Sandusky/Penn State scandal

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Pep rally outside JoePa's house tonight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JXoXdIJQ7I&feature=youtu.be

Pathetic. Those students should be ashamed of themselves. It's no time to be saluting Paterno in that manner.

1. Joe Pa reported the incident to his boss, who he TRUSTED.
2. Boss says, we got this, it's being taken care of.
3. No reason NOT to trust your TRUSTED BOSS.
4. Turns out that trusted boss lied. Ooops.

How was JoePa supposed to know? He trusted that the job was being done, because he had no other reason to think otherwise.

It all starts with what you think McQueary told him. If McQueary told him explicit details of what happened and Paterno realizes that after he reports it to Curley that NOTHING happens to Sandusky (which is pretty much the case here), that is a HUGE problem and an undeniable strike against Paterno.

The WFAN interview that someone linked does a good job summing everything up. Even more creepy is how the DA who first got some of this information went missing and is now legally considered dead. Apparently his computer was found in a lake or something.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

What are the chances authorities get Sandusky to talk about what he knows Paterno and PSU administrators know? Specifically, why did he retire at age 55?

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Pathetic. Those students should be ashamed of themselves. It's no time to be saluting Paterno in that manner.



It all starts with what you think McQueary told him. If McQueary told him explicit details of what happened and Paterno realizes that after he reports it to Curley that NOTHING happens to Sandusky (which is pretty much the case here), that is a HUGE problem and an undeniable strike against Paterno.

The WFAN interview that someone linked does a good job summing everything up. Even more creepy is how the DA who first got some of this information went missing and is now legally considered dead. Apparently his computer was found in a lake or something.

The McQueary thing is a legit point. From what we know, it was the basic "something bad happened." JoePa reported to the necessary authorities. After that? It's all speculation.

Maybe PSU wanted JoePa gone 5 years ago. But how do you fire HIM? Like Old Pio said, how do you fire a legend? Even if justified, PSU would look like a jack bag. So now, not only do we not know what JoePa knew, but PSU can let him go via the easy PR escape. Maybe JoePa knew everything, and PSU wanted JoePa's rep to shed doubt on the alleged, though now proven, coverup.

That all being said, especially since this is THAT big of a program, I'm sticking with the US standard of innocent until proven guilty. I wish ALL the info would come out, but sadly, I think that's a pipe dream. JoePa did what was required, there is some suspicion, but I'm not going to join a witch hunt.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

What are the chances authorities get Sandusky to talk about what he knows Paterno and PSU administrators know? Specifically, why did he retire at age 55?

It was in the aftermath of the aborted investigation in 1998. It's considered to be a given that Paterno found out about that (basically, given his stature and role in the PSU community, it defies belief that he wouldn't have been told), and I think that would have been enough to ease Sandusky out then, with no additional information.

It's the 2002 case that is far more problematic, given that a) it never made it to the police, and b) it turned the 1998 matter from something isolated into a pattern.

The WFAN interview that someone linked does a good job summing everything up. Even more creepy is how the DA who first got some of this information went missing and is now legally considered dead. Apparently his computer was found in a lake or something.

His computer was found in the river nearby where his car was found. At least one source says that the laptop was discovered in an area that had already been searched. His home computer reportedly had evidence of searches regarding erasing hard drive data, and I think even survival of hard drive data after water immersion. It was in the aftermath of the busting of a $1.5 MM heroine ring, and his disappearance does have some common features with the murder of a Maryland DA who broke up a heroine ring in Baltimore. My point with that is that there were big things in his professional life that were also a lot more immediate than a case he decided not to prosecute seven or eight years earlier.

 

[J.D.]

Maybe PSU wanted JoePa gone 5 years ago. But how do you fire HIM? Like Old Pio said, how do you fire a legend? Even if justified, PSU would look like a jack bag.

