RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

Let me add Will Reilly to that list....take the team we have and remove those 4 guys and tell me we would be better off

Reilly can't hit the net to save his life. I understand deflections are a thing, but the fact of the matter is he isn't coming close. Not to mention, even if the goalie gets in front of it, we've had a number of goals off the rebound with the centre crashing the net.

 

[fishcore12]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

So next season is the season we can finally Fire Flagdude? Kidding Flagdude. I'd just like to point out that the football and lacrosse teams are doing great under the current athletic administration. The current AD former employer you ask. UAlbany. He can and has done great things with certain sports programs at both UA and RPI. However, this is his first taste of D1 hockey (I'm fully aware UA has club hockey). I just wonder if he has anyone there kinda helping him out in terms of how to handle running a D1 hockey program outside of making/keeping connections with schools he worked with at UA.

 

[25+years]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

This is spot on. Graber absolutely dominated; size and skill. McElroy owns this; 3 years ago this program came in 5th and had 18 wins. He chose to make a change (which is his right) but has it gotten better. 2 back to back 11th places ( I think not). This is an inflection point for this storied program. Major recruiting defections, major roster defections and I really can't see what will change things in the recruiting pipeline.

So we come back to the same place again. You can look at Smith's recruits as "making a difference" and that Appert's didn't. But I think Hayhurst and a few others would argue otherwise. And some of the castoffs didn't have bad years elsewhere, albeit not at the D1 level . From what I read here, the incoming players won't make enough of a difference to change the dialog here. And after the last couple of games, you have to wonder if opposing teams have figured Savory out. Remember, at one time, both Perry and Marshall were "saving" the team. And nothing feels better for a goalie than to watch his team score 200 feet away. So the question remains....what will take this program a step or two up the ladder and make the program more appealing to recruits. I don't think , no matter how the coaches/recruiters try to portray it, 10th or 11th place is very compelling. So....if Smith cannot show progress next year, then what? I would argue that, short of wins or a big change in goals for or goals against, then one has to see some other aspect to want to come here for: a great facility or a proven, winning new coach. You can say "We are getting better" or "The guys are buying into the system" or "We can beat anyone on any given night" or the SA line "We still think we can make the NCAA's" all you want. But if the numbers say otherwise year in and year out, the response will continue to be "Thanks, but no thanks".

 

[sk8tronthepond]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

I can't tell if the students are on break or not anymore.
Place had luckily 1700 in attendance for the last home game. Unheard of 5 to 10 years ago.

I completely agree with this statement. The program has been fractured for a long time now and it will be very difficult to mend. It's not just the on-ice product. This year's team has definitely made some strides. However, that enigma still exists with RPI hockey that, no matter who is coaching, seems to show it's ugly head - a complete stinker of a weekend that comes out of nowhere - which you have to attribute to culture. For whatever reason, when players start feeling good about success, they don't understand how to perform as winners. They need to learn what it takes to win and then be consistent with that performance as a team. The winning culture will take longer than you think to establish - but I believe this program is on the right track. I will stand by my original statement - the student body is fractured - the fans are fractured - the alumni base is fractured - that is RPI today - and Coach Smith has his plate full.

 

[ServinisScores]

This is spot on. Graber absolutely dominated; size and skill. McElroy owns this; 3 years ago this program came in 5th and had 18 wins. He chose to make a change (which is his right) but has it gotten better. 2 back to back 11th places ( I think not). This is an inflection point for this storied program. Major recruiting defections, major roster defections and I really can't see what will change things in the recruiting pipeline.

Hello AspyDad, Before moving forward, I think you need to look at the bigger picture for the storied program you mention:
- last season RPI was in ECAC championship game - 2000
- last season RPI was in ECAC frozen four - 2002 (every other program has appeared at least once in this timeframe)
- major roster defections - Pirri, D’Amigo, Zalewski, Haggerty, et. al
- major recruiting defections - Huxley, Dillon, Quinn, et. al
- don’t forget Jim Montgomery saw fit to exit...

This historical data is only to say the issues (poor results, defections) you mention aren't a new thing for this program, nor an indictment of neither McElroy alone, nor Smith.

I don’t think anyone is going to say we have a new, clear path to undoing the damage done by the previous leadership regime. Frankly I didn't have that expectation when Smith was hired, and still don't. This team did show signs of life and playing together during the season, and cause for some optimism. Keyword - some.

Happy Sunday

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

So next season is the season we can finally Fire Flagdude? Kidding Flagdude. I'd just like to point out that the football and lacrosse teams are doing great under the current athletic administration. The current AD former employer you ask. UAlbany. He can and has done great things with certain sports programs at both UA and RPI. However, this is his first taste of D1 hockey (I'm fully aware UA has club hockey). I just wonder if he has anyone there kinda helping him out in terms of how to handle running a D1 hockey program outside of making/keeping connections with schools he worked with at UA.

