RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

[lugnut92]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

A lot of people trying to find the positives in the season so far and that's admirable and it has merit, but what if we're just bad? Like really bad. We're getting outshot by over 11 SOGs per game, which is basically just a goal against every single game. Marshall and Perry have both put up amazing goaltending performances, but when they're not Ken Dryden (and sometimes even when they are), we lose and we lose badly. There is the bright spot that we're currently shooting above the national average, and if we can keep scoring on 9.5% of our shots, we'll get those "timely goals" and win games like we did against Quinnipiac.

I'll hold out hope that we can massively tighten up the defense and keep up the shooting, but until we do that, we're just going to be bad. We might not be "fun" to play against, but I don't know how most teams still wouldn't look at us as a pretty likely two points.

EDIT: One caveat to what I said is that we have played a pretty tough schedule so far with two each against Notre Dame, Clarkson, and tOSU. Things may start to look up when we get to play Dartmouth/Yale/Brown and our home game against SLU.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

A lot of people trying to find the positives in the season so far and that's admirable and it has merit, but what if we're just bad? Like really bad. We're getting outshot by over 11 SOGs per game, which is basically just a goal against every single game. Marshall and Perry have both put up amazing goaltending performances, but when they're not Ken Dryden (and sometimes even when they are), we lose and we lose badly. There is the bright spot that we're currently shooting above the national average, and if we can keep scoring on 9.5% of our shots, we'll get those "timely goals" and win games like we did against Quinnipiac.

I'll hold out hope that we can massively tighten up the defense and keep up the shooting, but until we do that, we're just going to be bad. We might not be "fun" to play against, but I don't know how most teams still wouldn't look at us as a pretty likely two points.

EDIT: One caveat to what I said is that we have played a pretty tough schedule so far with two each against Notre Dame, Clarkson, and tOSU. Things may start to look up when we get to play Dartmouth/Yale/Brown and our home game against SLU.

I'm the furthest thing you'll find from a "moral victory" guy, but I have to give credit when it's due. We took ND to OT and played well enough to win, then we follow that up with what was for 50+ mins a one goal game against CCT. And for those who aren't paying attention those are two VERY good teams. Clarkson is a legit top 5 team - they roll four solid lines and any of em can beat you.

Point being , you can be a "bad" team but are you learning anything along the way as you're taking the lumps? I believe they are. I Know I see the growth in guys like Harris, York, Samec, etc. if anything, the more senior And skilled guys need to get off the pot and start stepping up. Hayhurst, Whiffen, Burgess, Liljgren, etc need to start burying pucks. They've all had looks that haven't found the back of the net.

 

[lugnut92]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

if anything, the more senior And skilled guys need to get off the pot and start stepping up. Hayhurst, Whiffen, Burgess, Liljgren, etc need to start burying pucks. They've all had looks that haven't found the back of the net.

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed. Even when we make decent plays and set up guys to bury the puck, the team has absolutely no finish (which is contradicted by the reasonably high Sh%). I believe that these are for the most part all smart guys with reasonably good hockey sense (except for when Tironese just blindly threw the puck back deep with the goalie pulled against Notre Dame, that was the most idiotic decision I've ever seen), but that maybe the hands can't pull off the moves the head tries to make.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed. Even when we make decent plays and set up guys to bury the puck, the team has absolutely no finish (which is contradicted by the reasonably high Sh%). I believe that these are for the most part all smart guys with reasonably good hockey sense (except for when Tironese just blindly threw the puck back deep with the goalie pulled against Notre Dame, that was the most idiotic decision I've ever seen), but that maybe the hands can't pull off the moves the head tries to make.

This is one of the qualms I have about the way hockey records shots vs. the way soccer does. Sure, we have a reasonably high shot percentage, but what percentage of attempts do we have that either get blocked or miss the net, when compared to other teams? We have problems even getting pucks to the net. Either we're forcing the shots, or waiting way too long to let the opposition actually defend. The drop pass is something that's really been irking as of late, although not quite as much as clearing the puck right in front of our own net.

I understand that you want to mix up how you get into the zone, but we've developed such a reputation that I really think just going for the net is going to work. Yes, you want to work the good shot, but you don't want to make too many moves to the point where it's counter-productive, in that you make no progress and waste a lot of energy.

