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RPI 2023-24 (Part II): The Search for Special Teams Excellence

Originally posted by DavidNardolillo View Post
I think there is plenty of parking in and around HFH, but I agree with Tony that many spaces are impractical and he is right that the walk to HFH can be unacceptably dangerous in icy weather. More use of shuttle buses for adjunct lots would work. Things would also work better if fans showed up sooner than 10 minutes before puck drop.

A parking garage is a tempting idea, but is not a cure-all for the arena experience. Years ago, I was a season ticket holder for hockey at the University of Minnesota and there was a big parking garage close to Mariucci Arena. Many people still left every game early because they didn't want to wait in their car while the parking garage emptied single file after the game.

rpi82 said:
In recent years the solution to the parking problem has been to draw fewer fans. So I can't see building a parking garage for 17 hockey games per year. Do they still offer shuttle busses from North Lot? There's usually a CDTA bus waiting outside as I leave which I assume is a parking shuttle. I never paid much attention as it's never bothered me to park on Peoples by Samaritan or the park and walk. Certainly a new rink would have a much smaller capacity (3K plus or minus 500) and I'm sure any renovation would as well (probably eliminating what are now just concrete bleachers at the east end when they build some sort of structure similar to the west end and, hopefully, create a proper platform for the band). The real capacity of the current arrangement is about 4,000, which we rarely exceed anyway, so I think improving access to existing parking spaces will have to suffice.
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Talk of shuttle busses, street parking, people showing up later and traffic jams is all well and good.

However, the prime directive for being a successful entertainment venue is drive up, turn in, pull in, put it in park and enter structure promptly even if its' five minutes before game time PERIOD!!!. See Joe Bruno stadium. Similar crowds, get there when you can or want to, pull in to either of two FREE surface lots, put it in park and walk about a minute to stadium.

At the Joe the way out for a similar amount of cars is two exits from each lot, right left option at each exit, right left option at the end of any first option choice you make. Sounds kind of like the Fieldhouse lot/parking garage??? Two exits, uphill or downhill option from each exit with another right left option either the bottom or top of the hill (bottom even has an additional straight option) which should yield the same results as the Joe has every night for years. Traffic backup vanishes in less than 10 minutes!!!

It all boils down to do you want to be a successful entertainment venue or don't you????
 
tony/troy said:
Originally posted by DavidNardolillo View Post
I think there is plenty of parking in and around HFH, but I agree with Tony that many spaces are impractical and he is right that the walk to HFH can be unacceptably dangerous in icy weather. More use of shuttle buses for adjunct lots would work. Things would also work better if fans showed up sooner than 10 minutes before puck drop.

A parking garage is a tempting idea, but is not a cure-all for the arena experience. Years ago, I was a season ticket holder for hockey at the University of Minnesota and there was a big parking garage close to Mariucci Arena. Many people still left every game early because they didn't want to wait in their car while the parking garage emptied single file after the game.



Talk of shuttle busses, street parking, people showing up later and traffic jams is all well and good.

However, the prime directive for being a successful entertainment venue is drive up, turn in, pull in, put it in park and enter structure promptly even if its' five minutes before game time PERIOD!!!. See Joe Bruno stadium. Similar crowds, get there when you can or want to, pull in to either of two FREE surface lots, put it in park and walk about a minute to stadium.

At the Joe the way out for a similar amount of cars is two exits from each lot, right left option at each exit, right left option at the end of any first option choice you make. Sounds kind of like the Fieldhouse lot/parking garage??? Two exits, uphill or downhill option from each exit with another right left option either the bottom or top of the hill (bottom even has an additional straight option) which should yield the same results as the Joe has every night for years. Traffic backup vanishes in less than 10 minutes!!!

It all boils down to do you want to be a successful entertainment venue or don't you????
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Let's deal with reality because the Joe and the Field House have little in common so you aren't going to get your dream scenario. First, the days of the Field House as a general purpose entertainment venue are over. Those ended with the Knick/TU/MVP and the GFCC. It's a venue for RPI events where 30%-100% of the audience will be students. That will be even more true if they build a new rink. Second, it's not situated on a commuter school campus like HVCC that already has acres of parking lots.** Third, it's not going to be funded with your tax dollars.