Every streak must have a beginning. I know being that beginning upsets some at the time, but he certainly deserves a fair opportunity, especially given what we've seen with the other side of the coin (take a look at SLU's men's hockey program after bringing in that coaching veteran).

Football and Lacrosse have been improving since before McElroy, and dare I say even before Knowlton. There may be other factors I won't get into as they are unsubstantiated, so draw any conclusions you want. Whether this has been done at the expense of hockey, I couldn't tell you.

As for the whole "fire" thing, I'm used to it by this point. I see someone's already put up a tag to that extent. I also know there are some inactive posters that still obsessively gloss over what I type. Seems a little sad I'm such a focal point in their mind, but hey, that's their prerogative.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

The Pittsburgh Penguins probably disagree with that but what do they know

Reilly can't hit the net to save his life. I understand deflections are a thing, but the fact of the matter is he isn't coming close. Not to mention, even if the goalie gets in front of it, we've had a number of goals off the rebound with the centre crashing the net.

 

[25+years]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

Do folks really think Johnson or Hellbauer or Ott are so much better than Grant or Samec or Hayhurst? What happened to Ott? Injured or not good enough to keep Hayhurst or Polino out of the lineup? Are just a few more Smith guys going to put us over the top? Keep thinking that. And you will be left defending that down the road, except you will be defending the next coaches' recruits over Smith's. D1 hockey has become an NHL feeding ground. The best players want NOTHING to do with schools like RPI. So you are left with the players below NHL skill level. And they want to go to places that will help them get to the next level. By being in a program that draws attention. Or, if they realize they won't go pro, they want to go where they can have fun and win.

 

[ServinisScores]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

So your telling me Hayhurst, Burgess and Wiffen were holding us back be serious !!!

I would venture a guess that Hayhurst came back too early, he didn't look himself v. DC. I didn't see the Harvard game.

 

[fishcore12]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

Every streak must have a beginning. I know being that beginning upsets some at the time, but he certainly deserves a fair opportunity, especially given what we've seen with the other side of the coin (take a look at SLU's men's hockey program after bringing in that coaching veteran).

Football and Lacrosse have been improving since before McElroy, and dare I say even before Knowlton. There may be other factors I won't get into as they are unsubstantiated, so draw any conclusions you want. Whether this has been done at the expense of hockey, I couldn't tell you.

As for the whole "fire" thing, I'm used to it by this point. I see someone's already put up a tag to that extent. I also know there are some inactive posters that still obsessively gloss over what I type. Seems a little sad I'm such a focal point in their mind, but hey, that's their prerogative.

I'm a UA grad so I'm all for what McElroy has done there. (Here comes my "hot take" or conspiracy theory) Part of me is thinking he is at the helm to lead RPI into a higher division of NCAA play for all teams. D-II or heck even D-I (FCS football and a league like the NEC, Patriot or America East.) Doubtful that will actually happen but it just seems odd that he left UA and came to RPI just to keep himself in the game. Chances he has a pretty good NYS retirement package from UA so this job could be his walk around money job.

 

[ServinisScores]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

Do folks really think Johnson or Hellbauer or Ott are so much better than Grant or Samec or Hayhurst? What happened to Ott? Injured or not good enough to keep Hayhurst or Polino out of the lineup? Are just a few more Smith guys going to put us over the top? Keep thinking that. And you will be left defending that down the road, except you will be defending the next coaches' recruits over Smith's. D1 hockey has become an NHL feeding ground. The best players want NOTHING to do with schools like RPI. So you are left with the players below NHL skill level. And they want to go to places that will help them get to the next level. By being in a program that draws attention. Or, if they realize they won't go pro, they want to go where they can have fun and win.

I think:
- Johnson and Hallbauer have upside enough to be better than definitely Samec, maybe Grant. GRant looked bad at times this year.
- Hayhurst is a unique talent, I hope he stays for his last year.
- Ott is a borderline d1 player.
- I agree w/ your comments about why players would come to RPI. I don't think RPI's education is differentiated enough in 2019 compared to schools like Cornell, BU, Michigan, Ohio State, Clarkson, MTU to name a few and given the program's demise, Smith has a tough sell all-around.

 

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

Hello AspyDad, Before moving forward, I think you need to look at the bigger picture for the storied program you mention:
- last season RPI was in ECAC championship game - 2000
- last season RPI was in ECAC frozen four - 2002 (every other program has appeared at least once in this timeframe)
- major roster defections - Pirri, D’Amigo, Zalewski, Haggerty, et. al
- major recruiting defections - Huxley, Dillon, Quinn, et. al
- don’t forget Jim Montgomery saw fit to exit...

