RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

[Jasma]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

I completely agree...but I'm starting to ask myself whether this issue didn't also exist the last time we made the tournament. If I'm not mistaken, we started that year with a number of wins, but that the last half there were more losses than wins and that we basically backed into the tourney. Start connecting those dots and players leaving and I'm left with a big unanswered question.

I understand, and to some extent share your concerns. Just one point of contention, however. that team did limp to the finish line, but the way the NCAA Hockey Tournament is set up, nobody "back in". they look at the entire season, good wins, bad losses, etc. and take the teams that appear to have been the most consistently good over the course of the entire year. A loss late matters little more than a loss early.

Your point about event that team having a bad stretch is legitimate.

 

[Senna]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Didn't go to Dartmouth but I was @ Harvard. Where does one start first off there was alot of long faces among the non dressed players I have no Idea what is going on behind closed doors w/this team but I'am quite certain it is not some ongoing problem that goes way back to JDA and BP they left for 1 reason and 1 reason only MONEY. In fact JDA spent a couple of weeks here at RPI training at the end of the summer if he didn't like it here why would he come back and hang out so we should put that to bed ! As for PK we might be getting a little warm there my gut feeling is that this may have been a style of play issue and PK didn't think the way we needed him to play was what was gong to get him to the NHL so He left nobodys fault these things happen. We have a very talented team as much talant as most teams in Our league but as we all know in the ECAC it is a tight checking game of mistakes and missed opportunities every period of every game is a test of wills and the teams that keeps their emotions in tact and sticks to the plan has the most success plain and simple. We saw that last year at the end of the year. We don't have a failed system what we have is a failure to execute the system 100% of the time which is a DISIPLINE problem. Its been an ongoing problem for a couple of years now SA is aware of it because he has told us a hundred times in coach speak that this is the problem and He let it get out of hand last year he admits that and what we saw @ Harvard was an attempt to nip it in the bud. These players need to take a long look at themselves and decide if they are holding their end up and nothing like a little humble pie and spectator time to speed that process up. There is a lot of Hockey left lets not give up yet lets enjoy the ride. And on a final note not to disagree with WS but I believe we have let in a whole lot of goals in the last 4 games to NOT have a goaltending problem enough said on that. GO RED !!!!!

TB - I'm just asking questions. When you say "not an ongoing problem", I respectfully disagree as its been front and center this year and last. I was wondering if potentially longer than that. As for JDA coming to training camp - I think you are missing my point completely. I think that all of these kids are exceptional and there seems to be a bond between all of them that is extremely strong. If fact, could be said to be remarkable. Thats JDA coming to train with them. So, if they are all so incredibly tight, then where is the breakdown ? You mention PK leaving as possibly a style of play issue. Well, I for one would have loved to see ANY style of play other than what has been on the ice for the past 2 years. If you meant up-tempo with the defensemen being offensive minded, well I would have liked to see that too...but we just dont press the play hard enough as a team and as others have noted we frequently end up getting caught out on that and having odd man situations going the other way. I agree we have a talented team - I am very happy with the recruiting and the team we have. That is not what I am struggling with. When we talk about a "system", I dont know what that "system" is....but clearly it isnt working and doesnt seem that anyone is buying into it. As for discipline, it seems that every one of these kids has been a captain or leader in some way on the ice, and as a group are exceptional scholar-athletes. They are disciplined. However, there seems to be some massive disconnect between the players and the coaches. For the love of god, no one has more discipline problems than BU or North Dakota but they still buy into the "system" and consistently win. If SA doesnt have control of this team, or if they are rebelling against the coaching, then there is a much bigger issue - and thats what I am questioning and concerned about. If the coaching and system is just not working - THEN CHANGE IT. Isnt that what a coaching staff is supposed to do ? Sitting the number of players we did in a league game I think is going to push the players and coaches apart, not bring them together. I do also agree that there is a whole lot of hockey left, and so this can be turned around and that we have the horses to be a force. In the end, I'm left to wonder where we would be - in the same place or an entirely different team - if we had Lehman or Bennett....and I directly ask that question because of what they have done with a program that was basically non-existent 10 years ago and is a national contender now. The fact that they are continually stomping us is unacceptable.

 

[Stay@homeDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

The outcome may be a whole lot different than what you expect. Time will tell!!

If I am reading between the lines here it seems like you feel a changing of the guard is needed.