 

[lugnut92]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

This is one of the qualms I have about the way hockey records shots vs. the way soccer does. Sure, we have a reasonably high shot percentage, but what percentage of attempts do we have that either get blocked or miss the net, when compared to other teams? We have problems even getting pucks to the net. Either we're forcing the shots, or waiting way too long to let the opposition actually defend. The drop pass is something that's really been irking as of late, although not quite as much as clearing the puck right in front of our own net.

I understand that you want to mix up how you get into the zone, but we've developed such a reputation that I really think just going for the net is going to work. Yes, you want to work the good shot, but you don't want to make too many moves to the point where it's counter-productive, in that you make no progress and waste a lot of energy.

To address some of this, 51.2% of our shot attempts make it on net, compared to the national average of 54%. That puts us at 50th out of 60, which is obviously not a good place to be. Our shooting percentage is 9.6%, which is right on the national average, but the rates at which our unblocked/total shot attempts go in (i.e., Fenwick /Corsi shooting percentage) are slightly below average at 6.6%/4.9% (vs. 6.8%/5.2%), which puts us at #32/38.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

A friend pointed out that among the four college "commercials" that aired during NESN's tourney coverage, RPI's was the only production that did not show/highlight the hockey team .....interesting. If true, it's an epic fail in my view.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

A friend pointed out that among the four college "commercials" that aired during NESN's tourney coverage, RPI's was the only production that did not show/highlight the hockey team .....interesting. If true, it's an epic fail in my view.

I have a terrible feeling it's by design.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

A friend pointed out that among the four college "commercials" that aired during NESN's tourney coverage, RPI's was the only production that did not show/highlight the hockey team .....interesting. If true, it's an epic fail in my view.

I have absolutely no problem with this. RPI is recruiting students with this commercial. The people watching are hockey fans and know that RPI is one of the teams in the tournament. Putting them in the commercial would be redundant.
If we were not watching hockey, I would have a totally different opinion.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

I have absolutely no problem with this. RPI is recruiting students with this commercial. The people watching are hockey fans and know that RPI is one of the teams in the tournament. Putting them in the commercial would be redundant.
If we were not watching hockey, I would have a totally different opinion.

Targeted advertising is understandable. A couple of points come to mind, though:

Wouldn't you want to show what the institute values in the commercial? I think we can all agree that a large chunk would not be useful, but even if it's one-half to one second (enough to show a goal or a big hit), that does show a commitment to the hockey program.
Were any other sports shown in said commercial? Maybe it's just campus and research they want to show.
How many different commercials for RPI have been seen over the course of, say, a year? Somehow I don't think we have that many.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Targeted advertising is understandable. A couple of points come to mind, though:

Wouldn't you want to show what the institute values in the commercial? I think we can all agree that a large chunk would not be useful, but even if it's one-half to one second (enough to show a goal or a big hit), that does show a commitment to the hockey program.
Were any other sports shown in said commercial? Maybe it's just campus and research they want to show.
How many different commercials for RPI have been seen over the course of, say, a year? Somehow I don't think we have that many.

I was only half watching the commercial but don't recall any sports although I think that there was a shot of the outside of the ECAV (the building where the training room and basketball court are). I suspect that the video was made as a general intro to RPI and not specifically for this tourney.

 

[Noresmen]

You get the feeling some of the pundits are starting to get a bit impatient?

I'm glad Troy York got a shout-out, because that kid's compete level is amazing. I hope he keeps this up for the next 3.5 years, because he's one special player.

York is a contributing player ... I'm not sure the contributions are all positive. I'm also not sure how special he is at this point either. He's scored some goals which is helpful. His PK skills leave something to be desired and one wonders why he is out there. As for his compete level, he is one of a number of players that has a high level of compete. For me the jury is still out on him and a number of other Freshmen. I'd much rather see Tironese out there at this stage of the game.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

York is a contributing player ... I'm not sure the contributions are all positive. I'm also not sure how special he is at this point either. He's scored some goals which is helpful. His PK skills leave something to be desired and one wonders why he is out there. As for his compete level, he is one of a number of players that has a high level of compete. For me the jury is still out on him and a number of other Freshmen. I'd much rather see Tironese out there at this stage of the game.

