Robert Morris dropping men's and women's hockey.

[njmav1]

Yes, that might be true, but most of the D-I hockey conferences are hockey only organizations. So having your hockey team(s) in one conference and all your other sports in another conference is actually the norm for D-I.

This makes no difference. What AMC posted makes a lot of sense. While they were a decent hockey program for a while in Atlantic Hockey, it's nothing compared being a decent basketball program in the Horizon League.

 

[rpi82]

Colgate’s were $30,845,586 and Holy Cross’ were $33,800,312.
Sean

Wow! How do two schools with enrollments of 3,000 or less and limited athletic revenue opportunities (e.g. $80 for season tickets at the 50 yard line) justify spending more than $10K per student on inter-collegiate athletics? Both schools have a fair portion of wealthy alumni so I have to believe someone is writing massive checks.

 

[AMC]

Yes, that might be true, but most of the D-I hockey conferences are hockey only organizations. So having your hockey team(s) in one conference and all your other sports in another conference is actually the norm for D-I.

That’s not my point. The point is that RMU was in a basketball conference that called for one level of expenditure, but has moved to a new conference that calls for a higher level of expenditure. That money has to come from somewhere.

 

[LtPowers]

But RMU didn't say anything about money being an issue.

Here's an extremely concerning report from DK Pittsburgh Sports. Something fishy is going on, fishy enough that Steelers GM Kevin Colbert chose to resign from the RMU Board of Trustees.

https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2021...d-steelers-kevin-colbert-resigned-board-jp-dk

The decision was made, per our sources, entirely by Morgan O'Brien, the board's chairman, and Chris Howard, the school president. Those two made the call unilaterally. No prior information was disseminated, and no consensus of any kind was achieved at the time or, for that matter, since.

Powers &8^]​

 

[AMC]

But RMU didn't say anything about money being an issue.

Here's an extremely concerning report from DK Pittsburgh Sports. Something fishy is going on, fishy enough that Steelers GM Kevin Colbert chose to resign from the RMU Board of Trustees.

https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2021...d-steelers-kevin-colbert-resigned-board-jp-dk

Powers &8^]​

Well, if they said it was about money it would be saying one of two things:

1. We agreed to join a more expensive league and didn't realize we couldn't pay for it. OR

2. We agreed to join a more expensive league and this has been the plan for over a year, we just kept our mouths shut.

Neither reflect well.

 

[Sean Pickett]

I think the Horizon League piece is a big part of it. RMU left the NEC for the Horizon. They are going to have to spend a heck of a lot more money on basketball to keep up with the new Joneses. They are leaving a league mostly made up of similarly sized private schools for a league of bigger public schools. Some of the new conference mates really care about basketball. I wouldn't be shocked if there was some sort of "we'll admit you, but you need to up your basketball budget" type conversation. Oh, and hey, how about that, there's $3M lying over there in a sport that no one else in the new conference plays.

This makes no difference. What AMC posted makes a lot of sense. While they were a decent hockey program for a while in Atlantic Hockey, it's nothing compared being a decent basketball program in the Horizon League.

That’s not my point. The point is that RMU was in a basketball conference that called for one level of expenditure, but has moved to a new conference that calls for a higher level of expenditure. That money has to come from somewhere.

I was unaware that RMU had just joined the Horizon League. This information certainly helps clarify why the school built the new $50 million basketball arena. I checked the 2020 EADAs of all 12 Horizon League schools and RMU's basketball expenses are not out of line with the other schools. The men's team expenses are $2,220,578, which is 8th out of 12 teams and just below the $2,322,108 average; the women's team expenses are $1,481,808, which is 3rd out of 12 teams and above the $1,387,903 average. So, there doesn't appear to be a case of needing to spend more on basketball to match the other Horizon League schools. However, as RMU would have been 2nd in men's expenses in the NEC it is possible that they want to increase expenses to see if that allows them to better compete in the Horizon League.

Sean

 

[Sean Pickett]

Well, if they said it was about money it would be saying one of two things:

1. We agreed to join a more expensive league and didn't realize we couldn't pay for it. OR

2. We agreed to join a more expensive league and this has been the plan for over a year, we just kept our mouths shut.

Neither reflect well.

A few more 2020 EADA facts:
Current NEC schools total expenses ranged from $27,797,973 to $8,804,570 (RMU would have been 5th) with an average of $17,753,419. Sport teams sponsored ranged from 28 to 12 (RMU was second lowest at 14), with the median 18. Current Horizon League schools total expenses ranged from from RMU's $17,753,419 to $9,424,557 with an average of $13,635,343. Sport teams sponsored ranged from 17 to 11, with the median 14.

So, RMU actually moved from a league that sponsors more sports (20 by financial count, 24 by sport count) and was more costly overall to a league that sponsors fewer sports (15 by financial count, 19 by sport count) and is less costly overall, but focuses more on men's basketball. The move also made RMU have to find leagues for affiliate membership for football and men's and women's lacrosse.

