RPI 2023-24 (Part II): The Search for Special Teams Excellence

[DavidNardolillo]

I think this is a reasonable time line. The only site I could think that might possibly make sense is the Upper Renwyck Field in the Detroit Drive and Georgian Terrace parcels. It looks like there's ample room there for a new build and it would save a TON of hassle as it keeps within the campus footprint (no residential neighbor issues) as well eliminating the need to arrange for 2 years worth of practice and game ice time somewhere else. Possibly the parcel where the Nuclear building is off of Tibbetts ....the last time I was thru there those buildings looked like they needed to be razed.... LOL

A lot of good thoughts from you all on here on the rink issue. Not a lot of options for an alternate site if HFH is unavailable: MVP in downtown Albany makes the most sense geographically, but I think the current set-up for hockey is terrible with poor quality ice. Major scheduling headaches with Siena basketball...and the women's hockey team might have to find its own place. The only other option I can think of is Glens Falls. Sure, it's an hour away, but the locals are filling the place for the Thunder. Anywhere else? I read somewhere that the HVCC rink, which could seat 1000 people and might have been an emergency option, is no longer operating as it needs basic upgrades.

I heard some chatter over the years about whether RPI had earmarked some land for a potential new arena in a strategic plan map of the campus, but I could never find any evidence online to suggest this had any validity.

 

[DavidNardolillo]

I suspect that Smith recognizes the defensive weakness of this team, and that is why he brought in Goffredo midseason. Goffredo seems to be showing sparks of talent, but he certainly isn't a Pothier, Hammond, Friday, Dark, or Robinson.

Goffredo has played well and has been a plus. I am not aware that the order of events that led to the roster spot being open has been explained; Dylan Davies was removed from the roster around the same time.

 

[DavidNardolillo]

This was literally my original point before it got spun into me being a Watson hater. Simply that the analytics imply he is roughly at even value with what he would be expected to give up given the porous defense. I really like JW he has done a lot of good stuff here, all i disagreed on was the notion that he would be guaranteed a starting job in a better conference.

Watson is a good goaltender. I think a factor with him is that he has a bit of an injury history in his time here, and I think he was going out there at less than 100% sometimes. His stretches of poor play seemed to precede some time off to heal injuries.

Hard to predict what happens in the transfer portal; such a mixed bag and wild card. Players leaving to go pro instead of staying to try and move the program forward happened to Appert, and it happens to more successful programs--I remember well when Kyle Okposo left the University of Minnesota in December right after the World Juniors to join the Islanders. When Don Lucia, only 4 years removed from back-to-back national championships complained, the Islanders GM Garth Snow offered these quotes to the Minneapolis Star Tribune (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2007/12/21_islesgm.php):

"Quite frankly, we weren't happy with the program there," Snow told the paper. "They have a responsibility to coach, to make Kyle a better player, and they were not doing that."

He continued, "[Okposo] just wasn't getting better — bottom line. And to me, that's the frustrating part. We entrusted the coach there to turn him into a better hockey player, and it wasn't happening. We feel more comfortable in him developing right under our watch."

"Whether it was Kyle or another player, until things change in that program we'd probably make the same decision," Snow told the Star-Tribune. "There should be a coach there that looks in the mirror. ... I don't think we'd be at this point if he was being coached properly."​

Life comes at you fast on the varsity team of life!

 

[RPI Hockey Guy]

...

 

[AspyDad]

This was literally my original point before it got spun into me being a Watson hater. Simply that the analytics imply he is roughly at even value with what he would be expected to give up given the porous defense. I really like JW he has done a lot of good stuff here, all i disagreed on was the notion that he would be guaranteed a starting job in a better conference.

Did not call you a Watson hater. I feel bad bx the young man sees like 80 plus shots most weekends. Taking me too serious.

 

[AspyDad]

Really worst time to build a new rink bx of inflation but we do need one.

