>>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

[Downstate_RIT_Fan]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Big Ten is not happening, in fact that league can die for all I care. I see 3 possibilities.
2) Another ECAC-ish possibility. Ivy league schools form their own league, leaving the Non Ivy league schools to form a conference with RIT and maybe other select schools from the AHA

#2 presents a very interesting scenario. Imagine if the Ivies left the ECAC, that would leave six remaining teams in the ECAC (including four Liberty League schools who already travel to RIT regularly for other sports). That could open maybe as many as four slots with RIT and Holy Cross likely being the first two to move into the ECAC. Take RoMo and Mercyhurst along or Niagara and Canisius. That would leave Atlantic Hockey with seven remaining teams. Have Navy move their club hockey to D1 and Atlantic Hockey would move back to their original size of eight schools with all three service academies which would give Atlantic Hockey a feather to put in their cap on being the only league with all three service academies and an easier road for member schools if the league would still qualify for an auto-bid. Pure speculation but it will be interesting when the next shake up occurs and who it will involve...

I expect a split this weekend if Holy Cross wins on Friday, otherwise if RIT wins on Friday I expect a sweep.

 

[komey1]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Big Ten is not happening, in fact that league can die for all I care. I see 3 possibilities.

1) A mention earlier, ECAC. ND leave Hockey East, and a team from the ECAC replaced Notre Dame in Hockey East. RIT than has a slot.
2) Another ECAC-ish possibility. Ivy league schools form their own league, leaving the Non Ivy league schools to form a conference with RIT and maybe other select schools from the AHA
3) A merger between unhappy schools stuck in the WCHA and the western POD of the AHA. This is not brought up a lot, but I think it could be a great solution for some teams that had no choice after the Big Ten caused conference swapping madness and the better side of the AHA to form a better league...

I don't see the Ivy's breaking off unless Penn or Columbia add a team. The non-Ivy schools like being associated with the Ivys so they won't pull away. Plus it does make for easy scheduling.

I don't really see the third option being viable for RIT's future. Being the only non-scholarship team in a league makes it that much more difficult. This was looked at when the new WCHA was formed and RIT was not interested if I understand correctly. I don't think anything has changed.

 

[kwm4385]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Agreed. At the moment it seems the ECAC is the only other place RIT would theoretically fit both academically and athletically (no scholarships).

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Looks like more in the background upgrades, locker room and such. Nice to see someone step up with $250K. They need more money. Colleges always need more money than churches...

Colleges need money??? Seriously? Ever hear of endowments? Ever hear of 40k - 60k+ per year in tuition costs at most private schools?
If anyone needs money, it certainly isn't colleges.
Why you dragged churches into your assertion is not clear, but I'm going to steer clear of that debate.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

With a better conference comes better recruits, more national attention, and better home attendance against more recognizable opponents....

More Losses for quite some time...

While it may be harder to get to the NCAA tourney via autobid, this could be offset in part by higher strength of schedule for getting an at large bid.

Increased strength of schedule only helps get at-large bids if you win. It would realistically be a while before that would happen regularly (see Union, UNO, Lowell, Merrimack).

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

and better home attendance against more recognizable opponents.

This is where ECAC doesn't help much. They have many storied hockey programs, but not so much on the "recognizable" scale when it comes to the casual fan (i.e. not us college hockey nuts that are already at the games).

 

[kwm4385]

More Losses for quite some time...

Possible, but not nessecarily. Look at UConn's move to Hockey East. Despite having middling success in Atlantic Hockey, they're for the most part holding their own against some of the best teams. (especially last year) not to mention their attendance has gone up 10 fold.

As for recognizable opponents, I agree the ECAC might not have much in regard to "athletic powerhouses", but it's hard to deny more people would be interested in a game against Harvard or RPI than Robert Morris or AIC.

In my opinion, I think the biggest hurdle for us in getting the best recruits besides the lack of scholarships is the stigma against Atlantic Hockey. Sure, the league might improve over time, but there will still be some dead weight schools holding it back. It's a gamble whether we stay or try our luck in another conference.

 

[lmg6841]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

More Losses for quite some time...


Increased strength of schedule only helps get at-large bids if you win. It would realistically be a while before that would happen regularly (see Union, UNO, Lowell, Merrimack).

IDK. Penn State took less than 5 seasons to be ranked top 20. Here we are in the AHC, 10 years later, only breaking the top 20 a hand full of times - due to autobids.

 

[Downstate_RIT_Fan]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Possible, but not nessecarily. Look at UConn's move to Hockey East. Despite having middling success in Atlantic Hockey, they're for the most part holding their own against some of the best teams. (especially last year) not to mention their attendance has gone up 10 fold.

As for recognizable opponents, I agree the ECAC might not have much in regard to "athletic powerhouses", but it's hard to deny more people would be interested in a game against Harvard or RPI than Robert Morris or AIC.