 

[sk8tronthepond]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

I see nothing wrong about sitting players who aren't performing well. And this should have nothing to do with who recruited them. Some (most?) players benefit from the soul-searching that can come withn a seat in the stands. Not knowing any of the players personally, I cannot comment on the recent benchings, and I wouldn't if I did know them.

As you wrote, "Time will tell!!"

I never said benching players was wrong, as long as the players understand exactly what they did to earn the night off. You are right, it has nothing to do with who recruited them, but when TB is referring to them as "these players", I am simply stating they were recruited by SA!!

I am concerned with the number of players that were benched and now that a precedent has been set moving forward, are guys going to play too tight for fear of benching. SA will need to be consistent with this for the rest of the year when it comes to benching players and why they were benched.

 

[sk8tronthepond]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

If I am reading between the lines here it seems like you feel a changing of the guard is needed.

I don't know how you would take that from what I said. I was referring to what TB said, when he stated that the benching of the players would "speed up the process" of players realizing they "are not holding their end up". What I am stating is that it might not speed up the process with regards to TB's anticipated results......sometimes it back fires! Time will tell!!

 

[Stay@homeDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

It seems to me that just about everyone feels the problem is not with the players but with the coaching staff not doing their jobs. I wonder if the powers to be at the school feel the same way and are thinking changes needed to be made. I like SA as a coach but agree he needs to stop using the excuses and perhaps he and the rest of his staff need to sit out a game and take a long hard look at themselves.

Another thought that comes to mind with all the players who have worn the "C" or "A" on their jerseys before coming to school here, perhaps there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

If I am reading between the lines here it seems like you feel a changing of the guard is needed.

Not yet, but if SA doesn't get a handle on this team soon, I think a lot of the fan base might just start looking to change the guard.
It really doesn't make much sense, He says the right things he is a great member of the community gets the team to buy into their committment to their grades and community, but he can't get them to buy into a system on the ice?
He can get help.advice from some of the best coaches in college hockey (Denver/Miami et al.), and yet, we have the same problems year after year.
Honestly, I have no problem with sitting those kids against Harvard, but if they have a problem with it, he may have totally lost this team. We will see how they react.

 

[Stay@homeDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

I don't know how you would take that from what I said. I was referring to what TB said, when he stated that the benching of the players would "speed up the process" of players realizing they "are not holding their end up". What I am stating is that it might not speed up the process with regards to TB's anticipated results......sometimes it back fires! Time will tell!!

Ok now I understand where you were coming from and by seeing the "long faces" TB mentioned at the game Saturday night it might back fire on him. Especially if Haggs was sat because he took a penalty late in the game the night before. I would think if I was him and that was the case I would be thinking why am I being benched when our Captain had 27 minutes of penalties the week before and only had to sit out for a period. I do not know if this is the reason he didn't play but the only one I can think of since he seemed to have a decent game to me on Friday.

 

[sk8tronthepond]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Ok now I understand where you were coming from and by seeing the "long faces" TB mentioned at the game Saturday night it might back fire on him. Especially if Haggs was sat because he took a penalty late in the game the night before. I would think if I was him and that was the case I would be thinking why am I being benched when our Captain had 27 minutes of penalties the week before and only had to sit out for a period. I do not know if this is the reason he didn't play but the only one I can think of since he seemed to have a decent game to me on Friday.

Stop the presses....give that man a cigar!! Bingo!!!

 

[turk181]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Stop the presses....give that man a cigar!! Bingo!!!

make it a Nat Sherman cigar.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Another thought that comes to mind with all the players who have worn the "C" or "A" on their jerseys before coming to school here, perhaps there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

I've been wondering this for a while. Not to mention, too many superstars. Granted, this year we have a few good role players in Miller, Bubela, and I'd also say McGowan, but you get the feeling some of the kids like Bailen feel like they need to do it all themselves.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Ok now I understand where you were coming from and by seeing the "long faces" TB mentioned at the game Saturday night it might back fire on him. Especially if Haggs was sat because he took a penalty late in the game the night before. I would think if I was him and that was the case I would be thinking why am I being benched when our Captain had 27 minutes of penalties the week before and only had to sit out for a period. I do not know if this is the reason he didn't play but the only one I can think of since he seemed to have a decent game to me on Friday.

It's not the first time he's had retaliation penalties this year. Didn't he have a minor/misconduct earlier, and then followed by another similar penalty?

 

[Beman]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Especially if Haggs was sat because he took a penalty late in the game the night before.

