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RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

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Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Could you do us all a favor and lay off this shtick? It got old weeks ago. Every time it gets brought up again it sparks ANOTHER week of back and forth *****fest from everyone on the board.

Amen. The marvelous insight from fans who know hockey and attend the games is getting drowned out by childish sniping. Who cares about Ken Schott?
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Is it we have to play 10 games or 10 teams for it to count?

IIRC, both teams must have played 10 games vs TUCs for it to count for that comparison. Because we haven't played 10 yet, it doesn't count even against schools that have played 10 games vs TUCs.

Edit: Sioux Sports' version of PWR makes that clear. For example http://siouxsports.com/hockey/rankings/pwrdetails.php?teamid=0. Note that although UND has played 15 games vs. TUCs, it only counts in three cases.
 
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Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

IIRC, both teams must have played 10 games vs TUCs for it to count for that comparison. Because we haven't played 10 yet, it doesn't count even against schools that have played 10 games vs TUCs.

OK. I'm starting to get the hang of these systems, so hopefully I'll have less stupid questions this year.
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

OK. I'm starting to get the hang of these systems, so hopefully I'll have less stupid questions this year.

It's been so many years since it has mattered for RPI that I have not really been paying complete attention. I am pretty sure that the 10-game requirement for TUCs to count was introduced since the last time that it was meaningful for RPI. Hopefully, it will stay meaningful as the season progresses. A victory vs. BU would really help. Also, there are currently 6 ECAC schools that are TUCs. It would be good for us and the league if it could stay that way.
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

It's been so many years since it has mattered for RPI that I have not really been paying complete attention. I am pretty sure that the 10-game requirement for TUCs to count was introduced since the last time that it was meaningful for RPI. Hopefully, it will stay meaningful as the season progresses. A victory vs. BU would really help. Also, there are currently 6 ECAC schools that are TUCs. It would be good for us and the league if it could stay that way.

You're absolutely correct about this. I believe there are also 5 in Hockey East, and the rest are the western leagues (AHA has 0, and Alabama-Huntsville isn't even close).
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

You're absolutely correct about this. I believe there are also 5 in Hockey East, and the rest are the western leagues (AHA has 0, and Alabama-Huntsville isn't even close).

Yes, 5 HEA schools. That means both the ECAC and the HEA have exactly half their members as TUCs. It could stay that way until Harvard has its annual debacle in the Beanpot. ;)
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

OK. I'm starting to get the hang of these systems, so hopefully I'll have less stupid questions this year.

We had a full discussion on the PWR a few weeks ago at WaP, where we described why they are still useless as anything but a mirror of the RPI. At this point, being a TUC or being ranked among the teams that would be in the national tournament is merely an indication that there's a shot at being relevant down the stretch. It's not as meaningless as it was in, say, October, but it's still a pretty fluid situation. There's nothing to read into the Engineers' position at this time.

Never fear. If/when the time becomes right, we will have a full primer and full discussion on the PWR at WaP that will turn into a weekly feature. That will not be until the middle of January at the earliest, but a win against BU would indeed make such discussions quite likely.

The goal should be to get into a position where an at-large bid would be in the bag or almost in the bag with a trip to Atlantic City, regardless of what happens there.
 
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Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

We had a full discussion on the PWR a few weeks ago at WaP, where we described why they are still useless as anything but a mirror of the RPI. At this point, being a TUC or being ranked among the teams that would be in the national tournament is merely an indication that there's a shot at being relevant down the stretch. It's not as meaningless as it was in, say, October, but it's still a pretty fluid situation. There's nothing to read into the Engineers' position at this time.

Never fear. If/when the time becomes right, we will have a full primer and full discussion on the PWR at WaP that will turn into a weekly feature. That will not be until the middle of January at the earliest, but a win against BU would indeed make such discussions quite likely.

The goal should be to get into a position where an at-large bid would be in the bag or almost in the bag with a trip to Atlantic City, regardless of what happens there.

