RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Vermont was in the same situation and they did not sink to the bottom, yet.
A 22 game schedule will leave you with plenty of games to play Union,Clarkson and Cornell.
In Hockey East most everyone would be within 3 hours except UNH 4 hours, 3 1/2 if they play you in Manchester. Maine and Notre Dame would be 2 hour flights with only one of them each year, the other would come to Troy. Of course the bus ride to South Bend is another 1 1/2 hours. Bangor International Airport is a short distance from Orono. Other than Union, UMass is the closest D1 Hockey school to RPI, not counting AIC. You could bring the whole school there and still not fill their massive arena.

Due to my current absence of internet access, I have not read everything about the revived possibility of "RPI --> HE". You stated 22 games. That would mean that HEA would be going to 2 games vs everyone with 12 teams. Has that been mentioned, or is it still possible that they would play some teams more than twice?

I am too lazy to check being that I am at Starbucks, but is UMA closer than Army? Edit: Never mind.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Sitting at the bottom of the table in the HEA is not going to bring notoriety to the school nor is it going to put it in the national spotlight. You can't assume that we'll come in and be instantly competitive. That is a fool's argument.

It might bring notoriety. (see all the MTU threads. )

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

We tied Northeastern in their building and punked BU last year...so I don't understand all this sitting @ the bottom talk !!!!

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

The idea of RPI going to HE has come up many times since the early 1980's. My opinion has vacillated over the years. I can see the arguments on both sides, as well probably can.

At the time of the great breakup, RPI was at the top of the world of college hcokey with a coach with NE roots. At that time, the academic issues and staying with our primary rivals won out. (There also were rumors of CCT and SLU also going to HE.)

At this time the biggest question in my mind is how SA and the Colonel feel about this, since I have no doubt that the admins still feel that the ECAC makes more sense. (Membership in the HE might help somewhat in getting students in NE interested in RPI, but I think that the admins regard the Ivy issue as more important.) I don't recall SA ever mentioning going to HE. Undoubtedly he would like the better competion, and we still could play Union several times a year, as he likes, if the HE went to a 22-game schedule.

BTW, I wonder how HE would implement 22-game schedule. Travel partners seem impossible especially with ND as one of the schools. Would it be a 2-game series alternating venue ever other year? (Some comblos, like the Boston schools, could have home and home every year.)

 

[redhead18]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

The idea of RPI going to HE has come up many times since the early 1980's. My opinion has vacillated over the years. I can see the arguments on both sides, as well probably can.

At the time of the great breakup, RPI was at the top of the world of college hcokey with a coach with NE roots. At that time, the academic issues and staying with our primary rivals won out. (There also were rumors of CCT and SLU also going to HE.)

At this time the biggest question in my mind is how SA and the Colonel feel about this, since I have no doubt that the admins still feel that the ECAC makes more sense. (Membership in the HE might help somewhat in getting students in NE interested in RPI, but I think that the admins regard the Ivy issue as more important.) I don't recall SA ever mentioning going to HE. Undoubtedly he would like the better competion, and we still could play Union several times a year, as he likes, if the HE went to a 22-game schedule.

BTW, I wonder how HE would implement 22-game schedule. Travel partners seem impossible especially with ND as one of the schools. Would it be a 2-game series alternating venue ever other year? (Some comblos, like the Boston schools, could have home and home every year.)

From what Ive been hearing is everyone except ND would play a home and home at some point during the season(doesnt mean on back to back nights). When a team plays ND it would be a 2-game set either at home or in South Bend. So RPI would travel out to ND every other season.

I think $$$ would play an important role in the decision as well. Not quite sure how it works but doesnt each school get a chunk of money from its conference tournament? So wouldnt RPI be getting a larger check from a sold out or nearly sold out TD Garden then a 3/4 empty Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City? Would that offset the amount they could possibly lose by not playing CCT and Cornell every season? I wasnt around when ECAC tournament was in Boston but how cool would it be for RPI to be in the HE semi-finals against BU or BC in front of a sold out crowd at the Garden...

How well do HE team fan bases travel? I know BU brings a decent crowd for a non-conference game.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

but how cool would it be for RPI to be in the HE semi-finals against BU or BC in front of a sold out crowd at the Garden...

But there would be more of them than RPI fans. It's the opposite of what the situation was in Albany. Oops, we never tested that.

How well do HE team fan bases travel? I know BU brings a decent crowd for a non-conference game.

They travel better on average than ECAC schools, but that probably is mainly due to being bigger schools on average.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Has there been anything in the Record in the last month or so about RPI hockey? Nothing has appeared on line, but they don't post everything.

 

[Jasma]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

No where can you compare Colgate and Union to the major Universities, they are in different categories. Providence is ranked in the same category as Villanova, right behind them, 1 & 2.
Merrimack just completed a major upgrade with all chair seats and IIRC Providence is all chair seats as well although dated. From my point of view Vermont has the worst rink in Hockey East.
Being on the western edge of Hockey East is still closer than being in the center of the ECAC. Hockey East is the most tight knit geographic college hockey league by far.