I was at the Dartmouth game. He deserved to sit. It was a stupid penalty that reflected poorly on the coach and his staff. Seth did the right thing.

 

[Stay@homeDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

It's not the first time he's had retaliation penalties this year. Didn't he have a minor/misconduct earlier, and then followed by another similar penalty?

I thought he did too but I do not see it in the stats for the year:

Rensselaer | Overall - 8 GP ( 1- 5- 2 .250) | Conf Only - 4 GP ( 0- 4- 0 .000) | Career
------------------------------------|-------------------------------------|-------------------------------------|----------------
## Player POS YR | GP G A PTS PEN/MIN PP SH GW GT | GP G A PTS PEN/MIN PP SH GW GT | GP G A PTS

39 Ryan Haggerty F SO | 7 3 2 5 4/ 8 1 0 1 0 | 3 1 0 1 3/ 6 0 0 0 0 | 42 10 10 20

Must have been the Arcadia game.

 

[Stay@homeDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

I was at the Dartmouth game. He deserved to sit. It was a stupid penalty that reflected poorly on the coach and his staff. Seth did the right thing.

I was there too and you cannot tell me he should have been the only one going to the box out of the 8 guys involved in the scrum. Are you saying Lee breaking a guys stick in retaliation to a penalty followed the next night by another stupid penalty does not reflect poorly on the coach and his staff and that he should have not sat out a game for it? All I am saying is if you are going to sit guys for that type of reason then you better sit all who do it and do not single out certain players. Otherwise, you may cause problems within the team of players thinking why is it acceptable for him and not for me.

 

[Stay@homeDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

I've been wondering this for a while. Not to mention, too many superstars. Granted, this year we have a few good role players in Miller, Bubela, and I'd also say McGowan, but you get the feeling some of the kids like Bailen feel like they need to do it all themselves.

Don't get me going again on Bailen. He must have super glue on his blade since the puck never seems to leave it once he gets it. Guy has probably one of the best slap shots on the team and he hardly ever gets to use it because of him. Bailen is on of the smartest kids on the team (according to GPA's), you would think he would use it to his advantage to let Guy take the shot from the point and be in position looking for a rebound, if the goalie is even able to see the puck and stop it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Don't get me going again on Bailen. He must have super glue on his blade since the puck never seems to leave it once he gets it. Guy has probably one of the best slap shots on the team and he hardly ever gets to use it because of him. Bailen is on of the smartest kids on the team (according to GPA's), you would think he would use it to his advantage to let Guy take the shot from the point and be in position looking for a rebound, if the goalie is even able to see the puck and stop it.

Ever think about why? The opposition KNOWS he's taking the shot, and so they're on him like a shadow. The team very obviously depends on Bailen to take the shot. At least with Laliberté he's been taking it once in a while to mix it up, but they should definitely look to someone else. You're certainly correct that LeBœuf has it. Didn't Phil Hampton also show quite a bit of prowess out there as well?

 

[Stay@homeDad]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Ever think about why? The opposition KNOWS he's taking the shot, and so they're on him like a shadow. The team very obviously depends on Bailen to take the shot. At least with Laliberté he's been taking it once in a while to mix it up, but they should definitely look to someone else. You're certainly correct that LeBœuf has it. Didn't Phil Hampton also show quite a bit of prowess out there as well?

Maybe that is why Haggs got benched Saturday night, for taking a shot and ringing the bell Friday night. Perhaps Seth thought Bailen should have shot that puck instead. Hampton did not look bad.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

Maybe that is why Haggs got benched Saturday night, for taking a shot and ringing the bell Friday night. Perhaps Seth thought Bailen should have shot that puck instead. Hampton did not look bad.

I was there Friday, and although it was clear on the other side of the ice, it was a bit of a dumb instigation.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI Hockey 2012-2013 Part 1: Pocket Protectors and Hockey Sticks

If I'm to understand all this we are concerned about hurting the players feelings or them having a negative reaction to dicipline jeeez if thats the case we do have a problem ! Benching is a tactic thats been used by coaches forever as a motivator(ie:not wanting to be benched again) to improve your level of play, heck wasn't A Rod benched for game 5 ! I hope their not only mad at the coach but they are furious at him and go out in the next game and show just how wrong he was to bench them. Or I guess they can feel like their being picked on just go thru the motions and teach the coach a lesson if thats the reaction thats on them.