Sandusky/Penn State scandal

[huskyfan]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

rumor - the Prez is to be let go by the end of the day.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

At least we get confirmation that the "program" is more important then victims. Who were sexually assulted. And were little kids. And people defend the "greatness" that managed to keep this covered up for a minimum of 7 years of further abuse. Cool.

If Sandusky is not guilty, why wasn't there a real, criminal investigation in 1998, when child services got involved, or in 2002, when there was a witness to an alleged crime? Why did it take an alleged incident in a different local school to bring on a criminal investigation in 2009? Any time there, we could have figured out that a real criminal investigation done by the proper authorities was finished. The grand jury report shows a complete absence of that.

Why did Joe Paterno, who new that a crime against a little kid had allegedly taken place, not made sure of this criminal investigation, since the alleged crime happened at a facility that he is ultimately responsible for?

Of all that, it's really funny that the players call it a crime that Paterno is being forced to retire, when an actual crime, with a minor victim took place, and Joe Paterno did the minimum that he was required to do under law. As did the GA and his father.

It's funny how Joe Paterno asks people to think of the victims and pray for them, when, by his testimony, he didn't do much to help them in 2002.

Yea, I no longer think Penn State has any position to put themselves in some kind of moral high grounds.

So kids graduated, and they didn't cheat (or at least get caught). wooo, hooo. Ask the victims if they feel better since the progam is so clean.

More sanctimony.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

rumor - the Prez is to be let go by the end of the day.

It's inevitable. Spanier was the guy in charge thus responsible.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Pity you find commonly used words to difficult to comprehend. It's clear I'm going to have to be more proactive in helping you understand what I'm getting at. The "us" I was referring to was all of the posters. . Some of whom agree with me, some of whom don't. But someone who thinks it's appropriate to interrogate and humiliate two innocent women in this matter isn't exactly the one to set the moral parameters of our discussion. I believe you're over the line here. Way over. What would satisfy you? Prison for Paterno? Flogging? What? His reputation has been damaged. He's giving up the job that's been his whole life under these circumstances. To you this isn't punishment. I believe many others would disagree.

I comprehend them just fine, thanks. I just find it fitting that a blowhard like you resorts to using those big words that really have nothing to do with the argument I'm presenting. Obviously I know "us" was in reference to other posters. My point was you don't speak for them. We'll see who here agrees that Paterno simply retiring is a "punishment".

If you don't think it's appropriate to simply QUESTION Mrs. Sandusky and Sue Paterno as to what they know, then you apparently have zero idea how an investigation works. Funny how you trumpet the idea of letting due process play out for someone like Joe Paterno, yet you're 100% certain that the people I mentioned are innocent. I really don't care if you think I'm over the line. All I said was him retiring from coaching (when he doesn't even coach anymore) is not a punishment. Yet, you have to take that simple comment and turn it into something much bigger.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

So now its wrong to interview innocent potential witnesses to a felony? That's one I've never heard before now.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

It's inevitable. Spanier was the guy in charge thus responsible.

So you're ok with Penn State letting the President go? Something tells me if they fired Paterno and didn't let him finish the season, you'd be outraged.

 

[Almington]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Still, many people have behaved unfairly here. There is a whiff of triumphalism in some of our posts. And I'm reminded that in the old days, white folks would proudly pose for pictures with the victim of a lynching. It seems to me that the instinct to punish someone without hearing his side of the story is not in our tradition. And is itself ugly.

Two facts are NOT in question:
1.) Paterno knew that something happened between Sandusky and a child.
2.) He did not call police when he was first informed that the incident occurred.

Paterno has stated this to the grand jury, I fail to see how this will change with more information. The moral outrage is based on those two facts. What could Paterno say that would change that: He knew and he didn't do enough. He didn't pick up the phone and call the police. No amount of explanation or his side of the story is going to change that. Sure he'd be able to clarify exactly what he knew and explain why he chose to act the way he did, but that would just highlight the fact that he didn't contact the police. Maybe people he trusted failed him, but he could have acted in a way that would not have put them in a position to fail to act.

My opinion is that the moral outrage based on that is justified. Although Paterno didn't do anything illegal; as someone who built his reputation on doing the right thing the right way, the fall that much more surprising and remarkable and devistating. Many people who did not commit any crime are going to suffer for this as PSU has to clean house and try to reduce their liability: this was a failure by Penn State on an institutional level. The shadow of Paterno is such that PSU would not be able to move on while Paterno was still the HC and the fact is that protecting the institution of PSU football and the legacy and reputation of Paterno has become the ultimate objective of those in power.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Two facts are NOT in question:
1.) Paterno knew that something happened between Sandusky and a child.
2.) He did not call police when he was first informed that the incident occurred.

Paterno has stated this to the grand jury, I fail to see how this will change with more information. The moral outrage is based on those two facts. What could Paterno say that would change that: He knew and he didn't do enough. He didn't pick up the phone and call the police. No amount of explanation or his side of the story is going to change that. Sure he'd be able to clarify exactly what he knew and explain why he chose to act the way he did, but that would just highlight the fact that he didn't contact the police. Maybe people he trusted failed him, but he could have acted in a way that would not have put them in a position to fail to act.

