As for as Contact to the Head, how would you change the rule?
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Rule Changes?
- Thread starter manurespreader
- Start date
As for as Contact to the Head, how would you change the rule?
Re: Rule Changes?
Concerning ties, can someone tell me if I have this right:
1) For all NCAA games which count toward the PWR, a 5v5 OT for 5 min is played, and the result is either someone wins, or, for PWR purposes, it's a tie.
2) Following this, each conference is allowed to make its own rules as to what to do after that. For example, BIG does 3v3 followed by a SO, with pts going 3-2-1-0
3) In the case of Beanpot and other special tournaments, permission can be granted for other formats - like a 20min OT.
Is this correct?
Concerning ties, can someone tell me if I have this right:
1) For all NCAA games which count toward the PWR, a 5v5 OT for 5 min is played, and the result is either someone wins, or, for PWR purposes, it's a tie.
2) Following this, each conference is allowed to make its own rules as to what to do after that. For example, BIG does 3v3 followed by a SO, with pts going 3-2-1-0
3) In the case of Beanpot and other special tournaments, permission can be granted for other formats - like a 20min OT.
Is this correct?
Re: Rule Changes?
If everyone doesn't have a problem with ties, then why not end after 60 minutes in the regular season? Long time hockey fans never have a problem with the current system but what about trying to attract new fans? I have heard so many fans over the years say "what a waste, we spent 2 hours watching a game that no one won". I have never been a huge fan of the shootout, but I do enjoy the 3v3 and have heard alot of fans make comments about how exciting it is to watch.
If everyone doesn't have a problem with ties, then why not end after 60 minutes in the regular season? Long time hockey fans never have a problem with the current system but what about trying to attract new fans? I have heard so many fans over the years say "what a waste, we spent 2 hours watching a game that no one won". I have never been a huge fan of the shootout, but I do enjoy the 3v3 and have heard alot of fans make comments about how exciting it is to watch.
I don't think I have ever encountered anybody so enraged by a tie that they didn't come back again. If the product is good they will come back. And now that you bring it up, I actually would be fine with no OT at all in regular season. You have 60 minutes, figure it out! Incentivize winning in conference standings. Like European soccer, they are ok with ties. 3 points for winning, one point for a tie.
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
Re: Rule Changes?
Rule 91 - Tied Games
91.1 Tied Games - Regular Season - All regular-season games that remain tied after 60 minutes of play shall conduct a sudden-death overtime period of five minutes. No alternative systems (e.g., reduced manpower, shootouts, etc.) are permitted, with the exception of regular-season tournaments that require a team to advance. The following procedure shall be followed:
1. There shall be a two-minute intermission.
2. The teams shall change ends at the end of each period.
3. A five-minute period shall be played (5-on-5).
4. The team that scores first wins and the game is ended. If a goal is not scored in the five-minute period, the game shall be declared a tie.
If either team declines to play in the necessary overtime period, the game
shall be declared a loss for that team.
91.2 Tied Games - Regular Season - Conference Policy Formats - If the game remains tied after the provisions used in Rule 91.1, by conference policy only, a five-minute, 3-on-3 overtime may be played, followed by a sudden-death shootout, OR a shootout may be used immediately after the mandatory five-minute sudden death overtime. Non-conference games may not use this provision.
91.3 Tied Games - Penalties - Any overtime period shall be considered part of the game and all unexpired penalties shall remain in force.
91.4 Tied Games - Postseason Tournament Competition - Where advancement in a bracket or the determination of a tournament champion is necessary, any series in a format (e.g., single game, minigame series) that results in a tie shall be broken by 20-minute, sudden-death overtime periods. The ice shall be resurfaced upon completion of regulation play. The teams shall change ends at the end of each period (except as indicated in Rule 90.2). In each overtime, at the first stoppage of play under the 10-minute mark, an ice maintenance timeout of one-minute in duration will be administered. Teams may return to their benches at this time. Third-place games may follow the overtime procedures as described in Rule 91.