 

[tony/troy]

Most buildings rated any higher than structurally unsound can be renovated to any level desired. Not all that sure a new and probably far more expensive new rink is needed. At least three eastern schools that I know of have made out just fine renovating what they had. The best of the three pre renovation (SLU/Appleton) was nowhere close to what the Fieldhouse is today four decades since its' last significant renovation. Examples:

1) UVM/Gutterson- Was there both pre and post renovation. Absolute dump pre renovation. Mostly bleacher seating. So unbearably cold that between periods people headed through an indoor walkway from the rink to a very large heated indoor practice facility right behind it to get warm. When you arrived there you were "greeted" by multiple folding tables covered with your choice of either hot cider or hot chocolate. Today, it is very nice and UVM went on a hugh run not long after the renovation. The run did not stop because of any facility. It stopped because of what, in retrospect, was a very stupid administrative decision the leave the ECAC.

2) NU/Matthews- Was there both pre and post renovation. Another absolute dump pre renovation. So bad that by the early 80's the top deck was condemned and no one was allowed up there. Today, it is extremely nice and NU is doing just fine thank you.

3) SLU/Appleton- Have only been there pre renovation. Unlike the other two it was never a dump. In fact, it was always fairly nice. Today, based on what I have heard from people who have been there, it is a beauty and SLU is doing OK.

Nope, not everybody need a new rink every time. You often do just fine dancing with who brung you.

However, what you MUST have is close, easy and hassle free, and non perilous PARKING for EVERYONE who may want to go to a game complete with machines that take cash, make change, take cards or can read your phone. That would be the surface lot right across from the Fieldhouse separated by only Cook Street. Based on a commonly accepted formula for arena parking, that would be one parking spot for every ten seats or near 500 spots. Present surface lot can't even come close to doing that. So, the only new thing you need is a multi level garage to make the facility viable and someplace more occasional or casual fans would even consider going to.

Yes, there are two more smaller lots behind the Fieldhouse but neither meet the above criteria for the hockey arena. First, they are up a very significant incline (and decline). Not exactly easy or hassle free though they are passable (barely) for hoops and football. Secondly, the sidewalk on the incline can get downright treacherous when it is covered with any slow or ice. In addition, when there is a lot of snow, the plows have little choice but to throw it on the sidewalk as there is nowhere else. That forces people to walk right on Cook Street and that is not a very good idea.

Want more people to come? Got to give them what they need to make it attractive to them and that starts with ample and safe on site PARKING.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Most buildings rated any higher than structurally unsound can be renovated to any level desired. Not all that sure a new and probably far more expensive new rink is needed. At least three eastern schools that I know of have made out just fine renovating what they had. The best of the three pre renovation (SLU/Appleton) was nowhere close to what the Fieldhouse is today four decades since its' last significant renovation. Examples:

1) UVM/Gutterson- Was there both pre and post renovation. Absolute dump pre renovation. Mostly bleacher seating. So unbearably cold that between periods people headed through an indoor walkway from the rink to a very large heated indoor practice facility right behind it to get warm. When you arrived there you were "greeted" by multiple folding tables covered with your choice of either hot cider or hot chocolate. Today, it is very nice and UVM went on a hugh run not long after the renovation. The run did not stop because of any facility. It stopped because of what, in retrospect, was a very stupid administrative decision the leave the ECAC.

2) NU/Matthews- Was there both pre and post renovation. Another absolute dump pre renovation. So bad that by the early 80's the top deck was condemned and no one was allowed up there. Today, it is extremely nice and NU is doing just fine thank you.

3) SLU/Appleton- Have only been there pre renovation. Unlike the other two it was never a dump. In fact, it was always fairly nice. Today, based on what I have heard from people who have been there, it is a beauty and SLU is doing OK.

Nope, not everybody need a new rink every time. You often do just fine dancing with who brung you.

However, what you MUST have is close, easy and hassle free, and non perilous PARKING for EVERYONE who may want to go to a game complete with machines that take cash, make change, take cards or can read your phone. That would be the surface lot right across from the Fieldhouse separated by only Cook Street. Based on a commonly accepted formula for arena parking, that would be one parking spot for every ten seats or near 500 spots. Present surface lot can't even come close to doing that. So, the only new thing you need is a multi level garage to make the facility viable and someplace more occasional or casual fans would even consider going to.