I go to quite a few games at UConn, Yale and QU. The latter has very convenient parking lots and a garage because the athletic facility was the center piece of a massive new dormitory and athletics campus 1/2 mile away on a huge hill but access is limited to a single road up the hill with students from the main campus arriving via shuttles. At Yale I just park on the street but if you are opposed to that it's either a small garage or you hump it from a lot a few blocks away. At UConn it's similar - you either park in a garage near Gampel but get stuck in the crowd getting in and out or you walk 10-15 minutes up hill (or wait for the shuttle bus). Residential campuses, particularly those in built out areas, are not set up for easy-in/easy-out simple parking and that's not going to change for an athletic venue with crowds less than 20 days per year. That's reality.

** I strongly suspect that is one of the reasons they lost their affiliation in the MiLB reorganization. The Joe is a better stadium and drew better crowds than the one in Fishkill in the shadow of two prisons. However, it's one thing to play in a summer only short-season league when many commuter students aren't around and parking spaces are readily available. It's quite another when you have a new schedule that extends from the early part of April to mid-September (longer if in playoffs).
 
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Wicked Slappaahs said:
Yes. Also, while the Appleton refresh is nice, it was very limited in scope as they are hemmed in by very low ceilings, similar to but even lower than Messa Rink. The wooden, backless bleacher seating remains, for example. Essentially the improvements revolved around locker rooms, the main entrance, concessions and I think maybe a new ice sheet and mechanicals.

What also needs to be considered re: the HFH is the growth of women's hockey. I don't know what the current women's locker room setup is like, but I'd be willing to guess it is not as nice as the men's. If I'm right then that would have to be rolled into consideration for what to do with HFH. UAlbany just completed a major renovation to its basketball arena - which was only 15 or so years from its last reno - and the new work includes all new men's and women's locker rooms --which are identical in layout , creature comforts, etc.

In any event, I would love to see the report that RPI is getting...and hope we have some news soon as to the direction. We certainly could use the distraction and excitement toward arena upgrades or new building. If they can find a patch of dirt on-campus, then I think building new would be the way to go... It keeps the kids playing and practicing on campus while the new barn is built. The old HFH footprint could then be repurposed. If you try to renovate the old girl, then you are essentially signing up to play home games in the MVP and muni rinks for two years. Not ideal.
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I have a soft spot for Appleton as my daughter is going to SLU. I’m very excited to see what the study finds for HFH.
 
RPIfanNYC said:
Having recently attended my first game in a decade at HFH after coming back from California, I couldn't believe there hasn't been anything done about the parking at HFH in the intervening decade. I certainly understand that the parking priorities on campus should be geared toward faculty, staff and students that use it on the daily, but the fact that RPI has a D1 program which clearly draws in fans like myself, alumni or other people from the commnity and there is no easy way to park and attend is crazy to me.

The HFH has a great nostaglic charm to me, it definitely gives off "old time hockey" vibes like forcing the visting team to walk through the arena, the dark-ish corners of walkways, the concourse right at ice level (practically), etc. but if you are going to modernize HFH by renovating or replacing, then a modern parking solution has to be a part of whatever happens.
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Curious if just back from California and my dropping season tickets and parking pass (both held since 1977) had the same results when trying to park there. Questions:

1) Did you drive up to one of the lots with a $5 or $10 bill sitting on your lap???

2) Were you told by the kid at the lot entrance that he could not take your money and that you could not park there???

3) All the while were you staring (in disbelief) at a lot still almost half empty just 15 minutes or so prior to game time yet you could not pay or park there???

4) Before leaving, did you glance around you to check how long the line of cars was that were waiting for you to get out of the way so they could enter and there were none???

5) Did you just go bleep this and drive back home and watch an SEC football game and/or the Rangers.

You know, sometimes all you have to do is simply not be stupid!!!

Again, do you want to be a successful entertainment venue or don't you.

