I agree! He’s a proven winner. He’s killing it in Dubuque. Unsurprisingly
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RPI 2023-24: In Our 200th Year, We're Getting It Right
- Thread starter Ralph Baer
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I agree! He’s a proven winner. He’s killing it in Dubuque. Unsurprisingly
Let's do a history lesson for those a little newer to the Program Kirk was a great college hockey player and an even greater Engineer in his junior year he found out he had cancer he had to sit out his senior year to recieve treatment as everyone expected he kicked cancers *** and he chose to return to RPI to complete his degree and finish his D1 hockey career here, that's what he thinks about this institution(He was so popular with the fan base he could have been Mayor of Troy if he wanted). He graduated and had a killer pro career in the America League and has subsequently became a highly regarded coach. Do you think this is the kind of Guy a Young Kid,a Family Advisor or a Parent would want to drop his Kid off in Troy to fulfill his potential imo YES that is the bottom line of recruiting not the locker room not the building or not covid. This is what we lack and unless we change will never have.
Spot on. Let's look at the recent turnarounds in College Hockey. Michigan St. And Maine. Two young guys who had great recruiting contacts that they were able to leverage quickly. Kirk could turn this around quickly.
Not that I remember, but I do not know how bad specific things were in 65-66 which was the worst overall. We gave up so many goals and scored few ourselves that special team stats were probably poor.
In 65-66 there was a strong feeling the rebound would be quick. Two years from final 4 appearance. Freshman team was loaded (Freshman team couldn't be on varsity back then). I went to most of the freshman games. I was told they wouldn't let the freshman scrimmage the varsity (protect the varsity). Biggest worry was players making the Dean's list (the other one)
If Kirk is the right guy then I want him too. However, I’m confused by those saying a key problem is our coaching staff lacks experienced recruiters and then wanting to hire a head guy without any recruiting experience. Kirk has one year of college experience (with us) and IIRC he was the volunteer assistant. I don’t think that position was even allowed to recruit off-campus. Perhaps his new connections in junior hockey will help compensate for that, but it is something to consider.
If Kirk is the right guy then I want him too. However, I’m confused by those saying a key problem is our coaching staff lacks experienced recruiters and then wanting to hire a head guy without any recruiting experience. Kirk has one year of college experience (with us) and IIRC he was the volunteer assistant. I don’t think that position was even allowed to recruit off-campus. Perhaps his new connections in junior hockey will help compensate for that, but it is something to consider.
He's the HC at Dubuque. As I'm sure you are aware, the USHL is a huge pool where college players come from. Kirk and the Fighting Saints are sitting atop the standings.
Wicked Slappaahs
I miss Tie Domi
Ralph you have been watching/following RPI hockey for a long time. Have you ever seen a season were we are this bad at special teams? Seems to me this season might go down as one of the worst seasons in terms of special teams and defensive play. I will say this if Dave was coaching anywhere outside of NCAA hockey he would have been fired 8 games ago. We’re currently operating a pk at 67.% clip. That’s historically bad. Your thoughts lol
Doc demento same question to you.
This is perhaps what alarms me the most. Like regular defense, the PK is ALL about effort and attitude. Period. We have plenty of skilled athletes who are more than capable of killing penalties.
So, either they don't understand what Smith wants them doing on the kill, OR they aren't 110% committed in their effort and attitude.... either way, that's not a pretty picture.
He's the HC at Dubuque. As I'm sure you are aware, the USHL is a huge pool where college players come from. Kirk and the Fighting Saints are sitting atop the standings.
Yes I'm aware that he's in his second year in the USHL (points leader in division/2nd in the league after a mid-pack finish last year) and that it's the #1 junior league for top college teams. I'm also aware that most of the better players are committed before they even get there so, hopefully, he's developing connections that extend to lower levels too. We've identified and gotten pre-USHL "commitments" from a number of players that went on to successful college careers (Fontaine, MacDonald, Sarlo, etc.), but getting them to Troy has been an issue. Hopefully Kirk would do better at that although factors like reputation, exposure, competition, facilities and now NIL money also come into play. But it can't be denied that he's never recruited at the college level and he's just now establishing himself in juniors. His 7 years as an ECHL coach counts for very little in the college game. Hell, Chuck Weber had a longer and even more successful run as an ECHL and AHL coach and most here seem to think that counts for nothing. It's also not that common to go directly from a regular USHL team to college head coach (most become assistants at big programs). Even an obvious exception, Jim Montgomery, spent three years in Dubuque (after 4 years as assistant here with Seth) and won two USHL championships before advancing to a top position in a college program. It doesn't mean Kirk couldn't be an exception too but they'd better be willing to ante up for a strong staff (with wider recruiting ties and experience than Kirk) for him to have a legitimate chance at making it happen.