91.5 Tied Games - Regular-Season Tournaments - Regular-season tournaments that require a winner for advancement purposes may use the options in Rule 91.2 or 91.4, provided the teams participating in the tournament are notified what procedure will be utilized in advance of the event. The minigame is only allowed in postseason tournaments.
91.6 Shootout - Only games that end in a tie and require team advancement during a regular-season tournament may be broken by use of a shootout under the following conditions:
1. Teams play a standard five-minute (5 on 5) overtime.
2. If game remains tied after the five-minute overtime, it shall officially be recorded as a tie.
3. Teams participating in a tournament must be notified prior to the tournament that the shootout option will be used.
The rules were written to allow in-season tournament games to go directly to a 20-minute sudden death overtime, like the Beanpot did in 2019. However, last summer the rule was "clarified" to state even in-season tournament games must use the 5-minutes overtime and then officially be considered a tie. Having seen the "clarification" in three Beanpot games I hope that the rules committee* supports going back to allowing in-season tournament games to go directly to 20-minute overtimes and recording the game as a win-loss.
Sean
*stupid, stupid rat creatures
Not quite correct. The rules are already in place for both conference and in season tournament games that remain tied:
Rule 91 - Tied Games
91.1 Tied Games - Regular Season - All regular-season games that remain tied after 60 minutes of play shall conduct a sudden-death overtime period of five minutes. No alternative systems (e.g., reduced manpower, shootouts, etc.) are permitted, with the exception of regular-season tournaments that require a team to advance. The following procedure shall be followed:
1. There shall be a two-minute intermission.
2. The teams shall change ends at the end of each period.
3. A five-minute period shall be played (5-on-5).
4. The team that scores first wins and the game is ended. If a goal is not scored in the five-minute period, the game shall be declared a tie.
If either team declines to play in the necessary overtime period, the game
shall be declared a loss for that team.
91.2 Tied Games - Regular Season - Conference Policy Formats - If the game remains tied after the provisions used in Rule 91.1, by conference policy only, a five-minute, 3-on-3 overtime may be played, followed by a sudden-death shootout, OR a shootout may be used immediately after the mandatory five-minute sudden death overtime. Non-conference games may not use this provision.
91.3 Tied Games - Penalties - Any overtime period shall be considered part of the game and all unexpired penalties shall remain in force.
91.4 Tied Games - Postseason Tournament Competition - Where advancement in a bracket or the determination of a tournament champion is necessary, any series in a format (e.g., single game, minigame series) that results in a tie shall be broken by 20-minute, sudden-death overtime periods. The ice shall be resurfaced upon completion of regulation play. The teams shall change ends at the end of each period (except as indicated in Rule 90.2). In each overtime, at the first stoppage of play under the 10-minute mark, an ice maintenance timeout of one-minute in duration will be administered. Teams may return to their benches at this time. Third-place games may follow the overtime procedures as described in Rule 91.
91.5 Tied Games - Regular-Season Tournaments - Regular-season tournaments that require a winner for advancement purposes may use the options in Rule 91.2 or 91.4, provided the teams participating in the tournament are notified what procedure will be utilized in advance of the event. The minigame is only allowed in postseason tournaments.
91.6 Shootout - Only games that end in a tie and require team advancement during a regular-season tournament may be broken by use of a shootout under the following conditions:
1. Teams play a standard five-minute (5 on 5) overtime.
2. If game remains tied after the five-minute overtime, it shall officially be recorded as a tie.
3. Teams participating in a tournament must be notified prior to the tournament that the shootout option will be used.
The rules were written to allow in-season tournament games to go directly to a 20-minute sudden death overtime, like the Beanpot did in 2019. However, last summer the rule was "clarified" to state even in-season tournament games must use the 5-minutes overtime and then officially be considered a tie. Having seen the "clarification" in three Beanpot games I hope that the rules committee* supports going back to allowing in-season tournament games to go directly to 20-minute overtimes and recording the game as a win-loss.
Sean
*stupid, stupid rat creatures
Re: Rule Changes?
If I understand correctly, you are pointing out that conferences cannot 'do what they want', but rather they have a limited list of choices. Is that a correct interpretation?