I was comparing the institutions based on academic achievement by their students and Colgate and Union have students with better test scores and better academic credentials than all but BC and BU..

RPI has no 8-hour trips in the ECAC as they would with Maine. Hockey East has much to offer RPI in hockey terms with a better league infrastructure, TV package and the high-profile hockey nature of UNH, Maine, BU and BC. The academic, geographic and philosophic differences have always been sticking points for the RPI administration. They would much rather be associated with the Ivies than the schools in HE. I don't think that has changed.

If you put chair backs in the Roman Coliseum it would still be a ruin. The Providence rink is old and small and nobody goes to the games.

 

[johnk]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I'm not going to get into alot of particulars on the move to Hockey East unless it becomes more of a possibility but I cannot believe that anyone who has followed RPI hockey or college hockey for any length of time would be against it. Quality of hockey, attendance, recruiting all major positives without any of the so called diminishing of academic standards by association, which is a bunch of garbage anyways!

 

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

It's nice speculation but as many of you know the landscape in College Hockey is changing. Atlantic Hockey had a vote the other day on whether to provide more scholarships to become more competitive with the rest of the leagues. It was voted down and RIT was one of the teams that voted to up the scholarships. RIT might be headed to ECAC under some of the scenarios with the other teams (that voted for more) joining with the CCHA teams left in the cold. What's the point, we need to think about our future. We don't want to be left holding the bag in a substandard league with Clarkson and SLU when maybe the Ivies bolt (I know, I know Penn has to field a team). I think we would be more likely to retain our great Coach if we played in a better league also. Plus we could get drunk over in Boston when we play BU and BC, etc. We need to factor in our alcholic intake and partying.

 

[Timmah!]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

This entire discussion is borderline ridiculous...but since I am bored, I figured I would chime in. I'm sure I am rehashing much of what has already been said, but I don't particularly care. The chips are going to fall as they will, and nothing we post here is going to change it.

The way I see it, there are two worthwhile reasons to stay in the ECAC...traditional rivalries and the academic associations to the Ivy league. As far as the rivalries with Union, Clarkson, and Cornell...if they truly are a priority for the team, they will find ways to retain those traditions regardless of conference affiliations. (not dissimilar from the relationship we have with BU today) The Ivy association...yes, there is a proximity halo effect that we maintain by playing the Ivy league, though in my personal view, I think we give it more credit than it deserves. Our national reputation should be largely based on the fact that we are a world class university, not based on the fact that we play Ivy league teams in hockey.

Any geography argument is weak to me. Notre Dame aside, HEA is a bus league, just like the ECAC. Granted, it is nice having Union right next door and being centrally located in the ECAC footprint. Travel costs would undoubtedly increase switching to HEA, but look at what we would gain. Yes, Maine is a long drive...but it's Maine. We trade increased travel costs for perennial matchups against top ranked teams. Not to mention the financial perks of being associated with HEA and its conference tourney/tv deals. A fair trade if you ask me.

If RPI made a switch to HEA, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest we would be a doormat. As an ECAC team, we have had reasonable success against HEA teams. Our odds only get better with improved recruitment, and experience playing in HEA. Of course, it would be harder for us to earn an HEA autobid, but potentially easier to earn an at large. Quite frankly, if an NCAA title is our goal, our team will have to be highly competitive in a league like Hockey East. Recent history has shown us that even world beaters in the ECAC have struggled in the NCAA tourney. Dominating a weaker league and hoping to become hot in the playoffs occasionally works, but is not terribly reliable.

In the event that a move to HEA were even on the table (which I doubt), my gut feel is that the RPI administration will do as they have done, and stick with the Ivies until the Ivies tell us to go away. From a competitive standpoint I feel that that is a mistake. The HEA would give us our best chance at a national title.

 

[Jasma]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I'm not going to get into alot of particulars on the move to Hockey East unless it becomes more of a possibility but I cannot believe that anyone who has followed RPI hockey or college hockey for any length of time would be against it. Qulaity of hockey, attendance, recruiting all major positives without any of the so called diminishing of academic standards by association, which is a bunch of garbage anyways!

Well said. This is all very premature and very speculative, but it is the off-season. Most of us would like to see RPI move, but it is highly unlikely, unless the Ivies bolt.

 

[Senna]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

nothing to do with RPI hockey but watch this kid handle the puck....WOW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32aEQd8DcKU&feature=related

My favorite 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFh7N1Dy3Qw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SalVCvlVJmo&feature=related

Sorry for not being RPI Hockey related....but i cant get enough of this sport and think this is just insane skillwise.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Many of the posters on the thread in reference to any possible move by RPI out of the ECAC keep mentioning the possibility of the Ivy League schools bolting. Realistically-what is the chance of that happening? What would they gain and what would they lose by doing so? I only ask this because it seems to me that their leaving and forming their own league may be the only way that RPI leaves and joins HE.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

In the event that a move to HEA were even on the table (which I doubt), my gut feel is that the RPI administration will do as they have done, and stick with the Ivies until the Ivies tell us to go away. From a competitive standpoint I feel that that is a mistake. The HEA would give us our best chance at a national title.

