RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Given the current state of affairs in college athletics-I am not sure anyone can predict what will happen to any conference in the future.

At least the NCAA allows teams to organize in different conferences for hockey than they do for other sports!

What a shame that the nation's premier college basketball conference is riven asunder by concerns over football revenue.

 

[Jasma]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Finishing in the top half of the ECAC or making their conference tournament has been a problem for RPI for a decade and I don't see anyone here calling for them to move to Atlantic Hockey. If there are people that don't believe RPI should move the best league in the East if not the country, given the opportunity, then I have to wonder what your motivation is in cheering for RPI hockey. This is an absolute no brainer IMO. Any ECAC teams that RPI has a rival with or draw any fans to the fieldhouse could be scheduled in non-league play. I'm guessing that a home schedule with BU,BC,Maine,UNH,UVM,UNH,ND with Cornell, Clarkson & Union mixed in would be very attractive to local fans and probably wouldn't hurt in New Englamd recruiting where RPI has become almost non-existent.

You make some good points. It all hinges on being competitive, however. Everyone in RPI Hockey circles is waiting desperately for another ECAC title, but just being competitive and making the top four most years and the NCAA every few years would be fine with most fans. If they can't be competitive every year and be among the top teams in the league most of the time, it won't matter, the crowds will remain around 3,000, except for Clarkson and Cornell.

If they move to HE with the way things are now, they will find it difficult to compete with the top five teams. The high-profile programs you mentioned will certainly put butts in the seats for the first couple of years, but if this program can't outrecruit and outplay Union, Colgate and Quinnipiac in the ECAC, how can they ever compete with the big boys in HE? You have to crawl before you can walk.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

If they move to HE with the way things are now, they will find it difficult to compete with the top five teams. The high-profile programs you mentioned will certainly put butts in the seats for the first couple of years, but if this program can't outrecruit and outplay Union, Colgate and Quinnipiac in the ECAC, how can they ever compete with the big boys in HE? You have to crawl before you can walk.

IMHo, we have outrecruited those schools in recent years. Outplay is a separate problem.

 

[johnk]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

OK, now take out BC and BU and what do you have?
The TV contract is nice, and the addition of Notre Dame might help. But that MIGHT make it a three team league, or maybe not. Again, this is just an opinion.
If RPI does go to Hockey East, I will still be an Engineer Hockey Fan. That will never change.

Take out BU and BC and in the last 10 years not counting Notre Dame, Hockey East has had a represenative in the Frozen Four at least a half dozen times. Without looking in up, Maine, UNH have multiple visits including several championship games and I believe UVM as currently as the last 4 years. Could you tell me how the ECAC has fared? Let me save you the time. Cornell once in the same time period.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

We seem to be getting back into the argument of whether we should stay in the ECAC or move to HE. No question HE is the conference with the more nationally prominent teams and by far the stronger conference. The question though to ask-is the ECAC going to remain a stable conference or will it be suddenly in jeopardy of severe change by something like the sudden loss of the Ivies to their own conference? I am not happy being in the lower tier of either conference which seems to be where would be in either case right now. Personally I could care less which conference we are in as long as the conference is viable for the long term and we can improve our standing so that we are competing for the conference championship every year. Given the current state of affairs in college athletics-I am not sure anyone can predict what will happen to any conference in the future.

HE would be a big plus for recruiting in NE. The team would get more media coverage. More games in Boston and fewer in Canton/Potsdam/New Haven.

I've said it many times and will say it again. HE needs to go to 2 divisions and add RPI, Union, SLU, Clarkson and Colgate who would join ND, UVM and UMASS in HEW while everyone else is in HEE. That would be a nice 22 game schedule (2 in division and 1 out). Now what to do about Q... WCHA!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

I've said it many times and will say it again. HE needs to go to 2 divisions and add RPI, Union, SLU, Clarkson and Colgate who would join ND, UVM and UMASS in HEW while everyone else is in HEE. That would be a nice 22 game schedule (2 in division and 1 out). Now what to do about Q... WCHA!

And how would this be any different with our discussions over haves and have-nots?

 

[burgie12]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

OK, now take out BC and BU and what do you have?

They'd still have the TV contract. They still placed five more teams in the Frozen Four since the ECAC's most recent representative. They still have seven appearances in the national championship game since Colgate played in 1990 (including Maine vs UNH in 1999 and Maine vs BU in 1995). They still have two national championships since the ECAC's most recent one. HEA still has a 61-44-11 record over the ECAC in the past five years.

Hockey East is a better hockey conference than the ECAC.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

And how would this be any different with our discussions over haves and have-nots?