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Either way it’s not good. I have noticed the players seem to be out of place on the pk. How many times have we seen an opposing player left wide open in front of our goalie. The blue paint is left wide open. Ive looked back were operating the worst pk in recorded history at RPI lol dave seems to be good at breaking these records. Wasn’t it a few years ago we lost every single away game? lolThis is perhaps what alarms me the most. Like regular defense, the PK is ALL about effort and attitude. Period. We have plenty of skilled athletes who are more than capable of killing penalties.
So, either they don't understand what Smith wants them doing on the kill, OR they aren't 110% committed in their effort and attitude.... either way, that's not a pretty picture.
engineerhockeyfan
PUCKMAN RULES!!!
This is perhaps what alarms me the most. Like regular defense, the PK is ALL about effort and attitude. Period. We have plenty of skilled athletes who are more than capable of killing penalties.
So, either they don't understand what Smith wants them doing on the kill, OR they aren't 110% committed in their effort and attitude.... either way, that's not a pretty picture.
You are correct, but it is not just the PK. Nobody seems to be committed to defense. It could be that they just don't understand the system, or they just don't want to play defense.
As you say, Not a pretty picture.
Yes I'm aware that he's in his second year in the USHL (points leader in division/2nd in the league after a mid-pack finish last year) and that it's the #1 junior league for top college teams. I'm also aware that most of the better players are committed before they even get there so, hopefully, he's developing connections that extend to lower levels too. We've identified and gotten pre-USHL "commitments" from a number of players that went on to successful college careers (Fontaine, MacDonald, Sarlo, etc.), but getting them to Troy has been an issue. Hopefully Kirk would do better at that although factors like reputation, exposure, competition, facilities and now NIL money also come into play. But it can't be denied that he's never recruited at the college level and he's just now establishing himself in juniors. His 7 years as an ECHL coach counts for very little in the college game. Hell, Chuck Weber had a longer and even more successful run as an ECHL and AHL coach and most here seem to think that counts for nothing. It's also not that common to go directly from a regular USHL team to college head coach (most become assistants at big programs). Even an obvious exception, Jim Montgomery, spent three years in Dubuque (after 4 years as assistant here with Seth) and won two USHL championships before advancing to a top position in a college program. It doesn't mean Kirk couldn't be an exception too but they'd better be willing to ante up for a strong staff (with wider recruiting ties and experience than Kirk) for him to have a legitimate chance at making it happen.
Generally speaking I think this is true. Many arguments on here of why he would be a good coach are very solid arguments as well. Just want to say that this post defends very well against the argument someone made to me that Kirk and Ben Barr have the same resume, which is just entirely untrue. That is not to say Kirk could not do a good job here, I actually imagine he would. It just is entirely untrue that he is an equally qualified candidate as BB.
Wicked Slappaahs
I miss Tie Domi
You are correct, but it is not just the PK. Nobody seems to be committed to defense. It could be that they just don't understand the system, or they just don't want to play defense.
As you say, Not a pretty picture.
What might be even more alarming, to date RPI has allowed a staggering 96 goals against. So, assuming the usual Mayor's Cup run and gun dumpster fire, RPI may well hit triple-digit goals against, with 10 league games left to play.... Let that sink in a minute.
What might be even more alarming, to date RPI has allowed a staggering 96 goals against. So, assuming the usual Mayor's Cup run and gun dumpster fire, RPI may well hit triple-digit goals against, with 10 league games left to play.... Let that sink in a minute.
Sieve Sieve
RPI GAA is over 4 a game.
Speaking of recruiting, let's not forget it was not just Covid or the season with no fans. Shirley and McElroy left Smith hanging without a contract. It's almost unheard of to have a coach play out his contract. They usually get renewed with no more than one season left on them because it's impossible to recruit otherwise. Every team competing with us for a player undoubtedly told him that Smith was without a renewal and I'll bet it cost us dearly. In fact, they even had a recruiting summer after his contract expired before they announced he was returning - and that's just a year and a half ago. I'd imagine that it takes quite a while to restore the pipeline. That defense won't last forever and it might not get him more time if things don't improve dramatically in the next month, but it's most definitely a factor in the roster we have and the committed talent. Shirley and company couldn't have torpedoed this program any more if they tried. In fact, maybe they did.