Tom,

I did not mean to imply, and I don't think that FD08 meant to imply either, that anything was really meaningful to this point. That doesn't mean, however, that RPI is not heading in the right direction, and it doesn't mean that it can't be a topic of conversation here. We have discussed much more frivolous and meaningless topics here, and I have participated in them.

FD08 brought out the fact that the 'Tute is 2-3-2 vs. TUCs. As stated that doesn't count yet, but a .429 vs. TUCs won't hurt us if we can stay there after playing BU, Clarkson, and Dartmouth, the next three current TUCs which we face (which will bring us to 10).

JMHO.
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Tom,

I did not mean to imply, and I don't think that FD08 meant to imply either, that anything was really meaningful to this point. That doesn't mean, however, that RPI is not heading in the right direction, and it doesn't mean that it can't be a topic of conversation here. We have discussed much more frivolous and meaningless topics here, and I have participated in them.

FD08 brought out the fact that the 'Tute is 2-3-2 vs. TUCs. As stated that doesn't count yet, but a .429 vs. TUCs won't hurt us if we can stay there after playing BU, Clarkson, and Dartmouth, the next three current TUCs which we face (which will bring us to 10).

JMHO.
If we are <500 after those 3 games I'll be disappointed.
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

That doesn't mean, however, that RPI is not heading in the right direction, and it doesn't mean that it can't be a topic of conversation here.

I said or implied nothing of the sort. Feel free to discuss anything you like. The much maligned media and coaches polls are better indicators at this point in the season of which teams are contenders.

FD08 brought out the fact that the 'Tute is 2-3-2 vs. TUCs. As stated that doesn't count yet, but a .429 vs. TUCs won't hurt us if we can stay there after playing BU, Clarkson, and Dartmouth, the next three current TUCs which we face (which will bring us to 10).

The problem with this line of reasoning is the TUC cliff - who is a TUC and who isn't is always changing. When I last wrote on the PWR, Niagara was a TUC. They have since lost to UConn and Army and are down to 30th in RPI. Brown was also recently a TUC but are currently 28th. Say those two teams put a few wins together and get back into the top 25 of RPI, and CC (18th) loses a few games and drops out. RPI's record against TUCs becomes 4-2-1 (before the BU game) and they haven't done anything different. Thus, at this point in the season, it's "just win," and there's not much else to worry about right now. By mid-January, we will know which teams are going to be TUCs, which teams are potential TUCs, and which teams are not going to be TUCs. At this point, we can probably safely say that the Top 7 or so in RPI will be TUCs. We can safely say that anyone under 50th or so will not be TUCs. With everyone else, there's enough fluidity in the RPI to make everyone else fall into the middle category. As time goes by, the middle category gets smaller where the "in or out" category gets bigger.

Since I'm not writing on PWR at WaP until the end of the month at the earliest, here's what we want to see happen going forward.

1) Beating BU would give the Engineers a record of 1-0-1 against Hockey East teams. That's a good start for COp, but every Hockey East team has ECAC teams on their schedules as well, so it's important to play well in conference (as well as a reason to root for the ECAC out of conference)
2) Beating UAH twice would give the Engineers a record of 3-0-0 in COp against a handful of CCHA teams to start out with, since every CCHA team plays BGSU and many of them face UAH this year. That's a bit bigger, since there are usually much fewer COps in the western leagues.

From there, the schedule becomes insular and it's a matter of doing well in conference and specifically beating the teams that are likely to be TUCs. That makes Freakout an important game regardless, and it makes the night before Freakout an important game too - might as well start rooting for Brown, even within the conference. In that sense, losing to Colgate, while it would mean an RPI hit, wouldn't be devastating in the TUC category.

