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RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

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Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

Wicked Slappaahs said:
Can't disagree much. But would add that my main point about video review would take the "numb nuts" factor out of these types of calls.
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Should they choose to use it. Obviously I hope they do, because it means they're taking the time to get the call right, and regardless of which way the call goes, that's all we really can expect from the officials. Also, we do have to remember the human error issues. With video review, the evidence must be incontrovertible to overturn a call; i.e. if it's tough to tell, the original call must stand. Also, the call may not even be right after reviewing it, which I believe is something that burgie12 has cited from the Niagara game, in which the first goal didn't appear to go in, but was still signaled a goal. I was looking at the same thing the ref was looking at for the review, and it had looked good to me.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

FlagDUDE08 said:
Should they choose to use it. Obviously I hope they do, because it means they're taking the time to get the call right, and regardless of which way the call goes, that's all we really can expect from the officials. Also, we do have to remember the human error issues. With video review, the evidence must be incontrovertible to overturn a call; i.e. if it's tough to tell, the original call must stand. Also, the call may not even be right after reviewing it, which I believe is something that burgie12 has cited from the Niagara game, in which the first goal didn't appear to go in, but was still signaled a goal. I was looking at the same thing the ref was looking at for the review, and it had looked good to me.
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Of course nothing is foolproof. Bottom line - its a basic tool that needs to be implemented to get more calls correct.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

redhead18 said:
With the recent string of head injuries going around, I wonder if RPI has any plans to start using those specialized helmets to help prevent these type of injuries. Something similar to the M11's that Harvard has been using the past couple years. I know that RPI uses Warrior equipment now but im not sure if the current helmets the team is wearing are made by Warrior or not. Might be something to look into in the near future.
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Slight correction - I believe they wear Easton helmets. Warrior does not make helmets. I'm sure the staff is on it, we have the best equipment manager in the business - Dana McGuane.
 
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Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

AspyDad said:
Slight correction - I believe they wear Easton helmets. Warrior does not make helmets. I'm sure the staff is on it, we have the best equipment manager in the business - Dana McGuane.
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Thanks, I knew they used to wear Easton gear but wasnt sure if they switched helmets when they signed on with Warrior. Since were on the subjuct of helmets the St. Cloud Times did an interesting piece over the weekend in regards to the WCHA considering switching from full face cages to the half shields.

http://www.sctimes.com/article/20101205/SPORTS0401/112050048/1002/SPORTS
 
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Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

AspyDad said:
Slight correction - I believe they wear Easton helmets. Warrior does not make helmets. I'm sure the staff is on it, we have the best equipment manager in the business - Dana McGuane.
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I've noticed Halpern is the only one on the team to wear a Bauer plastic facemask as opposed to the metal wire style; I assume this is more of a personal preference than a safety decision? I've been noticing more and more members of opposing teams wearing the plastic facemasks.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

AspyDad said:
See this smacks of the pervebial ECAC make up call. I hate when it happens to us. I hear your sentiment but they should not have to "make up" calls. IMO, I would point you to a quote by Tom Reale regarding the Union debacle, " These "makeup" and "even-up" calls compound previous mistakes made by the referees. Nobody's perfect, but assuming that the referees are unbiased (and they almost certainly are), bad calls are going to go both ways, even at the highest levels. When referees decide to try and pay back the team that got screwed, it only gets worse."

Source - http://www.withoutapeer.com/2010/11/just-get-it-right-not-quite.html

BTW- Tom is quickly becoming the best hockey writer in the area and maybe the country.
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What I was suggesting is that by putting Hicks in a game that is nationally televised shows major support for Hicks and his "talent" as a ref. I was not suggesting that he will give us a "make-up" call. I am suggesting he will call it as it is-something he did not do in RPI /Union game-and all any hockey fan truly wants. I don't think the Union players loves the fact that they won a game because a tie was taken from another team. JMO
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

RHamilton said:
I've noticed Halpern is the only one on the team to wear a Bauer plastic facemask as opposed to the metal wire style; I assume this is more of a personal preference than a safety decision? I've been noticing more and more members of opposing teams wearing the plastic facemasks.
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Personal preference. Some kids prefer the clarity that plexi provides and will put up with sweat/fog/wiping, while others prefer and/or have gotten used to seeing through the wire cages.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

redhead18 said:
Thanks, I knew they used to wear Easton gear but wasnt sure if they switched helmets when they signed on with Warrior. Since were on the subjuct of helmets the St. Cloud Times did an interesting piece over the weekend in regards to the WCHA considering switching from full face cages to the half shields.

http://www.sctimes.com/article/20101205/SPORTS0401/112050048/1002/SPORTS
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I say bring 'em on. Way too much stick "Courage" since the full cages were implemented. I don't have any expectations that the ECAC will consider it anytime soon.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