Yes I'm aware that he's in his second year in the USHL (points leader in division/2nd in the league after a mid-pack finish last year) and that it's the #1 junior league for top college teams. I'm also aware that most of the better players are committed before they even get there so, hopefully, he's developing connections that extend to lower levels too. We've identified and gotten pre-USHL "commitments" from a number of players that went on to successful college careers (Fontaine, MacDonald, Sarlo, etc.), but getting them to Troy has been an issue. Hopefully Kirk would do better at that although factors like reputation, exposure, competition, facilities and now NIL money also come into play. But it can't be denied that he's never recruited at the college level and he's just now establishing himself in juniors. His 7 years as an ECHL coach counts for very little in the college game. Hell, Chuck Weber had a longer and even more successful run as an ECHL and AHL coach and most here seem to think that counts for nothing. It's also not that common to go directly from a regular USHL team to college head coach (most become assistants at big programs). Even an obvious exception, Jim Montgomery, spent three years in Dubuque (after 4 years as assistant here with Seth) and won two USHL championships before advancing to a top position in a college program. It doesn't mean Kirk couldn't be an exception too but they'd better be willing to ante up for a strong staff (with wider recruiting ties and experience than Kirk) for him to have a legitimate chance at making it happen.
Comparing Chuck Weber to Kirk Macdonald is like comparing me to Wayne Gretzky because we both used Titan sticks...Please !
Comparing Chuck Weber to Kirk Macdonald is like comparing me to Wayne Gretzky because we both used Titan sticks...Please !
This is a ridiculous, disrespectful, and flat out inaccurate comparison for no reason.
Chuck Weber has won MULTIPLE pro championships as a head coach and as an assistant, 3 total (2 as head coach).
In fact, he had more success than Kirk at the ECHL level as a head coach with his 2 championships with Cincinnati. Kirk is great, but let's stop acting like he's god himself please. Our top assistant had more success than him in the professional ranks.
Comparing Chuck Weber to Kirk Macdonald is like comparing me to Wayne Gretzky because we both used Titan sticks...Please !
In your race to demean my comment you completely missed the point. Minor league pro accomplishments (where, by objective measure Chuck Weber has, in fact, achieved a higher level than Kirk and won multiple championships at the only level Kirk attained) mean little when evaluating a potential college coach. There's less teaching and no recruiting (of the college style anyway), which are critical to college success. So we are judging Kirk's skills based on one modestly successful (middle of the pack) year in junior and a second that could be quite successful but still has quite a distance to go. His team is currently #2, 10 points behind the league leader. That's very good, but a small sample size. In the process we are hoping he's making contacts that would be useful in recruiting because he's got virtually no experience in it. In fact, the one player Dubuque signed to a tender (the closest the USHL has to an open process for top recruits) skipped off to major junior - causing them to be the only team that gave up it's #1 pick, the price of using the tender, for nothing.
This is a ridiculous, disrespectful, and flat out inaccurate comparison for no reason.
Chuck Weber has won MULTIPLE pro championships as a head coach and as an assistant, 3 total (2 as head coach).
In fact, he had more success than Kirk at the ECHL level as a head coach with his 2 championships with Cincinnati. Kirk is great, but let's stop acting like he's god himself please. Our top assistant had more success than him in the professional ranks.
Why do alum(s) disrespect Kirk? You must be well aware that most programs turn to former alum to coach their teams. How bout we do this and listen to you and others who are advocating keeping around a coach entering the season with .384 winning percentage at RPI overall and .326 for this year?! RPI whiffed on Barr, let's not whiff again.
What might be even more alarming, to date RPI has allowed a staggering 96 goals against. So, assuming the usual Mayor's Cup run and gun dumpster fire, RPI may well hit triple-digit goals against, with 10 league games left to play.... Let that sink in a minute.
Mind numbing...wow. Please say hello to your bro for me.
Big shocker, the anti-Smith crowd on the threat continues to debate in bad faith, making no effort to respond to an actual point and just spinning to fit a narrative. You’re comparing Kirk Macdonald to Wayne Gretzky?? You all have created this narrative to right a wrong from 7 years ago when Barr was not hired. Patrick Ewing and Chris Mullin both failed miserably as coaches at their BB alma maters. That is just fundamentally untrue that most programs turn to alums to turn the ship around. Being an alumni does not qualify someone for being a successful head coach. Sometimes it helps, but is not a qualification. And if he were not an alumni, no one would be talking about it, because he does not have the resume. Also as was pointed out earlier on, a firing of Smith is not imminent whether we want it or not, based on all the evidence that has been said on here. It is an interesting idea that could be explored in a few years but for now that’s all it is
Why do alum(s) disrespect Kirk? You must be well aware that most programs turn to former alum to coach their teams. How bout we do this and listen to you and others who are advocating keeping around a coach entering the season with .384 winning percentage at RPI overall and .326 for this year?! RPI whiffed on Barr, let's not whiff again.
Literally where did he disrespect Kirk? He explicitly said Kirk is great. He asked why we are making Kirk a god, because the last 4 pages and 2 days of this thread are about him. Have a debate without twisting words for a narrative
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