Even if justified? You really believe that? I have to disagree. I don't think they'd look bad at all. It's not like they'd be firing him for on the field results.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Even if justified? You really believe that? I have to disagree. I don't think they'd look bad at all. It's not like they'd be firing him for on the field results.

Sorry, I mean this situation not in the mix. If this situation didn't exist, how do you let JoePa go? No way you could. Some friends who are into college football (I'm not anymore, but I was, growing up), fully believed that JoePa would die as the "head coach" of PSU. That's all.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Sorry, I mean this situation not in the mix. If this situation didn't exist, how do you let JoePa go? No way you could. Some friends who are into college football (I'm not anymore, but I was, growing up), fully believed that JoePa would die as the "head coach" of PSU. That's all.

Plus, you spend 46 years as a head coach. Win more games than anyone else ever. Without a hint of trouble with the NC$$. Behave like a gentleman throughout. Put loyalty to the university ahead of personal concerns. And have high academic standards. You're gonna build up a little good will in the community.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Plus, you spend 46 years as a head coach. Win more games than anyone else ever. Without a hint of trouble with the NC$$. Behave like a gentleman throughout. Put loyalty to the university ahead of personal concerns. And have high academic standards. You're gonna build up a little good will in the community.

You wouldn't think that its possible (what with the whole massive-conspiracy-to-cover-up-kid-diddling thing), but that is an angle that amplifies this disgusting story into a full blown traveshamockery.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

You wouldn't think that its possible (what with the whole massive-conspiracy-to-cover-up-kid-diddling thing), but that is an angle that amplifies this disgusting story into a full blown traveshamockery.

Oh, exactly. That's the rub. Right now, only a few people know what JoePa knows. Some are taking it from the info that is known and proven. Some are taking it from the side that "he's in such-and-such" position, and don't believe the known (as of now) facts, and running with it.

Either way, the definite knowledge is out there, for now. There may be more, or the facts that are out there are THE info, period. We'll never know.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Oh, exactly. That's the rub. Right now, only a few people know what JoePa knows. Some are taking it from the info that is known and proven. Some are taking it from the side that "he's in such-and-such" position, and don't believe the known (as of now) facts, and running with it.

Either way, the definite knowledge is out there, for now. There may be more, or the facts that are out there are THE info, period. We'll never know.

Yeah, it would have been messy if it had all come out then right away, with say JoePa standing in the AD's office ordering him to call the Police into the matter. But the coverup?? It just looks bad for everybody, even Joe.

What makes it worse that Sandusky wasn't quietly made Persona Non Grata quietly in the next off-season.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Oh, exactly. That's the rub. Right now, only a few people know what JoePa knows. Some are taking it from the info that is known and proven. Some are taking it from the side that "he's in such-and-such" position, and don't believe the known (as of now) facts, and running with it.

Either way, the definite knowledge is out there, for now. There may be more, or the facts that are out there are THE info, period. We'll never know.

Look, I love JoePa, he is one of my favorite coaches, but based on what we know if Penn State doesn't oust him before Saturday there is something seriously wrong with them. Just like anyone else that preaches the moral high ground (which he has always done and always acted with class) once it is shown you are no longer practicing what you preach it becomes problematic. I am all about innocence until proven guilty but this isnt a court of law, this is about whether JoePa did enough to absolve himself...he didn't. Legally, sure he did what he was supposed to do...but that isnt enough and as the years went by and Sandusky was allowed to diddle kids on campus despite the fact that multiple people had reported the stuff he was doing to multiple superiors (including JoePa) it just becomes too much.