If I understand correctly, you are pointing out that conferences cannot 'do what they want', but rather they have a limited list of choices. Is that a correct interpretation?
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
Re: Rule Changes?
NCAA ICE HOCKEY 2016-17 AND 2017-18 RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS
Rule 91 - Tied Games
91.1 Tied Games - If the score is tied at the end of three regulation 20-minute periods, the following shall take place (Exception: See 91.3):
1. There shall be a two-minute intermission.
2. The teams shall change ends at the end of each period.
3. A five-minute period shall be played.
4. The team that scores first wins and the game is ended. If a goal is not scored in the five-minute period, the game shall be declared a tie.
5. By conference policy or mutual consent of the participating teams, 4-on-4 is an approved way to play the five-minute overtime period.
6. By conference policy, a five-minute, 3-on-3 overtime may be played, followed by a sudden-death shootout, may be used.
If either team declines to play in the necessary overtime period, the game
shall be declared a loss for that team.
91.3 Shootout - Any game that results in a tie may be broken by use of a shootout under the following conditions:
1. Teams play a standard five-minute overtime.
2. If game remains tied after the five-minute overtime, it shall officially be recorded as a tie.
3. Teams participating in a tournament must be notified not later than October 1 of the upcoming season that the shootout option will be used.
4. By conference policy or mutual consent of the participating teams, a shootout may be used in any tie game after the five-minute overtime period.
91.4 Tied Games - Tournament Competition - Where advancement in a bracket or the determination of a tournament champion is necessary, any series in a format (e.g., single game, minigame series) that results in a tie shall be broken by 20-minute, sudden-death overtime periods (Exception: See 91.3). The ice shall be resurfaced upon completion of regulation play. The teams shall change ends at the end of each period (except as indicated in Rule 90.2). In each overtime, at the first stoppage of play under the ten minute mark, an ice maintenance timeout of one-minute in duration will be administered. Teams may return to their benches at this time. Thirdplace games may follow the overtime procedures as described in Rule 91.
Wanting to standardize overtime was a good idea, but I'm still against the "clarification" of the current rule. Of course, if they go to 3x3 overtime the in-season tournaments will have to be allowed to have an immediate 5x5 20-minute overtime unless they want to either have 5-minutes of 3x3 and then go back to 5x5, or have all of the overtime be 3x3.
Sean
Yes. As I recall the rules committee was originally going to recommend eliminating the conference option, but push back was strong enough for them to recommend the current option. Previously the rules allowed going directly to either a 4x4 or 3x3 overtime period:
NCAA ICE HOCKEY 2016-17 AND 2017-18 RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS
Rule 91 - Tied Games
91.1 Tied Games - If the score is tied at the end of three regulation 20-minute periods, the following shall take place (Exception: See 91.3):
1. There shall be a two-minute intermission.
2. The teams shall change ends at the end of each period.
3. A five-minute period shall be played.
4. The team that scores first wins and the game is ended. If a goal is not scored in the five-minute period, the game shall be declared a tie.
5. By conference policy or mutual consent of the participating teams, 4-on-4 is an approved way to play the five-minute overtime period.
6. By conference policy, a five-minute, 3-on-3 overtime may be played, followed by a sudden-death shootout, may be used.
If either team declines to play in the necessary overtime period, the game
shall be declared a loss for that team.
91.3 Shootout - Any game that results in a tie may be broken by use of a shootout under the following conditions:
1. Teams play a standard five-minute overtime.
2. If game remains tied after the five-minute overtime, it shall officially be recorded as a tie.
3. Teams participating in a tournament must be notified not later than October 1 of the upcoming season that the shootout option will be used.
4. By conference policy or mutual consent of the participating teams, a shootout may be used in any tie game after the five-minute overtime period.
91.4 Tied Games - Tournament Competition - Where advancement in a bracket or the determination of a tournament champion is necessary, any series in a format (e.g., single game, minigame series) that results in a tie shall be broken by 20-minute, sudden-death overtime periods (Exception: See 91.3). The ice shall be resurfaced upon completion of regulation play. The teams shall change ends at the end of each period (except as indicated in Rule 90.2). In each overtime, at the first stoppage of play under the ten minute mark, an ice maintenance timeout of one-minute in duration will be administered. Teams may return to their benches at this time. Thirdplace games may follow the overtime procedures as described in Rule 91.