The way the PWR is set up, it would almost be advantageous to not reach the 10 game mark. Look at Bemidji State last year. But I doubt that's a possibility - the schedule is too strong for that to happen. There will, in all likelihood, be 10 TUC games on the schedule before all is said and done. I expect Yale, Union, and Dartmouth to be TUCs at the end of the year, and that's 7 games right there, plus I'm sure the Engineers will face one of those teams at some point in the playoffs. Throw in BU, who's probably going to be a TUC unless they crash and burn.

Trust me on this, folks. I have a few years of experience in micro-bracketology - analyzing a single team's PWR needs. It's a lot harder than macro-bracketology - analyzing the whole system. With luck, we'll be debuting "Engineer Bracketology," a weekly micro-bracketology exercise, on January 18th. But the team has some work to do first.
 
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Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

The goal should be/is to win the league and or the tourney. Period.

This is somewhat short-sighted. That is the overriding goal, of course, but it has nothing to do with getting into the national tournament, which is the discussion at hand. It is always better to be playing from a position of strength - having the ability to advance without winning the tournament - than being desperate. We could lose every game from now until the end of February and still make the NCAAs with a tournament title. Winning the ECAC tournament gives the Engineers the best chance of not only advancing but having a solid seeding in the national tournament, but it is better to know in advance what the odds are of being able to do without it. Unless you prefer doing things without margin for error.
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Makes me think that we won't see him next season. :(

All right let's just relax here.

Columbus has Steve Mason locked up long term as their "starter" in goal. Mathieu Garon is the backup/sometimes starter now and his deal ends after this year. If he doesn't stay on in Columbus, they'll get another NHL-experienced goalie to backup/push Mason.

In their system, Gustaf Wesslau is a Swedish project goalie. He's 25 and played in Sweden's elite league for years and is hoping to make his mark in North America. His backup is David LeNeveu another one of Cornell's "OMG BEST GOALIE EVAR!!!1" that failed to amount to much as a professional.

Their two other prospect goalies are very young at 19 years-old. One, Martin Ouellette, is currently at the University of Maine. Mathieu Corbeil-Theriault is playing for the Halifax Mooseheads in the CHL.

York is certainly the prospect that's closest to making the pros but depending on what the organization does after the season regarding Mason's backup and how Wesslau does in the AHL could depend on whether or not Allen gets the call. Then again, Columbus works in weird ways and might see him playing 30+ games for RPI to be enough of a workload before getting him to the AHL. They're in no hurry to get him into the NHL since Mason's deal is signed for so long and getting him a capable NHL-caliber backup is almost necessary since Mason is still young and prone to being ineffective. It also doesn't help that Columbus' defense is horrid.

I don't think Columbus will push to sign him, but if York has an outstanding season, like Hobey-nominated worthy, all bets are off.
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Tom,
Thanks for your illuminating post on all things bracketology. Much appreciated for you taking the time. WaP is really the one source for all things RPI hockey and you should be commended for it. At some point I hope I get the opportunity to meet you and shake your hand to say thanks for all you do.
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Last time I checked, winning the league tourney is an auto bid - pretty sure that is everything to do with topic at hand. I choose to not participate in endless woulda-coulda-shoulda scenarios in the first week of December. I understand others don't share this view.:D

The idea is that playing well enough now makes it so a fluke loss in a single-elimination conference tournament doesn't decide whether we make the dance. Imagine York eats some tainted $3.99 dinner buffet special in AC the night before the championship game and ends up hugging the porcelain throne instead of the goalpost. Oops, now we lost and we're out of the tourney because we didn't play well enough during the regular season to get in on an at-large bid.
 
Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

The idea is that playing well enough now makes it so a fluke loss in a single-elimination conference tournament doesn't decide whether we make the dance. Imagine York eats some tainted $3.99 dinner buffet special in AC the night before the championship game and ends up hugging the porcelain throne instead of the goalpost. Oops, now we lost and we're out of the tourney because we didn't play well enough during the regular season to get in on an at-large bid.
Look, I get it. I'm not a numbers guy, but understand others are. I just choose to not focus on endless permutations this early in the season. Its my problem. :D
 
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