Wicked Slappaahs said:
I say bring 'em on. Way too much stick "Courage" since the full cages were implemented. I don't have any expectations that the ECAC will consider it anytime soon.
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Id like to see it happen also but would hope it would be a NCAA wide change and not just a WCHA rule.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

Wicked Slappaahs said:
Personal preference. Some kids prefer the clarity that plexi provides and will put up with sweat/fog/wiping, while others prefer and/or have gotten used to seeing through the wire cages.
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Basiuk is the only player I can think of in recent memory besides Halpern to use that style mask.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

redhead18 said:
Id like to see it happen also but would hope it would be a NCAA wide change and not just a WCHA rule.
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Good point RH. If the WCHA changed, then they'd end up in an odd situation where their OC opponents were wearing full cages, while they wore halfzees. Although that's happened -- I recall seeing a pic of Pirri with O'Grady at WJAC's with Pirri wearing a cage and Marty wearing a 1/2er.
 
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Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

IMO said:
What I was suggesting is that by putting Hicks in a game that is nationally televised shows major support for Hicks and his "talent" as a ref. I was not suggesting that he will give us a "make-up" call. I am suggesting he will call it as it is-something he did not do in RPI /Union game-and all any hockey fan truly wants. I don't think the Union players loves the fact that they won a game because a tie was taken from another team. JMO
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Sorry for misunderstanding on my part. Happy Holidays
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

Tinfoil hat on here: Hicks gets the assignment for the game because Stewart told him to make sure things look good for the ECAC. Hey, Hockey East, CCHA, and WCHA officials never have an issue with calling slanted games in favor of the team from the host conference. Provided he doesn't decide to slurp up to Jackie Parker and bow before the BU overlords, perhaps the BU faithful can head home wishing for Benedetto.

Too many times in the past ECAC officials have called games forgetting where their bread is buttered but this season has seen things change up a bit. Maybe Hicks is Stewart's ace in the hole for siding with the home team.

That said, the second Hicks makes a bad call in favor of BU, all bets are off and the fans will bury him.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

While the refs do sometimes play a role in the way a game plays out, in the end it is up to the team that is most prepared to take the ice and execute its game plan to perfection no matter how or what a ref calls during game play. Score the most goals so you do not put yourself in the situation where the ref may play a role, and win is usually the best way to solve any type of issue that may arise. Hopefully the right team wearing Red and White can do that on saturday and put whats the refs name out of the picture.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

fishcore12 said:
While the refs do sometimes play a role in the way a game plays out, in the end it is up to the team that is most prepared to take the ice and execute its game plan to perfection no matter how or what a ref calls during game play. Score the most goals so you do not put yourself in the situation where the ref may play a role, and win is usually the best way to solve any type of issue that may arise. Hopefully the right team wearing Red and White can do that on saturday and put whats the refs name out of the picture.
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Of course that is sensible and correct. But normally most hockey games are decided by at most 1 or 2 goals and many of these occur because of special teams play brought about by a penalty call or in some cases a double penalty call giving rise to a 5 on 3 situation. Referees are human and make mistakes. They are also susceptible to human foibles-like holding a grudge or having preconceptions of how a team should perform. In a perfect situation-a team could play well enough to overcome any of these 'errors' made by an official. But the truth is, these games are often decided by these calls. I sure would like to think that these situations where a bad call affects the outcome is rare, but after a lot of years of following hockey at all levels-I am just somewhat suspicious at times. I would be even more suspicious if hockey was a big betting and point spread sport like football and basketball. In those 2 sports the temptations must be great since they are such big betting sports. I still feel the great majority of calls in hockey (both college level and professional) are legitimate. But there are a few instances which make me blink a bit. Just my opinion.
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

Nice thread title, very Super Bowlesque. ;)
 
Re: RPI MMXI III: Overanalyzing The Iron Men and Other Uses of Internet Bandwidth

DrDemento said:
Of course that is sensible and correct. But normally most hockey games are decided by at most 1 or 2 goals and many of these occur because of special teams play brought about by a penalty call or in some cases a double penalty call giving rise to a 5 on 3 situation. Referees are human and make mistakes. They are also susceptible to human foibles-like holding a grudge or having preconceptions of how a team should perform. In a perfect situation-a team could play well enough to overcome any of these 'errors' made by an official. But the truth is, these games are often decided by these calls. I sure would like to think that these situations where a bad call affects the outcome is rare, but after a lot of years of following hockey at all levels-I am just somewhat suspicious at times. I would be even more suspicious if hockey was a big betting and point spread sport like football and basketball. In those 2 sports the temptations must be great since they are such big betting sports. I still feel the great majority of calls in hockey (both college level and professional) are legitimate. But there are a few instances which make me blink a bit. Just my opinion.
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I know the feeling of refs having a grudge or perception of a team. Makes winning titles even better when you do it.
 
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