Yes, there are two more smaller lots behind the Fieldhouse but neither meet the above criteria for the hockey arena. First, they are up a very significant incline (and decline). Not exactly easy or hassle free though they are passable (barely) for hoops and football. Secondly, the sidewalk on the incline can get downright treacherous when it is covered with any slow or ice. In addition, when there is a lot of snow, the plows have little choice but to throw it on the sidewalk as there is nowhere else. That forces people to walk right on Cook Street and that is not a very good idea.

Want more people to come? Got to give them what they need to make it attractive to them and that starts with ample and safe on site PARKING.

Cook? I thought that was called Peoples Ave. as on the other side of Burdett.

 

[Engineers]

Most buildings rated any higher than structurally unsound can be renovated to any level desired. Not all that sure a new and probably far more expensive new rink is needed. At least three eastern schools that I know of have made out just fine renovating what they had. The best of the three pre renovation (SLU/Appleton) was nowhere close to what the Fieldhouse is today four decades since its' last significant renovation. Examples:

1) UVM/Gutterson- Was there both pre and post renovation. Absolute dump pre renovation. Mostly bleacher seating. So unbearably cold that between periods people headed through an indoor walkway from the rink to a very large heated indoor practice facility right behind it to get warm. When you arrived there you were "greeted" by multiple folding tables covered with your choice of either hot cider or hot chocolate. Today, it is very nice and UVM went on a hugh run not long after the renovation. The run did not stop because of any facility. It stopped because of what, in retrospect, was a very stupid administrative decision the leave the ECAC.

2) NU/Matthews- Was there both pre and post renovation. Another absolute dump pre renovation. So bad that by the early 80's the top deck was condemned and no one was allowed up there. Today, it is extremely nice and NU is doing just fine thank you.

3) SLU/Appleton- Have only been there pre renovation. Unlike the other two it was never a dump. In fact, it was always fairly nice. Today, based on what I have heard from people who have been there, it is a beauty and SLU is doing OK.

Nope, not everybody need a new rink every time. You often do just fine dancing with who brung you.

However, what you MUST have is close, easy and hassle free, and non perilous PARKING for EVERYONE who may want to go to a game complete with machines that take cash, make change, take cards or can read your phone. That would be the surface lot right across from the Fieldhouse separated by only Cook Street. Based on a commonly accepted formula for arena parking, that would be one parking spot for every ten seats or near 500 spots. Present surface lot can't even come close to doing that. So, the only new thing you need is a multi level garage to make the facility viable and someplace more occasional or casual fans would even consider going to.

Yes, there are two more smaller lots behind the Fieldhouse but neither meet the above criteria for the hockey arena. First, they are up a very significant incline (and decline). Not exactly easy or hassle free though they are passable (barely) for hoops and football. Secondly, the sidewalk on the incline can get downright treacherous when it is covered with any slow or ice. In addition, when there is a lot of snow, the plows have little choice but to throw it on the sidewalk as there is nowhere else. That forces people to walk right on Cook Street and that is not a very good idea.

Want more people to come? Got to give them what they need to make it attractive to them and that starts with ample and safe on site PARKING.

Matthews is being torn down in the next year or so. Building is sinking. Parts of the upper bowl are roped off to fans. It’s in rough shape. NU has the same problem as us where to build a new arena. Not much real estate left in Boston to build a new arena so they are building where Matthews currently sits.

 

[RPIfanNYC]

Having recently attended my first game in a decade at HFH after coming back from California, I couldn't believe there hasn't been anything done about the parking at HFH in the intervening decade. I certainly understand that the parking priorities on campus should be geared toward faculty, staff and students that use it on the daily, but the fact that RPI has a D1 program which clearly draws in fans like myself, alumni or other people from the commnity and there is no easy way to park and attend is crazy to me.

