RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Will agree to disagree. You and I must watch the game differently. I don’t see a 200ft game out of him to the level you suggest and I also don’t see a player that plays larger than his size. But as I said to start we see the game differently. What we need is our big guys to play to their size and our Dmen to play within them selves. Too many want to be Eric Karlson. Other teams are moving ahead with new coaches because they are embracing a simple game. This team has not ... short simple zone outlet passes. 2 and 2 step Dmen rushes with passes next are what we should be looking for and we don’t. Still don’t understand how a team that was #1 in the ECAC and #9 in the country with only 1 true departure from last years successful PP can be under 10% this year.

Somehow, I get the feeling you're seeing some holes in York's play and judging based on that. I don't think anyone's saying that he's perfect, just that we're seeing good things from him, and the feeling that we'll see the same for the next 3.5 years.

The comment about Eric Karlson can pretty much sum up the teams we've had in the past few years. They've felt like "all star teams". A bunch of guys playing for the name on the back, and no sense of team cohesion. And when team cohesion has to come, it seems like they over-compensate, and forget about the fundamentals that have made them successful year to year, never taking the shot when it's open (unless you're "the chosen one"), getting rid of the puck as quickly as possible because heaven forbid you make a mistake with it and to heck with where it goes, and looking, well, just plain lost when you're in front of the blue line.

As a comparison, at this point last year, we were 12/83 on the PP, or approximately 1/7. Still a bit far from the 20+% percent. Being under 10% right now is troubling, but isn't necessarily an indication of where we're going to be by the end of the year. Don't know if it's slow start syndrome, only worrying about league games, or if it's something else we saw that isn't being done now.

 

[TBone]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Somehow, I get the feeling you're seeing some holes in York's play and judging based on that.

Your deductive reasoning is off the charts......

 

[Noresmen]

I highly disagree on York and Tironese; York is a sparkplug this team desperately needs, and Tironese's horrendous mental lapses need to be eliminated.

Again we’re using words to describe players that really have flaws ... you’re falling in love with a player that has a small package of evidence to base it off of. I understand the reasoning for hope but let’s wait till there’s a larger sample size. Like a full season.

As for Tironese, One play doesn’t paint a full picture. Here’s a player with a much larger sample size then York and he’s being painted as a player that makes bad decisions. He’s almost a point per game player in his career at RPI. His skill set is higher than most in the team and therefore he’s going to attempt plays that others lacking in skills won’t or even shouldn’t attempt. Why he’s not on the PP is beyond me. If my memory is correct he played a large role in RPI’s success on the PP.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

You guys realize that this is a brand new team right? A new coach with a new system and more new players than anyone would be comfortable with.
Have you watched the play this weekend? Our defensive zone play was top notch. The kept everything to the outside just the way you draw it up. Clarkson is a very good team, and we held them in check for the entire game.
Our offensive game needs a lot of help. Our transition game needs even more help. But we are just getting to know each other and what we are capable of.
Lets see what this team grows into before we start getting on the players.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

You guys realize that this is a brand new team right? A new coach with a new system and more new players than anyone would be comfortable with.
Have you watched the play this weekend? Our defensive zone play was top notch. The kept everything to the outside just the way you draw it up. Clarkson is a very good team, and we held them in check for the entire game.
Our offensive game needs a lot of help. Our transition game needs even more help. But we are just getting to know each other and what we are capable of.
Lets see what this team grows into before we start getting on the players.

In October, our offensive game didn't seem like it needed help. Are we one trick ponies that others have figured out? Did we play opposition that isn't as a good at defending? Or are we over-compensating with defensive play that we forget the other side of the blue line?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Again we’re using words to describe players that really have flaws ... you’re falling in love with a player that has a small package of evidence to base it off of. I understand the reasoning for hope but let’s wait till there’s a larger sample size. Like a full season.

As for Tironese, One play doesn’t paint a full picture. Here’s a player with a much larger sample size then York and he’s being painted as a player that makes bad decisions. He’s almost a point per game player in his career at RPI. His skill set is higher than most in the team and therefore he’s going to attempt plays that others lacking in skills won’t or even shouldn’t attempt. Why he’s not on the PP is beyond me. If my memory is correct he played a large role in RPI’s success on the PP.