Sean

 

[AMC]

A few more 2020 EADA facts:
Current NEC schools total expenses ranged from $27,797,973 to $8,804,570 (RMU would have been 5th) with an average of $17,753,419. Sport teams sponsored ranged from 28 to 12 (RMU was second lowest at 14), with the median 18. Current Horizon League schools total expenses ranged from from RMU's $17,753,419 to $9,424,557 with an average of $13,635,343. Sport teams sponsored ranged from 17 to 11, with the median 14.

So, RMU actually moved from a league that sponsors more sports (20 by financial count, 24 by sport count) and was more costly overall to a league that sponsors fewer sports (15 by financial count, 19 by sport count) and is less costly overall, but focuses more on men's basketball. The move also made RMU have to find leagues for affiliate membership for football and men's and women's lacrosse.

Sean

Yeah, the Horizon is (Youngstown State football aside) pretty much a basketball only conference. I imagine RMU is going to have to spend more on hoops to compete.

 

[Sean Pickett]

This was posted in the women's forum:

https://triblive.com/sports/how-stee...-want-to-help/

I watched the prepared statement the president gave... says 5 to 30 million in capital needed (some people heard 13) and then later referenced a 10 to 25 million operations budget endowment need.

It appears the rink needs a lot of work and RMU doesn't have the money, especially after building a new $50 million basketball arena. I guess RMU decided to follow the same path as fellow Horizon League member UIC.

Sean

 

[Sean Pickett]

RMU president Howard doubled down on dropping hockey, blaming it on lack of revenue, among other reasons. One report quoted him calling hockey the school’s “most expensive D-I sport,” and blaming $1 million in expenditures (total for both teams) per season, the location and needs for upgrades at the Island Sports Center, limited ticket sales and donations and an inability to offset those costs through conference payouts and television revenues. Another report quoted him stating “Ice hockey has been our most expensive D-I sport, in part due to the low ticket sales and limited donations, as well as having no access to things like guaranteed game opportunities, conference revenue or television contract payout,” and “Hockey’s direct expenses alone are already more than $1 million annually. That’s a margin, that’s the bottom line we end up paying out.” Of course, if the school had put ice making equipment in the new UPMC events Center then they could have had a state of the art arena on campus, but...

As for the cost of running the programs, on RMU's 2020 EADA report they reported total expenses for men's hockey at $1,448,957; women's hockey at $1,346,001; men's basketball at $2,220,578; women's basketball at $1,481,808; and football at $3,181,022. For operating expenses RMU reported men's hockey at $208,103; women's hockey at $174,893; men's basketball at $384,495; women's basketball at $238,685; and football at $179,179. So, I'm not sure what he used to come up with the combined $1 million number.

As for the low ticket sales, again, if they had been able to play at the UPMC Events Center it likely would have raised ticket revenue and quite possibly donations. As for guaranteed game opportunities, again I'm not sure, but I think he is referring to guarantees to play at other schools. Of course hockey does have some, but it is much less than for football and basketball and the same goes for conference revenue and television contracts. It seems he is just using those as excuses to cover his butt.

By the way, I've requested the 2020 NCAA reports from the 10 public Horizon League schools to see how much, if anything, the schools are getting in the way of ticket sales, donations, guaranteed game opportunities, conference revenue and television contract payouts. So fat IW-Milwaukee has already replied and I found a 2019 report for IUPUI online. Neither reported any media payouts and IWM reported just $15,000 for conference payouts for basketball while UIPUI reported $0, although both reported overall conference payouts of $109,157 (IWM) and $96,693 (IUPUI).

In the end it appears to come back to the current ice rink needing a lot of work and the school's refusal to put ice making equipment into the UPMC Events Center. Hell, one of the reports I linked to mentions the school re-adding men's track and field to stay at the NCAA required minimum number of sports, so it appears that this was planned and is not as sudden as it originally seemed.

Sean

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Unless the players were eating noodles, bread, water and sleeping on cots in the gym on every road trip, I find it hard to believe they operated TWO D-I hockey teams for a combined $380,000. Even if that is COST after revenue is deduced from expenses, I still don't buy it. Maybe if the cost of the rink operations is buried somewhere where else in the school's budget as a "multi-purpose" facility and they billed all those costs to roller hockey players... then maaaaaybe. If they truly cut two D-I hockey programs over a cost of less than $400k, then RMU's admins are truly gutless. They could have raised that in a month. At the very least they could have raised $200k and cut their budget by 50%.

Heck, cash strapped UAH could have loaned them $200k in exchange for an affirmative vote on AH membership.