Wanting to standardize overtime was a good idea, but I'm still against the "clarification" of the current rule. Of course, if they go to 3x3 overtime the in-season tournaments will have to be allowed to have an immediate 5x5 20-minute overtime unless they want to either have 5-minutes of 3x3 and then go back to 5x5, or have all of the overtime be 3x3.
Sean
Slap Shot
I got nothing
JohnsonsJerseys
Michigan Tech Fan
Re: Rule Changes?
When it comes to a tie or not a tie, do whatever you want to entertain the fans, but the points are to be awarded based on regular 5v5 hockey, not 4v4, not 3v3 and not an all-star skills competition event.
I do like that there is a juncture where the NCAA throws in the towel and says "Anything that happens after this moment doesn't matter to us. It is a tie game..." I would like to see OT be 10 minutes for NCAA purposes, but I'm ok with 5 min.
There should also be a rule in place that embellishment may NOT be called for the same play where a minor or major penalty was called. There are only two possibilities:
An infraction DID occur.
An infraction did NOT occur.
I'm so tired of seeing matching penalties in these cases. So essentially the ref is saying:
"Yes, the player was crosschecked and that is a penalty so I raised my arm so everyone knew that was against the rules. But then I didn't like the way the player fell down after they got crosschecked so I'm not going to really penalize the offending team..."
When it comes to a tie or not a tie, do whatever you want to entertain the fans, but the points are to be awarded based on regular 5v5 hockey, not 4v4, not 3v3 and not an all-star skills competition event.
I do like that there is a juncture where the NCAA throws in the towel and says "Anything that happens after this moment doesn't matter to us. It is a tie game..." I would like to see OT be 10 minutes for NCAA purposes, but I'm ok with 5 min.
There should also be a rule in place that embellishment may NOT be called for the same play where a minor or major penalty was called. There are only two possibilities:
An infraction DID occur.
An infraction did NOT occur.
I'm so tired of seeing matching penalties in these cases. So essentially the ref is saying:
"Yes, the player was crosschecked and that is a penalty so I raised my arm so everyone knew that was against the rules. But then I didn't like the way the player fell down after they got crosschecked so I'm not going to really penalize the offending team..."
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Re: Rule Changes?
There is nothing dumber than giving out more total points for a game that goes to overtime than for a game that does not like the NHL does. You are incentivizing low scoring hockey that results in a lot of regulation ties by doing this.
There is nothing dumber than giving out more total points for a game that goes to overtime than for a game that does not like the NHL does. You are incentivizing low scoring hockey that results in a lot of regulation ties by doing this.
Re: Rule Changes?
Delay of game penalty for attempting a change during an icing or other situation where the offending team is not allowed to change (hand pass in defensive zone, etc).
Eliminate the blue line during 3-on-3 OT. Let's face it, that's not going anywhere. May as well make it more exciting.
On a similar subject, no extra timeout for games going into OT except postseason games that go multiple OTs (additional timeout not awarded until start of 2nd OT).
I like the delay of game penalty for lost coach's challenge, although I would cap it at 2 lost challenges per game.
Delay of game penalty for attempting a change during an icing or other situation where the offending team is not allowed to change (hand pass in defensive zone, etc).
Eliminate the blue line during 3-on-3 OT. Let's face it, that's not going anywhere. May as well make it more exciting.
On a similar subject, no extra timeout for games going into OT except postseason games that go multiple OTs (additional timeout not awarded until start of 2nd OT).
I like the delay of game penalty for lost coach's challenge, although I would cap it at 2 lost challenges per game.
Re: Rule Changes?
Just my own thoughts, but I like the NCAA rule about overtime. Since different situations (conference play, Beanpot, etc) require different methods, I like it that the NCAA says....