Let's, for sake of argument, say JoePa only knew what the Grad Assistant told him. (which is more than enough) Let's even assume that he never heard about any of the other allegations that went around about Sandusky even though the chances of that are slim to none. (JoePa owns that campus and it isnt like rumors wont fly) Knowing what he knows, why the hell is he still allowing Sandusky, who he now has reason to believe was raping little boys in their shower, still work at his school? As said previously HE IS PENN STATE! If he says Sandusky is not allowed to use the facilities, no one will side against him. So why the hell didn't he do it? He obviously thought Sandusky was scum that was why he reported what he knew (to satisfy the bare minimum) but yet he didnt think to ban him from the school? Sorry no dice. If I own a business, and someone is possibly raping kids there, said person is not allowed back. JoePa turned a blind eye for almost a decade as Sandusky still was around campus...

JoePa was negligent at best, covering it up at worst. Even with the highest benefit of the doubt he still turned a blind eye on a suspected child rapist because the guy was his friend. He, along with the administration at that school, basically pulled a smaller version of what the Catholic Church has been doing for decades. And that is if you believe he never heard any rumors about the other kids he showered with which I am sorry, I dont.

Is JoePa a criminal...no. Is he a bad guy...no. Is this a cruddy way for him to go down...yes. Does he have anyone to blame but himself...nope. All he had to do was not do the bare minimum. Tell his friend not to come back or take the next logical steps. His poor decision has now cost him dearly. I love JoePa, but time for him to step aside.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

To be expected in some ways I suppose, but how about the terrible job BTN is doing of covering this thing?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Look, I love JoePa, he is one of my favorite coaches, but based on what we know if Penn State doesn't oust him before Saturday there is something seriously wrong with them. Just like anyone else that preaches the moral high ground (which he has always done and always acted with class) once it is shown you are no longer practicing what you preach it becomes problematic. I am all about innocence until proven guilty but this isnt a court of law, this is about whether JoePa did enough to absolve himself...he didn't. Legally, sure he did what he was supposed to do...but that isnt enough and as the years went by and Sandusky was allowed to diddle kids on campus despite the fact that multiple people had reported the stuff he was doing to multiple superiors (including JoePa) it just becomes too much.

Let's, for sake of argument, say JoePa only knew what the Grad Assistant told him. (which is more than enough) Let's even assume that he never heard about any of the other allegations that went around about Sandusky even though the chances of that are slim to none. (JoePa owns that campus and it isnt like rumors wont fly) Knowing what he knows, why the hell is he still allowing Sandusky, who he now has reason to believe was raping little boys in their shower, still work at his school? As said previously HE IS PENN STATE! If he says Sandusky is not allowed to use the facilities, no one will side against him. So why the hell didn't he do it? He obviously thought Sandusky was scum that was why he reported what he knew (to satisfy the bare minimum) but yet he didnt think to ban him from the school? Sorry no dice. If I own a business, and someone is possibly raping kids there, said person is not allowed back. JoePa turned a blind eye for almost a decade as Sandusky still was around campus...

JoePa was negligent at best, covering it up at worst. Even with the highest benefit of the doubt he still turned a blind eye on a suspected child rapist because the guy was his friend. He, along with the administration at that school, basically pulled a smaller version of what the Catholic Church has been doing for decades. And that is if you believe he never heard any rumors about the other kids he showered with which I am sorry, I dont.

Is JoePa a criminal...no. Is he a bad guy...no. Is this a cruddy way for him to go down...yes. Does he have anyone to blame but himself...nope. All he had to do was not do the bare minimum. Tell his friend not to come back or take the next logical steps. His poor decision has now cost him dearly. I love JoePa, but time for him to step aside.

I've been trying to put into words exactly how I felt about this whole situation. What you just said basically summarizes the whole situation and how I feel about it. Well done.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

What I don't understand is why it took 8 years between McQuery seeing something and a grand jury hearing testimony?

If JoePa told the administration, I blame the administration.
If JoePa kept it to himself, I blame him.

Also, why was Sandusky allowed full access to the campus as part of his retirement package, if they knew he had allegations of misconduct in the past?

McQueary waiting till the next day also bothers me, however I can imagine as a student and Sandusky being his coach and maybe someone he looked up to, not taking action immediately.