P.S. In the interest of full disclosure, since that night of hands on viewing of pure unadulterated, adject idiocy, I have occasionally driven the the Alumni House to catch the FREE shuttle bus. Make that any time I can or want to both get there early enough and stand in the cold waiting for the next bus to arrive. At least let's give them some credit where it is due. Renting a CDTA bus and driver for 4 hours or so while collecting no revenue is not cheap.

In reality, the shuttle probably is not going to survive much past this season (unless they are really as stupid as they sometimes seem). Just not used by enough people to result in enough ticket sales to justify the cost. Excluding Freakout, have never been on it in either direction with a ridership figure that reached 10. On one trip to the Fieldhouse, the ridership was one (me)!!!
 
rpi82 said:
I like the picture of the "state-of-the-art video room." It looks like a small, windows-less conference room with a 43" TV hanging on the wall. Compared to the stadium seating rooms with massive screens that are common in college athletics, it's almost funny. Our state-of-the-art calendar subscription must have run out about 20 years ago.
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Oh that’s state of the art alright?! That looks like something out of a high school gym. It’s ridiculous
 
tony/troy said:
Thank you for the Matthews update. Obviously, I have not been there for quite some time now. However, right after NU bought it from the city (for $1 if I recall correctly) and spent a whole lot renovating it, the place was really something. Too bad that, apparently, they didn't do it to last as they now appear to be right back where they were in the early 80's. If you do renovate, you have to do it right.

This may be a double whammy for NU as, I believe, they play hoops at Matthews too.
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No problem. It’s a shame that they didn’t do it right cause it’s a nice barn. Old place
 
rpi82 said:
I like the picture of the "state-of-the-art video room." It looks like a small, windows-less conference room with a 43" TV hanging on the wall. Compared to the stadium seating rooms with massive screens that are common in college athletics, it's almost funny. Our state-of-the-art calendar subscription must have run out about 20 years ago.
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Exactly right 82.
 
Like the city, it's a campus built on a hill...not all that unusual here in the northeast. Parking garages are insanely expensive to build, for what you end up with...and as has been pointed out, it would all be for 16 or so home games and then sit empty for the other 345 days of the year. On a busy night (Freakout) I think the delay in leaving MIGHT be ten minutes... try that in any other city parking environment ! Union has essentially ZERO fan parking. If you think the sidewalks at RPI are bad, you haven't been to a winter game at Union...Schenectady is city where street plowing is optional...never mind cleared sidewalks ! LOL
 
Engineers said:
I have a soft spot for Appleton as my daughter is going to SLU. I’m very excited to see what the study finds for HFH.
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Agreed --it is one of the remaining great old barns in college hockey ! I wasn't dismissing the work --only that the fan/game viewing experience is essentially unchanged. I too am hopeful that the HFH study will lead us to a either a fully renovated HFH or a new building. I'd be OK with either !
 
tony/troy said:
In reality, the shuttle probably is not going to survive much past this season (unless they are really as stupid as they sometimes seem). Just not used by enough people to result in enough ticket sales to justify the cost. Excluding Freakout, have never been on it in either direction with a ridership figure that reached 10. On one trip to the Fieldhouse, the ridership was one (me)!!!
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The last time I was at the Field House was for the playoff series against Brown in 2013, when I was a spry young fellow of 64. There is little reason to think that those in charge should be eager to cater to my desires in regard to parking.

But when I went in 2013, I parked at the Alumni House and took the shuttle, and it was standing room only. It was enjoyable, because I actually encountered one of my RPI classmates on the bus.

In the event that I might seriously consider making the long trip from south central Pennsylvania to Troy to see RPI hockey again in the future, I would be sorry to hear that the shuttle option was no longer available.
 
tony/troy said:
Thank you for the Matthews update. Obviously, I have not been there for quite some time now. However, right after NU bought it from the city (for $1 if I recall correctly) and spent a whole lot renovating it, the place was really something. Too bad that, apparently, they didn't do it to last as they now appear to be right back where they were in the early 80's. If you do renovate, you have to do it right.