The HFH has a great nostaglic charm to me, it definitely gives off "old time hockey" vibes like forcing the visting team to walk through the arena, the dark-ish corners of walkways, the concourse right at ice level (practically), etc. but if you are going to modernize HFH by renovating or replacing, then a modern parking solution has to be a part of whatever happens.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Having recently attended my first game in a decade at HFH after coming back from California, I couldn't believe there hasn't been anything done about the parking at HFH in the intervening decade. I certainly understand that the parking priorities on campus should be geared toward faculty, staff and students that use it on the daily, but the fact that RPI has a D1 program which clearly draws in fans like myself, alumni or other people from the commnity and there is no easy way to park and attend is crazy to me.

The HFH has a great nostaglic charm to me, it definitely gives off "old time hockey" vibes like forcing the visting team to walk through the arena, the dark-ish corners of walkways, the concourse right at ice level (practically), etc. but if you are going to modernize HFH by renovating or replacing, then a modern parking solution has to be a part of whatever happens.

A modern parking solution is to ban cars.

BTW, forcing the visiting team to walk through the arena is fairly recent.

 

[DavidNardolillo]

Yes, there are two more smaller lots behind the Fieldhouse but neither meet the above criteria for the hockey arena. First, they are up a very significant incline (and decline). Not exactly easy or hassle free though they are passable (barely) for hoops and football. Secondly, the sidewalk on the incline can get downright treacherous when it is covered with any slow or ice. In addition, when there is a lot of snow, the plows have little choice but to throw it on the sidewalk as there is nowhere else. That forces people to walk right on Cook Street and that is not a very good idea.

Want more people to come? Got to give them what they need to make it attractive to them and that starts with ample and safe on site PARKING.

I think there is plenty of parking in and around HFH, but I agree with Tony that many spaces are impractical and he is right that the walk to HFH can be unacceptably dangerous in icy weather. More use of shuttle buses for adjunct lots would work. Things would also work better if fans showed up sooner than 10 minutes before puck drop.

A parking garage is a tempting idea, but is not a cure-all for the arena experience. Years ago, I was a season ticket holder for hockey at the University of Minnesota and there was a big parking garage close to Mariucci Arena. Many people still left every game early because they didn't want to wait in their car while the parking garage emptied single file after the game.

 

[DavidNardolillo]

BTW, forcing the visiting team to walk through the arena is fairly recent.

The steps from the visitors locker room to the Zamboni doors were removed a couple of years ago, which is the reason the visiting teams now walk on the concourse to get to their bench. I think they may have broken, but I never saw or heard an explanation. I think the coaches are happier not having to walk on the ice, but I don't think it is an ideal situation.

 

[rpi82]

I think there is plenty of parking in and around HFH, but I agree with Tony that many spaces are impractical and he is right that the walk to HFH can be unacceptably dangerous in icy weather. More use of shuttle buses for adjunct lots would work. Things would also work better if fans showed up sooner than 10 minutes before puck drop.

A parking garage is a tempting idea, but is not a cure-all for the arena experience. Years ago, I was a season ticket holder for hockey at the University of Minnesota and there was a big parking garage close to Mariucci Arena. Many people still left every game early because they didn't want to wait in their car while the parking garage emptied single file after the game.

In recent years the solution to the parking problem has been to draw fewer fans. So I can't see building a parking garage for 17 hockey games per year. Do they still offer shuttle busses from North Lot? There's usually a CDTA bus waiting outside as I leave which I assume is a parking shuttle. I never paid much attention as it's never bothered me to park on Peoples by Samaritan or the park and walk. Certainly a new rink would have a much smaller capacity (3K plus or minus 500) and I'm sure any renovation would as well (probably eliminating what are now just concrete bleachers at the east end when they build some sort of structure similar to the west end and, hopefully, create a proper platform for the band). The real capacity of the current arrangement is about 4,000, which we rarely exceed anyway, so I think improving access to existing parking spaces will have to suffice.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Matthews is being torn down in the next year or so. Building is sinking. Parts of the upper bowl are roped off to fans. It’s in rough shape. NU has the same problem as us where to build a new arena. Not much real estate left in Boston to build a new arena so they are building where Matthews currently sits.