Wasn't Tironese also on the PP with Bourbonnais? From what I remember in the past couple years (I'm going to include his redshirt year), those two really gelled well together. Who does he gel well with this year? Yes, he provided a good number of points (seemed a bit offset by last year's RIT game, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt), but he's not Ovechkin. Plus, 75% of his points last year were assists. Who's there to finish? Personally I think it's him, but he seems a bit "hampered" there. It took what seemed like forever to see him actually take the shot even this year, and we all know what happens when he does. Is he going to step up? Unless he or someone else does, he's going to show difficulties.

 

[ServinisScores]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Again we’re using words to describe players that really have flaws ... you’re falling in love with a player that has a small package of evidence to base it off of. I understand the reasoning for hope but let’s wait till there’s a larger sample size. Like a full season.

As for Tironese, One play doesn’t paint a full picture. Here’s a player with a much larger sample size then York and he’s being painted as a player that makes bad decisions. He’s almost a point per game player in his career at RPI. His skill set is higher than most in the team and therefore he’s going to attempt plays that others lacking in skills won’t or even shouldn’t attempt. Why he’s not on the PP is beyond me. If my memory is correct he played a large role in RPI’s success on the PP.

Please don't put words "falling in love" in my mouth. Tironese demonstrated last season he is talented, but also capable of mind-numbing giveaways that directly lead to goals. It's not a single data point.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Don't expect anything from ET on Saturday. I selected him on the PtC.

 

[joecct]

Don't expect anything from ET on Saturday. I selected him on the PtC.

Ouch!

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Ouch!

Why do you care? You didn't pick him.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

You guys realize that this is a brand new team right? A new coach with a new system and more new players than anyone would be comfortable with.
Have you watched the play this weekend? Our defensive zone play was top notch. The kept everything to the outside just the way you draw it up. Clarkson is a very good team, and we held them in check for the entire game.
Our offensive game needs a lot of help. Our transition game needs even more help. But we are just getting to know each other and what we are capable of.
Lets see what this team grows into before we start getting on the players.

Thank you for injecting measure, logic and reason into this conversation! (Seriously)

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

I might as well add my two cents. I feel that there has been progress in many areas this season despite the fact that on paper I don't think that the team is as talented as a year ago. Remember that besides for seniors, Bourbonnias, Reno et al., we lost Melanson and Nanne who were probably expected to lead this team.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Please don't put words "falling in love" in my mouth. Tironese demonstrated last season he is talented, but also capable of mind-numbing giveaways that directly lead to goals. It's not a single data point.

He's not the only one out there that's had those sorts of brain farts. Seems like a bigger problem than just individual players and individual plays.

 

[25+years]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

I think we all need to take a step back and look at the big picture. Putting the whole package together creating a great team is so difficult. You have to get the players to bond as people. You have to get the players, many of whom (not necessarily on this team) were stars on their previous teams to put team before self. You have to get each player to play their position well. You have to get them to skate and play hard the entire game. And you have to teach them and get them to understand and buy into a system which may be new to them. If creating a good, even decent, winning team was so easy, the standings would be much closer than they are in all the leagues. And success breeds success. Doubt players want to go to places like BU, BC, Michigan, Denver, Union, etc because of the campus atmosphere or the academics. They go there because they win and the players can see why they win. And winning brings in great players. They all are working towards the NHL. So all that being said. Improvement on RPI's team is a work in progress. Mistakes are bound to happen. You have to try and get all the players into games to enable them to learn and demonstrate their capabilities in the system. You cant replace the experience in college hockey players like ET have. I never thought this team would sit in the top half of the league standings. And none of these guys would be considered a grade A prospect. But I am sure Clarkson, Quinnipiac, Maine, etc see them as a better team. And once they get a couple wins under their belt, they will be even more confident and respected. And. I think they will quietly be a thorn in the top teams sides.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

