccines before message board folks will claim you're endangering your child? That seemed to be the main thing people were upset at me about, so how long to I have to get them the vaccines? Obviously you are not going to get an appointment on that exact date, nor should it be expected by anyone.

I don't know anything specific about "super shots" and my only point there was that you could break up antigens into single shots, but you had to specifically request it and you have to let them know in advance to see if what you were requesting was available. When we broke up the MMR into 3 shots, it wasn't much of an issue.

WisconsinWildcard said:
You also never addressed how the drastic reduction in antigen expose in vaccines compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago basically torpedoes the "too much too soon" dance you have been doing. I am interested to know your thoughts.
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Not sure I understand what your asking here so sorry but I'm going to have to ask you to dumb it down for me. Happy to respond once I get it though. Thanks.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Tiggsy said:
Okay, you got me. I did say there was a smarter way but forgot to include the phrase "for me" in there.
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What exactly makes it better "for you"? Please provide scientific peer reviewed evidence and studies, not crazy B.S. anti-vax craziness.
 
Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Kepler said:
The thing is, it's not "working" for you because it's statistically a better thing to do. It's "working" for you only because you've been lucky so far, because disease is probabilistic.

Analogy: you're driving buzzed. Medical professionals say you're impaired, but you don't feel impaired, and you think you know your body better than they do. You also feel better about it because you think you have somehow taken control of a very scary thing. But you haven't. It's a psychological illusion.

Bet on science over feelings every day and twice on Sunday. That means accepting that you have almost no control over something as terrifying as danger to your children. Right now, ironically, through your actions, you are taking the one little thing you do have control over -- listening to the science -- and throwing it away.
Click to expand...

I brought that up a while back if I was just on a lucky streak. You're the first one to actually say that. It's one hell of a lucky streak that I'm working on I guess.

I wouldn't be so dramatic to say I'm throwing it away. Just not following conventions.

Is every medical case exactly the same? Don't bodies respond differently to the similar things? If I'm tempting fate, okay. But in my opinion the risks I'm opening up are less or equal to the risks originally faced so I don't see it that way. I see it as going the safe route. Obviously people don't agree, but my lucky streak has held out and I'm almost done so people can rest assured that I will not have any more kids so I won't be putting anyone else at risk in their eyes.
 
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