Took out the first few parts because not only do I agree, but I think I had also mentioned in my "position" (yes, I'm not a stakeholder, but I can still have an opinion to voice). One thing I believe should be considered, and this I wouldn't know the answer because I wasn't following college hockey back then: Is there any difference between administrative hockey support now, and administrative hockey support back in the mid-to-late 80's, when this move possibility was also being discussed? Given what Coach Appert has been doing for the program from a standpoint of recruiting and national prominence, it seems from what I can see that we're getting some strong administrative support now (independent of other times; I'm not making a comparison). Look at the contract extensions, the new renovations, heck even ECAV! I wouldn't be surprised if the RPI administration were to back a program desire to move to HEA, should it be desired. I don't think the school is dumping millions of dollars into an athletic program just to see it remain mid-major.

Your point most definitely still stands that there must be an offer on the table from HEA to be accepted, and it currently is not.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Many of the posters on the thread in reference to any possible move by RPI out of the ECAC keep mentioning the possibility of the Ivy League schools bolting. Realistically-what is the chance of that happening? What would they gain and what would they lose by doing so? I only ask this because it seems to me that their leaving and forming their own league may be the only way that RPI leaves and joins HE.

Not unless the non-ivies start dominating the ECAC again. I won't re-hash the point about recent happenings because I've beaten it to death, but I could see that as being the only reason they'd leave.

 

[Timmah!]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Many of the posters on the thread in reference to any possible move by RPI out of the ECAC keep mentioning the possibility of the Ivy League schools bolting. Realistically-what is the chance of that happening? What would they gain and what would they lose by doing so? I only ask this because it seems to me that their leaving and forming their own league may be the only way that RPI leaves and joins HE.

It is extremely unlikely that the Ivies will leave. The only advantage I can see is getting an Ivy only autobid to the tourney. I think they lose far more than they gain by abandoning the rest of the conference. My statement about the Ivies telling us to go away was somewhat tongue in cheek. I agree with you that the Ivies breaking away is probably the only way we would ever see RPI join a new conference. Personally, if the upcoming "reshuffle" creates an opportunity for us to jump ship for HEA, I'm all for it.

 

[Timmah!]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Took out the first few parts because not only do I agree, but I think I had also mentioned in my "position" (yes, I'm not a stakeholder, but I can still have an opinion to voice). One thing I believe should be considered, and this I wouldn't know the answer because I wasn't following college hockey back then: Is there any difference between administrative hockey support now, and administrative hockey support back in the mid-to-late 80's, when this move possibility was also being discussed? Given what Coach Appert has been doing for the program from a standpoint of recruiting and national prominence, it seems from what I can see that we're getting some strong administrative support now (independent of other times; I'm not making a comparison). Look at the contract extensions, the new renovations, heck even ECAV! I wouldn't be surprised if the RPI administration were to back a program desire to move to HEA, should it be desired. I don't think the school is dumping millions of dollars into an athletic program just to see it remain mid-major.

I can't comment on the mindset of pre 2000's RPI administration, though I do have some insights on RPI's current mindset. As I'm sure you know, Shirley Ann Jackson has close ties to MIT. Having attended MIT for grad school, and talking personally with SAJ about the school, I can tell you that she looks to MIT as a model for what she would like RPI to become. MIT has spent many, many millions of dollars creating high end athletic facilities (check out the Z-Center)...despite the fact that their athletics programs are largely non-competitive, even at the division 3 level. High end athletics facilities help to attract students (including non athletes). RPI buildings like the iGym and the ECAV certainly boost our recruitment ability, but do not necessarily suggest a committment to moving out of the ECAC.

SAJ comes across as the kind of person who strongly values associations with elite institutions. My guess is that she (and hence the administration) doesn't view the ECAC as a mid-major conference with limited competitive potential, she instead views it as yet another link between RPI and the upper echelon schools in the US. As for contract extensions and program specific improvements...I remember a time early in her administration where it didn't seem like hockey was even on her radar. It appears that she has started to understand its importance to alumni, and has really come to bat for the team on several occassions. I like this recent commitment, though all of the moves appear to be geared at helping the team to excel, while maintaining the status quo. In my opinion, a move to HEA (short of mass Ivy defection), is outside of the box for what the administration is willing to accept in the current climate. I would be pleasantly surprised if I was wrong on this one though.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Plus we could get drunk over in Boston when we play BU and BC, etc. We need to factor in our alcholic intake and partying.

But not when we play Harvard?

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Is there anything to substantiate the rumor of RPI thinking about going to HE at this time? The only thing that I see is BC/HE posting a link of a ND to HE story and thinking that RPI would make sense as a 12th school.