I think we all need to take a step back and look at the big picture. Putting the whole package together creating a great team is so difficult. You have to get the players to bond as people. You have to get the players, many of whom (not necessarily on this team) were stars on their previous teams to put team before self. You have to get each player to play their position well. You have to get them to skate and play hard the entire game. And you have to teach them and get them to understand and buy into a system which may be new to them. If creating a good, even decent, winning team was so easy, the standings would be much closer than they are in all the leagues. And success breeds success. Doubt players want to go to places like BU, BC, Michigan, Denver, Union, etc because of the campus atmosphere or the academics. They go there because they win and the players can see why they win. And winning brings in great players. They all are working towards the NHL. So all that being said. Improvement on RPI's team is a work in progress. Mistakes are bound to happen. You have to try and get all the players into games to enable them to learn and demonstrate their capabilities in the system. You cant replace the experience in college hockey players like ET have. I never thought this team would sit in the top half of the league standings. And none of these guys would be considered a grade A prospect. But I am sure Clarkson, Quinnipiac, Maine, etc see them as a better team. And once they get a couple wins under their belt, they will be even more confident and respected. And. I think they will quietly be a thorn in the top teams sides.

All true and can be summed up with the need to give to give it time. 3 years at least for expectations to the top 4-5 in league. We can certainly demand to see improvement along the way, but the new staff needs the time for their recruits to arrive and mesh into Smith's system.

CCT is certainly a good example of the time needed to regrow program . Heck even BU is stumbling a little bit and they're team loaded with blue chippers. The easiest thing to do is fire a coach- the hardest is the rebuild. Coaching changes impact every fiber of a program and don't get rebuilt overnight.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Marc Cavosie is the Volunteer Assistant Coach with the women's team http://www.rpiathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=whock.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

In October, our offensive game didn't seem like it needed help. Are we one trick ponies that others have figured out? Did we play opposition that isn't as a good at defending? Or are we over-compensating with defensive play that we forget the other side of the blue line?

The answer to your questions is yes. And it will take time to incorporate all those systems. Their defense looks great. They have had offensive chances, but did not finish. If they keep getting chances, they will score some goals. We started the season not scoring at all, then we put some decent numbers up. Now we have played teams like Notre Dame and Clarkson. We are not going to get too many goals against those guys.
This weekend we will be playing teams more in line with our talent level. I look for some goals and really exciting games.
All we can ask is that they are competitive right now, and for the last couple of weeks we have been that. I really like the direction we are going in. But that is just my opinion.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

The answer to your questions is yes. And it will take time to incorporate all those systems. Their defense looks great. They have had offensive chances, but did not finish. If they keep getting chances, they will score some goals. We started the season not scoring at all, then we put some decent numbers up. Now we have played teams like Notre Dame and Clarkson. We are not going to get too many goals against those guys.
This weekend we will be playing teams more in line with our talent level. I look for some goals and really exciting games.
All we can ask is that they are competitive right now, and for the last couple of weeks we have been that. I really like the direction we are going in. But that is just my opinion.

Maybe we'll also get some answers about playing to the level of the opposition, seeing what we've done when it comes to that...

 

[turk181]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Maybe we'll also get some answers about playing to the level of the opposition, seeing what we've done when it comes to that...

This always cracks me up. I think the thought of “playing to the level.........” applies to the school playing RPI.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

I think we all need to take a step back and look at the big picture. Putting the whole package together creating a great team is so difficult. You have to get the players to bond as people. You have to get the players, many of whom (not necessarily on this team) were stars on their previous teams to put team before self. You have to get each player to play their position well. You have to get them to skate and play hard the entire game. And you have to teach them and get them to understand and buy into a system which may be new to them. If creating a good, even decent, winning team was so easy, the standings would be much closer than they are in all the leagues. And success breeds success. Doubt players want to go to places like BU, BC, Michigan, Denver, Union, etc because of the campus atmosphere or the academics. They go there because they win and the players can see why they win. And winning brings in great players. They all are working towards the NHL. So all that being said. Improvement on RPI's team is a work in progress. Mistakes are bound to happen. You have to try and get all the players into games to enable them to learn and demonstrate their capabilities in the system. You cant replace the experience in college hockey players like ET have. I never thought this team would sit in the top half of the league standings. And none of these guys would be considered a grade A prospect. But I am sure Clarkson, Quinnipiac, Maine, etc see them as a better team. And once they get a couple wins under their belt, they will be even more confident and respected. And. I think they will quietly be a thorn in the top teams sides.

What??

This is a sensible, reasonable, mature post. how did it find its way into this thread?