This may be a double whammy for NU as, I believe, they play hoops at Matthews too.
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I was at Matthews a few weeks ago. Very large external steel support beams have been erected in the parking lot to keep the south wall of the building stable. It's a great building but it looks like the clock is ticking on it.
 
Wicked Slappaahs said:
Like the city, it's a campus built on a hill...not all that unusual here in the northeast. Parking garages are insanely expensive to build, for what you end up with...and as has been pointed out, it would all be for 16 or so home games and then sit empty for the other 345 days of the year. On a busy night (Freakout) I think the delay in leaving MIGHT be ten minutes... try that in any other city parking environment ! Union has essentially ZERO fan parking. If you think the sidewalks at RPI are bad, you haven't been to a winter game at Union...Schenectady is city where street plowing is optional...never mind cleared sidewalks ! LOL
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If the Institute decides to stick with the current HFH footprint, you could build a parking garage directly behind the Field House (between HFH and East Campus Arena) hat presumably would be close enough to all facilities to provide parking not only for hockey but also for basketball, football, and any other events on that part of campus (e.g. Commencement).
 
Since I don't live in the Tri-City area, whenever l have been at the HFH in this millennium and even before that, I also wanted to also watch the pregame skate. I used to park on the east side of the HFH, but more recently I parked on Burdette just north of Peoples. That is no problem because I got there before 99% of the other spectators.

BTW, I got the feeling that from other posts here that the lot south of the HFH is for the HFH. I thought that it was for those living in the BARH. Am I wrong?
 
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Wicked Slappaahs said:
If you think the sidewalks at RPI are bad, you haven't been to a winter game at Union...Schenectady is city where street plowing is optional...never mind cleared sidewalks ! LOL
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Oh, I agree, but a slip and fall on private property will be RPI's problem to pay out on. That doesn't justify a parking garage, but the building and grounds staff need to be more attentive when there are events on campus when bad weather is expected, or be properly compensated with overtime to keep walkways clear.
 
Ralph Baer said:
Since I don't live in the Tri-City area, whenever l have been at the HFH in this millennium and even before that, I also want to also watch the pregame skate. I used to park on the east side of the HFH, but more recently I park on Burdette just east of Peoples. That is no problem because I get there before 99% of the other spectators.

BTW, I got the feeling that from other posts here that the lot south of the HFH is for the HFH. I thought that it was for those living in the BARH. Am I wrong?
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I think most of the prime parking in the lots adjacent to the rink are reserved for those that pay for a parking pass--although some spaces are reserved for residents of those dormitories. In recent years, plenty of parking within easy distance on Peoples Avenue or around Samaritan, as you have highlighted, if you don't mind that short hill up to HFH.
 
rpi82 said:
** I strongly suspect that is one of the reasons they lost their affiliation in the MiLB reorganization. The Joe is a better stadium and drew better crowds than the one in Fishkill in the shadow of two prisons. However, it's one thing to play in a summer only short-season league when many commuter students aren't around and parking spaces are readily available. It's quite another when you have a new schedule that extends from the early part of April to mid-September (longer if in playoffs).
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I agree with the rest of your post, but offer a comment on the ValleyCats situation. The team recently settled a lawsuit with MLB over their exclusion from the new structure. Some people who follow the team more closely have offered that the decision was not based on merit, but I think you have hit on where the practical issues were. The Joe was also a shared facility with HVCC for use by the school's baseball team, but with only one set of locker-rooms, meaning there would be some scheduling conflicts. Because they didn't own the park, the team didn't have control of when needed facilities upgrades could occur.
 
DavidNardolillo said:
Oh, I agree, but a slip and fall on private property will be RPI's problem to pay out on. That doesn't justify a parking garage, but the building and grounds staff need to be more attentive when there are events on campus when bad weather is expected, or be properly compensated with overtime to keep walkways clear.
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Completely agree with this ! And these days with all of the motorized equipment, all we're really talking about is one piece of sidewalk machinery which usually has a power broom on the front and a salter on the back. Not hard to achieve ...to your point.
 
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