I am not a JoePa apologist, but I don't want him to be railroaded out if he reported the incidents immediately and then nothing happened.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

What I don't understand is why it took 8 years between McQuery seeing something and a grand jury hearing testimony?

If JoePa told the administration, I blame the administration.
If JoePa kept it to himself, I blame him.

Also, why was Sandusky allowed full access to the campus as part of his retirement package, if they knew he had allegations of misconduct in the past?

I am not a JoePa apologist, but I don't want him to be railroaded out if he reported the incidents immediately and then nothing happened.

No one at Penn State informed the cops. Ever. That's why Schultz and Curley are being charged. This entire investigation was triggered by a high school football coach/assistant principle who banned Sandusky from his campus and contacted police about two-three years ago. That's why it took so long.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Did this story break before or after he set the record? I didnt hear about it until after but doesnt mean it wasn't there.

The complaint that lead to the Grand Jury started in 2009. That was based on a claim that happened at a local public school- who did exactly what they were supposed to do when faced with an allegation like this. The reported that Craid posted the interview with very much implied that there were a lot of whispering in the 2000's, but it really came to a head at the beginning of 2009.

The question of the timing of the Grand Jury report is interesting, though.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

No one at Penn State informed the cops. Ever. That's why Schultz and Curley are being charged. This entire investigation was triggered by a high school football coach/assistant principle who banned Sandusky from his campus and contacted police about two-three years ago. That's why it took so long.

Listening to the interview, that's one of the things that bothers some of the "insiders" the most. The reporter clearly had some more access to the program than the average graduate would, and it seemed to really bother her that, according to the Grand Jury report, nothing was done based on what happened on the Penn State grounds. It was not until a different set of people at a local high school reported alleged abuse to the proper authorities that a real investigation started, and this Grand Jury was conviened.

Who knows how many kids were really abused- but you could easily say that IF the 1998 incident where Sandusky apologised to a mother, and had cops listening to him speak (this is in the Grand Jury report) lead to SOMETHING- all of the victims after that may never have been abused. If one were to hang something over JoePa's neck, it would be the weight of the kids post 2002 (at a bare minimum, one can speculate for 1998 and prior) who were abused, and even last night he peladed with the crowd to think about. Coulda thought about the kids in 2002, Joe. You COULD have stopped it. You had the power to damage the program some, but stop the abuse. But all you did was fill your legal requirement, and let you friend bring kids to practice, have his overnight programs be held at your facilities, and basically let him continue to do what you were told he did in 2002.

Instead of a damage to reputation in 2002, it's now pretty much obliterated. The 409 wins are pointless. You made a perfect illustration that sport is held in such a high regard that simple events that are clearly wrong are overlooked. We hold sport so important.... ugh.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Legally, it appears JoePa did what was required.
Morally?

I haven't read the Grand Jury report because quite frankly, I don't want to read that stuff. I think the Board of Trustees wants Paterno out, and will find a way to make that happen.

Has there been any talk of postponing the game on Saturday? I don't see how the team can possibly take the field after everything that's happened, and the focus shouldn't be on the game anyway. The focus needs to be on those children that were abused. It's supposed to be Senior Day, a chance to cheer for the seniors in their last home game. Is anyone going to feel like cheering on Saturday?

ETA: Really?
Whoever wrote that headline should be fired.

 

[Biddco]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

To be expected in some ways I suppose, but how about the terrible job BTN is doing of covering this thing?

Not shocking at all. Have they even mentioned it?

I cannot put into words how depressing, angering, and just sad this whole situation is. Man.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Has there been any talk of postponing the game on Saturday? I don't see how the team can possibly take the field after everything that's happened, and the focus shouldn't be on the game anyway. The focus needs to be on those children that were abused. It's supposed to be Senior Day, a chance to cheer for the seniors in their last home game. Is anyone going to feel like cheering on Saturday?

I don't think the current players should be penalized for something that has nothing to do with them. They should play the game.