My opinion is that the moral outrage based on that is justified. Although Paterno didn't do anything illegal; as someone who built his reputation on doing the right thing the right way, the fall that much more surprising and remarkable and devistating. Many people who did not commit any crime are going to suffer for this as PSU has to clean house and try to reduce their liability: this was a failure by Penn State on an institutional level. The shadow of Paterno is such that PSU would not be able to move on while Paterno was still the HC and the fact is that protecting the institution of PSU football and the legacy and reputation of Paterno has become the ultimate objective of those in power.

And how does that refute what I said about triumphalism? Seems to me your post confirms my observation. No matter what happened here, you and others think taking the lynch mob approach was appropriate. I don't.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Ha, when exactly was the lynch mob approach taken?

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

So now its wrong to interview innocent potential witnesses to a felony? That's one I've never heard before now.

This. OP would seriously like the police to decline to interview a couple of potential witnesses out of concern that they might be slightly inconvenienced? Yes, that would surely be the greatest tragedy of this whole sordid business. Just think of it - 2, TWO! women inconvenienced - oh, the horror!

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Ha, when exactly was the lynch mob approach taken?

I'm afraid answering your question would require the usage of more words you don't understand. Perhaps you could review the past several days worth of postings to get a hint. Be honest. You don't really want an answer (especially since I've explained it numerous times) what you want is an excuse to puff up your chest and bloviate about what a morally superior person you are. Well, you don't need my help on that one. Knock yourself out.

And you might take a couple of minutes to learn the difference between "literal" and "figurative."

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

no one has been lynched here, Old Pio.

Penn State cannot move on until Paterno is gone. every hour he spends in his position is another hour away from Penn State recovering. he's hurting the University he claims to love. does anyone (??!!) really want to see him coaching this Saturday? it spells disaster for the team. it would be this giant cloud hanging over the game.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

This. OP would seriously like the police to decline to interview a couple of potential witnesses out of concern that they might be slightly inconvenienced? Yes, that would surely be the greatest tragedy of this whole sordid business. Just think of it - 2, TWO! women inconvenienced - oh, the horror!

Oh, so now the two ladies "witnessed" what went on in the showers? I see. Nothing delusional about that. To you, questioning a middle aged lady about the sexual deviation of her husband would be an "inconvenience?" I see. Got it.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

no one has been lynched here, Old Pio.

Penn State cannot move on until Paterno is gone. every hour he spends in his position is another hour away from Penn State recovering. he's hurting the University he claims to love. does anyone (??!!) really want to see him coaching this Saturday? it spells disaster for the team. it would be this giant cloud hanging over the game.

Not for lack of trying.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Pay attention, I've already stated that I understood the words you used.

So you're admitting that a lynch mob approach wasn't taken/hasn't been taken? You just have a problem with posters who want that to take place. Got it. I actually haven't said anything about me being morally superior...

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

no one has been lynched here, Old Pio.

Penn State cannot move on until Paterno is gone. every hour he spends in his position is another hour away from Penn State recovering. he's hurting the University he claims to love. does anyone (??!!) really want to see him coaching this Saturday? it spells disaster for the team. it would be this giant cloud hanging over the game.

Exactly, nobody has been lynched. That was my obvious point.

One thing I'd tweak...Joe Paterno doesn't coach anymore. He is simply a spectator collecting wins on his personal record.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Pay attention, I've already stated that I understood the words you used.

So you're admitting that a lynch mob approach wasn't taken/hasn't been taken? You just have a problem with posters who want that to take place. Got it. I actually haven't said anything about me being morally superior...

Please reread my previous post, it may come through to you. I'm always an optimist.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Oh, so now the two ladies "witnessed" what went on in the showers? I see. Nothing delusional about that. To you, questioning a middle aged lady about the sexual deviation of her husband would be an "inconvenience?" I see. Got it.

POTENTIAL witnesses. They wouldn't know if they are ACTUAL witnesses until they INTERVIEW them.

 

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Still, many people have behaved unfairly here. There is a whiff of triumphalism in some of our posts. And I'm reminded that in the old days, white folks would proudly pose for pictures with the victim of a lynching. It seems to me that the instinct to punish someone without hearing his side of the story is not in our tradition. And is itself ugly.

This is too offensive to go without comment.

You are comparing ACTUAL LYNCHINGS, ACTUAL KILLINGS OF BLACK PEOPLE BY MOBS OF WHITE PEOPLE with this scenario? JOE PATERNO IS NOT A VICTIM. HE LET A MAN WHO HE KNEW WAS A PEDOPHILE CONTINUE TO INTERACT WITH CHILDREN FOR YEARS AFTER HE FOUND OUT.

What the **** is wrong with you? Senility?

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Oh, so now the two ladies "witnessed" what went on in the showers? I see. Nothing delusional about that. To you, questioning a middle aged lady about the sexual deviation of her husband would be an "inconvenience?" I see. Got it.

Maybe you should learn the difference between a "witness" and an "eyewitness."