Maybe I'm oversimplifying but it seems to me that there was once this league call the ECAC which had an East and a West division. There also was this "Ivy" Division too but that's another story. I believe the champion in the final year of that league was some little engineering school in NY. No one back then talked about how we couldn't compete with the big boys.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Maybe I'm oversimplifying but it seems to me that there was once this league call the ECAC which had an East and a West division. There also was this "Ivy" Division too but that's another story. I believe the champion in the final year of that league was some little engineering school in NY. No one back then talked about how we couldn't compete with the big boys.

That was also more than a quarter-century ago. Times change.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

That was also more than a quarter-century ago. Times change.

That's true but the fact is that BC and BU are private schools and none of the state universities in NE are athletic monsters like Michigan, Penn State, Minnesota and Wisconsin. It's a good fit in my opinion.

 

[hockeymascot]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

That was also more than a quarter-century ago. Times change.

You're right. It is my opinion that the ECAC has not grown with the times. For example, the league still only plays 22 league games where most other leagues have expanded the number of league games they play in a season. This is because the Ivies can only play 29 games in a season which prevents increasing the number of league games, and they want to be able to play 7 non-league games.

That means the non-ivies have to schedule 12 or more non-league games in any one season to fill their schedule......and most of the big boys aren't travelling!

 

[bothman]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

The high-profile programs you mentioned will certainly put butts in the seats for the first couple of years, but if this program can't outrecruit and outplay Union, Colgate and Quinnipiac in the ECAC, how can they ever compete with the big boys in HE? You have to crawl before you can walk.

Don't you think Hockey East would augment RPI's recruiting platform?

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

That's true but the fact is that BC and BU are private schools and none of the state universities in NE are athletic monsters like Michigan, Penn State, Minnesota and Wisconsin. It's a good fit in my opinion.

BU and NU are the only private schools in the HE. BC, MC, and PC are church sponsored. (That's what the C stands for. )

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

You're right. It is my opinion that the ECAC has not grown with the times. For example, the league still only plays 22 league games where most other leagues have expanded the number of league games they play in a season. This is because the Ivies can only play 29 games in a season which prevents increasing the number of league games, and they want to be able to play 7 non-league games.

That means the non-ivies have to schedule 12 or more non-league games in any one season to fill their schedule......and most of the big boys aren't travelling!

If and when the HE expands to 12 achools, it will probably also have a 22-game schedule.

 

[burgie12]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

You're right. It is my opinion that the ECAC has not grown with the times. For example, the league still only plays 22 league games where most other leagues have expanded the number of league games they play in a season. This is because the Ivies can only play 29 games in a season which prevents increasing the number of league games, and they want to be able to play 7 non-league games.

That means the non-ivies have to schedule 12 or more non-league games in any one season to fill their schedule......and most of the big boys aren't travelling!

When the B1G starts in 2013, they will only play 20 league games. Clearly, they're not growing with the times.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

When the B1G starts in 2013, they will only play 20 league games. Clearly, they're not growing with the times.

Yeah, well, there's also only six teams in that conference.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

When HE goes to 11, wouldn't they be playing 20 league games? It wouldn't make much sense (at least to me) to play 30, but I don't know if they'd go IMBA.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

BU and NU are the only private schools in the HE. BC, MC, and PC are church sponsored. (That's what the C stands for. )

I think you mean that BU and NU are the only secular private schools in the HE.

BC, MC and PC are affiliated with different religious orders that fall under the umbrella of the Catholic Church; however the Church itself does not "sponsor" any one of those three schools. Jesuits run BC, Dominicans (not from the Caribbean but an order of monks) run PC, and Augustinians run MC. All three are private schools in the sense that they are not state-run schools.


Would you say that Brandeis is not a private school? that it is a "synagogue-sponsored" school??

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

They'd still have the TV contract. They still placed five more teams in the Frozen Four since the ECAC's most recent representative. They still have seven appearances in the national championship game since Colgate played in 1990 (including Maine vs UNH in 1999 and Maine vs BU in 1995). They still have two national championships since the ECAC's most recent one. HEA still has a 61-44-11 record over the ECAC in the past five years.

Hockey East is a better hockey conference than the ECAC.

OK I'm convinced, HE is a better conference. We get a TV contract, more exposure, and maybe a foot into recruiting in New England. How does that make us more competitive?
Our recruiting over the last 4/5 years has been as highly ranked. We have been on TV at least twice a year in the last two years. And we are still struggling to get out of the ECAC cellar. Where does that put us in HE?
I am an RPI fan, and I will be one for life. I would like to see a title of any kind in my lifetime. I am not sure I will see that in Hockey East.
One thing I will say, the ECACH will need to remain at least as is. If for whatever reason it breaks up, HE would be the conference of choice.
No matter what,

LETS GO RED!!!!!

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Would you say that Brandeis is not a private school? that it is a "synagogue-sponsored" school??

Yep.