Yes. Also, while the Appleton refresh is nice, it was very limited in scope as they are hemmed in by very low ceilings, similar to but even lower than Messa Rink. The wooden, backless bleacher seating remains, for example. Essentially the improvements revolved around locker rooms, the main entrance, concessions and I think maybe a new ice sheet and mechanicals.

What also needs to be considered re: the HFH is the growth of women's hockey. I don't know what the current women's locker room setup is like, but I'd be willing to guess it is not as nice as the men's. If I'm right then that would have to be rolled into consideration for what to do with HFH. UAlbany just completed a major renovation to its basketball arena - which was only 15 or so years from its last reno - and the new work includes all new men's and women's locker rooms --which are identical in layout , creature comforts, etc.

In any event, I would love to see the report that RPI is getting...and hope we have some news soon as to the direction. We certainly could use the distraction and excitement toward arena upgrades or new building. If they can find a patch of dirt on-campus, then I think building new would be the way to go... It keeps the kids playing and practicing on campus while the new barn is built. The old HFH footprint could then be repurposed. If you try to renovate the old girl, then you are essentially signing up to play home games in the MVP and muni rinks for two years. Not ideal.

 

[Ralph Baer]

What also needs to be considered re: the HFH is the growth of women's hockey. I don't know what the current women's locker room setup is like, but I'd be willing to guess it is not as nice as the men's. If I'm right then that would have to be rolled into consideration for what to do with HFH. UAlbany just completed a major renovation to its basketball arena - which was only 15 or so years from its last reno - and the new work includes all new men's and women's locker rooms --which are identical in layout , creature comforts, etc.

The M & W locker rooms look nearly identical to me. https://rpiathletics.com/sports/2010...8.aspx?id=2762 It states that the video room is shared. I can't comment on the other parts.

 

[DrDemento]

I think there is plenty of parking in and around HFH, but I agree with Tony that many spaces are impractical and he is right that the walk to HFH can be unacceptably dangerous in icy weather. More use of shuttle buses for adjunct lots would work. Things would also work better if fans showed up sooner than 10 minutes before puck drop.

A parking garage is a tempting idea, but is not a cure-all for the arena experience. Years ago, I was a season ticket holder for hockey at the University of Minnesota and there was a big parking garage close to Mariucci Arena. Many people still left every game early because they didn't want to wait in their car while the parking garage emptied single file after the game.

Similar experience at Princeton for years at Hobey Baker rink. If you did not run out to your car in the parking garage early, you could sit in it forever trying to get out (well - it seemed like forever after a loss)

 

[rpi82]

The M & W locker rooms look nearly identical to me. https://rpiathletics.com/sports/2010...8.aspx?id=2762 It states that the video room is shared. I can't comment on the other parts.

I like the picture of the "state-of-the-art video room." It looks like a small, windows-less conference room with a 43" TV hanging on the wall. Compared to the stadium seating rooms with massive screens that are common in college athletics, it's almost funny. Our state-of-the-art calendar subscription must have run out about 20 years ago.

 

[tony/troy]

Matthews is being torn down in the next year or so. Building is sinking. Parts of the upper bowl are roped off to fans. It’s in rough shape. NU has the same problem as us where to build a new arena. Not much real estate left in Boston to build a new arena so they are building where Matthews currently sits.

Thank you for the Matthews update. Obviously, I have not been there for quite some time now. However, right after NU bought it from the city (for $1 if I recall correctly) and spent a whole lot renovating it, the place was really something. Too bad that, apparently, they didn't do it to last as they now appear to be right back where they were in the early 80's. If you do renovate, you have to do it right.

This may be a double whammy for NU as, I believe, they play hoops at Matthews too.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Thank you for the Matthews update. Obviously, I have not been there for quite some time now. However, right after NU bought it from the city (for $1 if I recall correctly) and spent a whole lot renovating it, the place was really something. Too bad that, apparently, they didn't do it to last as they now appear to be right back where they were in the early 80's. If you do renovate, you have to do it right.

This may be a double whammy for NU as, I believe, they play hoops at Matthews too.

The only time I was ever at Matthews was on 3/4/69 when RPI lost 4-2 to BU in a first round ECAC playoff game. It was still called the Boston Arena then.