Do what it necessary among these options....but after 5 min of 5v5 OT, it's a tie to us. That is a rule that makes perfect sense. Now, for Sean's sake, I would like a slight adjustment..... Beanpot Final: Horn at 5 min (NCAA tie game). No ice re-surfacing, no nothing. Immediate restart with 15 min on clock for OT....And, continue.
If the NCAA wants to give the conferences liberty (and they do - for example, each conf has the right to make their own rules about postseason tournaments and the auto-bid, and you don't want the NCAA overseeing that), then my personal opinion is that there is no perfect rule as to what the conferences should do for OT. I'd be fine with nothing after the 5 min, actually.
As for diving/embellishment.....It seems like this: Diving is trying to draw a call when there was no infraction. So, if diving is called, there can't be hooking, or slashing or anything else. Embellishment goes along with another infraction - it's an effort to make it look worse to draw a call. So, if embellishment is called, there needs to be holding or hooking or something as well. But, NOT a major penalty. If a major is called, there can't be embellishment, because it's so serious already that the victim couldn't have tried to make it look worse.
Just my own thoughts, but I like the NCAA rule about overtime. Since different situations (conference play, Beanpot, etc) require different methods, I like it that the NCAA says....
Do what it necessary among these options....but after 5 min of 5v5 OT, it's a tie to us. That is a rule that makes perfect sense. Now, for Sean's sake, I would like a slight adjustment..... Beanpot Final: Horn at 5 min (NCAA tie game). No ice re-surfacing, no nothing. Immediate restart with 15 min on clock for OT....And, continue.
If the NCAA wants to give the conferences liberty (and they do - for example, each conf has the right to make their own rules about postseason tournaments and the auto-bid, and you don't want the NCAA overseeing that), then my personal opinion is that there is no perfect rule as to what the conferences should do for OT. I'd be fine with nothing after the 5 min, actually.
As for diving/embellishment.....It seems like this: Diving is trying to draw a call when there was no infraction. So, if diving is called, there can't be hooking, or slashing or anything else. Embellishment goes along with another infraction - it's an effort to make it look worse to draw a call. So, if embellishment is called, there needs to be holding or hooking or something as well. But, NOT a major penalty. If a major is called, there can't be embellishment, because it's so serious already that the victim couldn't have tried to make it look worse.
purpleinnebraska
Well-known member
Re: Rule Changes?
I don't disagree that it's dumb to have 2 and 3 point games. But what I find outrageously dumb with the college rules versus the NHL is with why college plays a 5v5 5 minute overtime...and then calls a game a tie for points purposes. You already had 60 minutes of 5v5. So now we have a system where some games are 60 minutes, and some are 65. If a 3v3 or shootout win shouldn't count as much as a regulation win, why should a 64th minute win count the same as a regulation win?
I don't disagree that it's dumb to have 2 and 3 point games. But what I find outrageously dumb with the college rules versus the NHL is with why college plays a 5v5 5 minute overtime...and then calls a game a tie for points purposes. You already had 60 minutes of 5v5. So now we have a system where some games are 60 minutes, and some are 65. If a 3v3 or shootout win shouldn't count as much as a regulation win, why should a 64th minute win count the same as a regulation win?
Re: Rule Changes?
I suppose the reason is.....college games are operating under 2 different kinds of oversight: NCAA and "whatever Conference you are in....or....whoever organized the Beanpot or whatever the name of the tourney is"
NCAA rules are w/l/t....so, play 60 min. Then, play OT (no need to play 65 min if the score is 6-1. But, if it's 2-2, you MIGHT get a winner in 5 minutes). These are essentially the NHL rules which existed prior to the 4v4 or the SO rules. No one ever complained about the 5 min OT.
Then, there are the organizers' rules, which are different.
I agree...it seems hashed together, but when you consider that there are 2 different governing bodies, you can understand why it is that way.
NCAA has some strangeness in this way as well......All regular season games, including Beanpot-style tourneys, are called ties for NCAA PWR purposes at 65 min. But, conference tourney games are not so. They all go to a win or loss. Why is that?