IMO, York has been the most consistent 200ft forward we've had since Marello got gooned after the whistle at SLU. He keeps opponents honest, I.e. He doesn't allow free zone entries - they get hit. He is not a guy who will fill score sheets, he is a guy who is hard to play against, plays bigger than his size and creates space for his line mates. I'd take 5 more like him.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Targeted advertising is understandable. A couple of points come to mind, though:

Wouldn't you want to show what the institute values in the commercial? I think we can all agree that a large chunk would not be useful, but even if it's one-half to one second (enough to show a goal or a big hit), that does show a commitment to the hockey program.
Were any other sports shown in said commercial? Maybe it's just campus and research they want to show.
How many different commercials for RPI have been seen over the course of, say, a year? Somehow I don't think we have that many.

Agree 100%. That the three other schools included hockey in their ads says it all. You either value it as part of the student experience and want to share that with the outside world or you don't. Simple math.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Agree 100%. That the three other schools included hockey in their ads says it all. You either value it as part of the student experience and want to share that with the outside world or you don't. Simple math.

Shirley just does not care.

 

[giwan]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

To address some of this, 51.2% of our shot attempts make it on net, compared to the national average of 54%. That puts us at 50th out of 60, which is obviously not a good place to be. Our shooting percentage is 9.6%, which is right on the national average, but the rates at which our unblocked/total shot attempts go in (i.e., Fenwick /Corsi shooting percentage) are slightly below average at 6.6%/4.9% (vs. 6.8%/5.2%), which puts us at #32/38.

SOG is a terrible stat. I'm sure the team keeps better ones ie Corsi number or some quality shot stat. At best SOG can show a trend if your teams are not close to each other.

Crazy not to show hockey in the commercial to round out the quality of life at RPI.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

Shirley just does not care.

Can't put all the blame on her, as there's probably some marketing department that comes up with this, and she just rubber stamps it. Yes, I understand staff serves at her and the board's pleasure, and she probably hired them. Only tyrants call that an extension of themselves (and yes, I understand she is one, but they only do it when it benefits them). Either way, it's still quite the overlook.

 

[Noresmen]

IMO, York has been the most consistent 200ft forward we've had since Marello got gooned after the whistle at SLU. He keeps opponents honest, I.e. He doesn't allow free zone entries - they get hit. He is not a guy who will fill score sheets, he is a guy who is hard to play against, plays bigger than his size and creates space for his line mates. I'd take 5 more like him.

Will agree to disagree. You and I must watch the game differently. I don’t see a 200ft game out of him to the level you suggest and I also don’t see a player that plays larger than his size. But as I said to start we see the game differently. What we need is our big guys to play to their size and our Dmen to play within them selves. Too many want to be Eric Karlson. Other teams are moving ahead with new coaches because they are embracing a simple game. This team has not ... short simple zone outlet passes. 2 and 2 step Dmen rushes with passes next are what we should be looking for and we don’t. Still don’t understand how a team that was #1 in the ECAC and #9 in the country with only 1 true departure from last years successful PP can be under 10% this year.

 

[lugnut92]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

SOG is a terrible stat. I'm sure the team keeps better ones ie Corsi number or some quality shot stat. At best SOG can show a trend if your teams are not close to each other.

In college hockey, all-situations SOG percentage is actually more strongly correlated with winning than Corsi or anything else publicly available (I'm having trouble finding the source, but it's a Ryan Lambert article either on CHN or Puck Daddy).

 

[ServinisScores]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

the last 4 seasons, through the end of November don't paint a great picture for the start.

2014 6-9-1 25 GF 43 GA
2015 8-5-2 40 GF 40 GA
2016 3-12-1 32 GF 56 GA
2017 2-10-3 33 GF 49 GA


I highly disagree on York and Tironese; York is a sparkplug this team desperately needs, and Tironese's horrendous mental lapses need to be eliminated.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2017 - 2018: A Wealth of Notions

the last 4 seasons, through the end of November don't paint a great picture for the start.

2014 6-9-1 25 GF 43 GA
2015 8-5-2 40 GF 40 GA
2016 3-12-1 32 GF 56 GA
2017 2-10-3 33 GF 49 GA


I highly disagree on York and Tironese; York is a sparkplug this team desperately needs, and Tironese's horrendous mental lapses need to be eliminated.

I'd take that 2015 start again.