 

[rpi82]

It's hardly as simple as "they could have put ice making equipment into their new arena." A multi-use building has a completely different footprint and cost structure than one designed solely for a single sport. Looking at pictures, it's an intimate 4,000 seat building with seats very close to the basketball court (roughly 100 x 50 feet) on all sides. Designing for multiple sports means starting with hockey's 200x85 that pushes the seats much farther back. Add extra and bigger locker rooms, training space, equipment space, icemaking equipment rooms, etc. and it's a much larger and more expensive building - often with poorer sightlines for both sports. Then you have competition for use and conversion costs, which is why most schools have separate buildings and some (e.g. QU, HC) have even built a single complex combining separate arenas for each around a common lobby. Alternatively, a school could combine a common arena for games with separate practice facilities. Any way you look at it, playing both BB and hockey means significantly greater facilities costs.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Unless the players were eating noodles, bread, water and sleeping on cots in the gym on every road trip, I find it hard to believe they operated TWO D-I hockey teams for a combined $380,000. Even if that is COST after revenue is deduced from expenses, I still don't buy it. Maybe if the cost of the rink operations is buried somewhere where else in the school's budget as a "multi-purpose" facility and they billed all those costs to roller hockey players... then maaaaaybe. If they truly cut two D-I hockey programs over a cost of less than $400k, then RMU's admins are truly gutless. They could have raised that in a month. At the very least they could have raised $200k and cut their budget by 50%.

As I noted, the overall expenses for the two programs was about a combined $2.8 million. The combined $383 thousand operating expenses covers just the expenses an institution incurs attributable to home, away, and neutral? site intercollegiate athletic contests (commonly known as "game?day expenses"), for (A) Lodging, meals, transportation, uniforms, and equipment for coaches, team members, support staff (including, but not limited to team managers and trainers), and others; and (B) Officials. You can claim that it is not enough to cover those expenses, but that is what RMU reported.

For reference, RMU had the second lowest amount among men's teams for reported operating expenses, with Quinnipiac the lowest, reporting just $58,676. For women RMU did better, being fifth lowest, with Quinnipiac again the lowest at just $50,742.

Sean

 

[Sean Pickett]

It's hardly as simple as "they could have put ice making equipment into their new arena."

I apologize if I was not clear, I should have said they could have designed and built a multi-use arena with ice making capability. As for cost, Bentley Arena is said to have cost $45 million, so I think it would have been possible to do the same with the UPMC Events Center without undue additional costs.

Sean

 

[rpi82]

I apologize if I was not clear, I should have said they could have designed and built a multi-use arena with ice making capability. As for cost, Bentley Arena is said to have cost $45 million, so I think it would have been possible to do the same with the UPMC Events Center without undue additional costs.

Sean

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The difference between a dedicated arena and a multi-purpose arena is far more than just an ice plant. They have dramatically different form factors and cost structures. A multi-use facility requires far more square feet of usable space (back of the envelope calculation is 50%+ more with the associated cost) and they are also inherently less efficient for both sports, but particularly basketball. To my knowledge the Bentley Arena is not used for basketball, which makes sense because its seating arrangement would be among the worst small basketball arenas in the country (most of its 2,000 permanent seats beyond the baselines, many not even facing the court, and with low or contorted viewing angles). In addition, schools with multi-use facilities usually own or have access to separate practice facilities for at least one of basketball or hockey, which also bring with them capital and operational costs.

One other thing to note about the RMU Arena's price tag, it's a lot more than an arena. It appears to contain a complete meeting and conference center and basketball practice facility. It's obviously RMU's intention that it be used for far more than basketball.

 

[The Sicatoka]

https://triblive.com/sports/how-ste...-morris-hockey-and-the-penguins-want-to-help/

 

[wsummers]

An ethical President and Board would have either A) given the team one more year to play and attempt to raise X amount, or B) announce they were closing down the program in the early spring so players would have had an opportunity to move/transfer and coaches wouldn’t be recruiting and making commitments. Waiting until late May practically assures the current players are screwed for this coming season.

 

[The Sicatoka]

https://triblive.com/sports/tim-ben...-get-some-help-will-the-university-accept-it/

 

[LtPowers]

An ethical President and Board would have either A) given the team one more year to play and attempt to raise X amount, or B) announce they were closing down the program in the early spring so players would have had an opportunity to move/transfer and coaches wouldn’t be recruiting and making commitments. Waiting until late May practically assures the current players are screwed for this coming season.

Can you imagine dropping that announcement just before you host the Frozen Four?


Powers &8^]

 

[RMUColonials]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The difference between a dedicated arena and a multi-purpose arena is far more than just an ice plant. They have dramatically different form factors and cost structures. A multi-use facility requires far more square feet of usable space (back of the envelope calculation is 50%+ more with the associated cost) and they are also inherently less efficient for both sports, but particularly basketball. To my knowledge the Bentley Arena is not used for basketball, which makes sense because its seating arrangement would be among the worst small basketball arenas in the country (most of its 2,000 permanent seats beyond the baselines, many not even facing the court, and with low or contorted viewing angles). In addition, schools with multi-use facilities usually own or have access to separate practice facilities for at least one of basketball or hockey, which also bring with them capital and operational costs.

One other thing to note about the RMU Arena's price tag, it's a lot more than an arena. It appears to contain a complete meeting and conference center and basketball practice facility. It's obviously RMU's intention that it be used for far more than basketball.

The rumor (and I heard this from multiple people that worked in the athletic dept during that time) was that the biggest donor for the basketball arena requested it to be a basketball-only facility