I suppose the reason is.....college games are operating under 2 different kinds of oversight: NCAA and "whatever Conference you are in....or....whoever organized the Beanpot or whatever the name of the tourney is"
NCAA rules are w/l/t....so, play 60 min. Then, play OT (no need to play 65 min if the score is 6-1. But, if it's 2-2, you MIGHT get a winner in 5 minutes). These are essentially the NHL rules which existed prior to the 4v4 or the SO rules. No one ever complained about the 5 min OT.
Then, there are the organizers' rules, which are different.
I agree...it seems hashed together, but when you consider that there are 2 different governing bodies, you can understand why it is that way.
NCAA has some strangeness in this way as well......All regular season games, including Beanpot-style tourneys, are called ties for NCAA PWR purposes at 65 min. But, conference tourney games are not so. They all go to a win or loss. Why is that?
JohnsonsJerseys
Michigan Tech Fan
Re: Rule Changes?
Back when college football starting doing their dumb overtime "mini-field" games, Mike Golic put it best (and I'm paraphrasing here) Why do we play real football for 60 minutes to determine a winner and if that doesn't work then you get this circus of getting the ball at the 20 yard line determines a winner. That's exactly what playing hockey with less than five skaters is... something other than the game of hockey.
If the world wasn't ok with low scoring or ties in sporting events, Soccer (sorry, football as everyone else calls it) would have been wiped off the planet decades ago.
Giving a team a point in the standings because they have one guy that can put a puck past the goalie in a trick shot competition is NOT hockey. I'm not saying you can't have shootouts, but stop awarding conference points based on them.
Because it is played under the same rules as regulation time would be my argument. But awarding points for some other kind of game with sticks and pucks is a "no" for me.
Back when college football starting doing their dumb overtime "mini-field" games, Mike Golic put it best (and I'm paraphrasing here) Why do we play real football for 60 minutes to determine a winner and if that doesn't work then you get this circus of getting the ball at the 20 yard line determines a winner. That's exactly what playing hockey with less than five skaters is... something other than the game of hockey.
If the world wasn't ok with low scoring or ties in sporting events, Soccer (sorry, football as everyone else calls it) would have been wiped off the planet decades ago.
Giving a team a point in the standings because they have one guy that can put a puck past the goalie in a trick shot competition is NOT hockey. I'm not saying you can't have shootouts, but stop awarding conference points based on them.
Re: Rule Changes?
I don't have a problem with calling both hooking and embellishment/diving at the same time if it's egregious. The embellishment would come after the initial infraction really. Any attempt at curtailing theatrics on the ice is fine by me. Unless you guys are suggesting simply calling embellishment then. I would also be ok with that.
I really don't view 4v4 OT as a gimmick or that it's not "real" hockey. Shootout, yes. But 4 v 4 is the logical next step if you want to reduce ties. Or a 10 minute 5 v 5 OT. But I would go with a 4v4 five minute OT and if nobody scores it's a tie. No shootout, everyone go home.
I don't have a problem with calling both hooking and embellishment/diving at the same time if it's egregious. The embellishment would come after the initial infraction really. Any attempt at curtailing theatrics on the ice is fine by me. Unless you guys are suggesting simply calling embellishment then. I would also be ok with that.
I really don't view 4v4 OT as a gimmick or that it's not "real" hockey. Shootout, yes. But 4 v 4 is the logical next step if you want to reduce ties. Or a 10 minute 5 v 5 OT. But I would go with a 4v4 five minute OT and if nobody scores it's a tie. No shootout, everyone go home.
Re: Rule Changes?
embellishment and diving are 2 different things to me. The words mean things. Embellishment.....You can't embellish something that doesn't exist. So, yes, you can have a hook, and also embellishment at the same time. But, diving, in my mind, is total fakery. No infraction, just acting to get a call. "Diving" if defined that way, must be called on its own.
embellishment and diving are 2 different things to me. The words mean things. Embellishment.....You can't embellish something that doesn't exist. So, yes, you can have a hook, and also embellishment at the same time. But, diving, in my mind, is total fakery. No infraction, just acting to get a call. "Diving" if defined that way, must be called on its own.