This historical data is only to say the issues (poor results, defections) you mention aren't a new thing for this program, nor an indictment of neither McElroy alone, nor Smith.

I don’t think anyone is going to say we have a new, clear path to undoing the damage done by the previous leadership regime. Frankly I didn't have that expectation when Smith was hired, and still don't. This team did show signs of life and playing together during the season, and cause for some optimism. Keyword - some.

Happy Sunday

Happy Sunday My Friend -

Let's go point by point.

2000 team had homegrown Troy Products that gave the home town discount. Fridge had a huge advantage in getting them.
Pirri, JDA, Haggs all went pro. That not so much defection but going for what they saw as an opportunity. Emil, Tironese, Nanne, etc. just left.
Dillion was counseled by the Kings to go to OHL to see more pucks. Unfortunately for him, it didn't work out.
The Monty analogy holds no water IMHO. He's now coach of the Dallas Stars. Is the argument that he should have stayed in Troy?

All my best, AD

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

25+years happened to mention, albeit indirectly, that we spent a lot of time depending on the goalies, giving the opposition enough time to expose them. And after what I mentioned about Hayhurst, the solution seems to be obvious: Every player needs to step up to contribute to the betterment of the team. During the Appert days, we had a culture of playing for the name on the back. With that came the mindset that, when a superstar shows up, the others can just depend on him and give less effort. Socialism in sports, for lack of a better term. When that safety net is gone, everyone on the team steps up and gives a great effort for the name on the front.

I hate to say it, but it may be a blessing in disguise that we don't have highly touted superstars coming in. Maybe now we build a more competitive team, which is how you have success at this level.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

The Pittsburgh Penguins probably disagree with that but what do they know

They made that decision after his freshman year. After that, his game went to ****.

 

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

I'm a UA grad so I'm all for what McElroy has done there. (Here comes my "hot take" or conspiracy theory) Part of me is thinking he is at the helm to lead RPI into a higher division of NCAA play for all teams. D-II or heck even D-I (FCS football and a league like the NEC, Patriot or America East.) Doubtful that will actually happen but it just seems odd that he left UA and came to RPI just to keep himself in the game. Chances he has a pretty good NYS retirement package from UA so this job could be his walk around money job.

As always, you are the most astute observer of RPI Hockey on the scene. Lee has no knowledge (which is fine) but did not tap hockey resources to fix this thing; it is a hallmark of his stewardship of this program.

 

[ServinisScores]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

I'm a UA grad so I'm all for what McElroy has done there. (Here comes my "hot take" or conspiracy theory) Part of me is thinking he is at the helm to lead RPI into a higher division of NCAA play for all teams. D-II or heck even D-I (FCS football and a league like the NEC, Patriot or America East.) Doubtful that will actually happen but it just seems odd that he left UA and came to RPI just to keep himself in the game. Chances he has a pretty good NYS retirement package from UA so this job could be his walk around money job.

that's not a crazy take, but they seem to be moving slow if that's the real plan, no?

 

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

The Pittsburgh Penguins probably disagree with that but what do they know

It's a five alarm fire when my bro shows up! Luv it TB!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

that's not a crazy take, but they seem to be moving slow if that's the real plan, no?

That's partially a result of the NCAA changes that were made around 2006 or so, which involve hefty moratoriums. I believe it's 5 years to go D-III to D-II, and then 9 years from D-II to D-I (perhaps the other way around). Let's also remember that the money required to facilitate D-I programs is a lot more than D-III, and quite frankly, RPI is flat broke.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

Lots of action and complaining on these boards... must be playoff time.

 

[ServinisScores]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

Happy Sunday My Friend -

Let's go point by point.

2000 team had homegrown Troy Products that gave the home town discount. Fridge had a huge advantage in getting them.
Pirri, JDA, Haggs all went pro. That not so much defection but going for what they saw as an opportunity. Emil, Tironese, Nanne, etc. just left.
Dillion was counseled by the Kings to go to OHL to see more pucks. Unfortunately for him, it didn't work out.
The Monty analogy holds no water IMHO. He's now coach of the Dallas Stars. Is the argument that he should have stayed in Troy?

All my best, AD

Hmm, I have to run to playoff games for the little ones after this, so I can't banter back & forth too long:
- I would say Seth not being able to outdo Fridge's Troy connection (assuming that is the sole reason for 2000) isn't a plus in Seth's column.
- Emil, et.al. aren't going pro because they aren't good enough. Regardless, I would expect them to transfer with a coaching change.
- Monty should have been someone that McElroy's predecessor locked down to be the HC, at least for a few years.

I have to run, will check in from courtside... Cheers!