In my opinion, I think the biggest hurdle for us in getting the best recruits besides the lack of scholarships is the stigma against Atlantic Hockey. Sure, the league might improve over time, but there will still be some dead weight schools holding it back. It's a gamble whether we stay or try our luck in another conference.

Great observations. Despite where UCONN sits in Hockey East and their current record (or their loss to Sacred Heart last night), ask any UCONN hockey fan where they would rather see their team, in Hockey East or in Atlantic Hockey? I think we all know that answer.

 

[XCTiger]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Comparing RIT to Penn State and the progress of their hockey programs is a real stretch. Penn State is where they are now because they are Penn State and have that level of name recognition from years of football. RIT has built its athletic reputation on hockey alone, while Penn State piggybacked hockey on top of Football and Basketball. They ( and ASU) really have a huge head start in building their programs. In the minds of most sports fans Penn State is DI, while RIT is some little D3 school in Troy. ;-)

 

[StimulisRK]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Penn State also has athletic scholarships.

Speaking of scholarships - I'm still confused about scholarships in AHC. Here's a quote from the most recent AHC blog post on here:

One reason for the league’s success is an elevation of its scholarship limit. Although the NCAA allows for a maximum monetary value of 18 scholarships, Atlantic Hockey allowed only 12 until last year. Over the past two years, they’ve phased in two more scholarships, bringing the league limit up to 14.

“The increase in scholarships allowed teams to offer athletes more money, which is helping them become much more competitive in recruiting,” said DeGregorio, who anticipates the topic will be reviewed once again at the league’s meetings this spring.
Read more: http://www.uscho.com/2016/01/27/deg...need-for-nonconference-success/#ixzz3yToUcQJq

1) Why does AHC limit scholarships to 12/14 instead of allowing the NCAA max of 18?
2) Are these 14 per team, or 14 scholarships in all of AHC?
3) What schools in AHC are allowed to give scholarships (I know there's weird NCAA rules that prohibit RIT)?

 

[lmg6841]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Penn State also has athletic scholarships.

Speaking of scholarships - I'm still confused about scholarships in AHC. Here's a quote from the most recent AHC blog post on here:

One reason for the league’s success is an elevation of its scholarship limit. Although the NCAA allows for a maximum monetary value of 18 scholarships, Atlantic Hockey allowed only 12 until last year. Over the past two years, they’ve phased in two more scholarships, bringing the league limit up to 14.

“The increase in scholarships allowed teams to offer athletes more money, which is helping them become much more competitive in recruiting,” said DeGregorio, who anticipates the topic will be reviewed once again at the league’s meetings this spring.
Read more: http://www.uscho.com/2016/01/27/deg...need-for-nonconference-success/#ixzz3yToUcQJq

1) Why does AHC limit scholarships to 12/14 instead of allowing the NCAA max of 18?
2) Are these 14 per team, or 14 scholarships in all of AHC?
3) What schools in AHC are allowed to give scholarships (I know there's weird NCAA rules that prohibit RIT)?

1) AHC was founded as a cost containment league. I'm sure there are some schools that would rather not allow any scholarships, if possible.

2) The number is per team, and that number can divide into fractions. So say a team rosters 25 players, they could take the value of 14 scholarships and divide that amongst 25 players.

3) Everyone outside of RIT. I think the service Academies work differently, as there is no tuition.

 

[kwm4385]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Comparing RIT to Penn State and the progress of their hockey programs is a real stretch. Penn State is where they are now because they are Penn State and have that level of name recognition from years of football. RIT has built its athletic reputation on hockey alone, while Penn State piggybacked hockey on top of Football and Basketball. They ( and ASU) really have a huge head start in building their programs. In the minds of most sports fans Penn State is DI, while RIT is some little D3 school in Troy. ;-)

I never compared RIT to Penn State, but UCONN. Admittedly UCONN is also a D1 school but not quite as much of a household name as PSU (besides basketball). If they can have this amount of success without even having their own on campus arena, I see no reason why RIT could do the same if not better.

Not to beat a dead horse with scholarships (we all know the fact that we can't give them is egregious), but I'd rather be in a conference where 7 of 12 schools don't offer them than be the only one without regardless if its less than the rest of the NCAA.

 

[XCTiger]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

I never compared RIT to Penn State, but UCONN. Admittedly UCONN is also a D1 school but not quite as much of a household name as PSU (besides basketball). If they can have this amount of success without even having their own on campus arena, I see no reason why RIT could do the same if not better.

Not to beat a dead horse with scholarships (we all know the fact that we can't give them is egregious), but I'd rather be in a conference where 7 of 12 schools don't offer them than be the only one without regardless if its less than the rest of the NCAA.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on your post, it was another one that brought up PSU.

In terms of UCONN, the difference is likely the fact that they started putting resources into the program that they weren't doing before. I think that was one of the prerequisites before HEA offered them the slot. Had they put even half of the support into the program when they were in AHC they would have been one of, if not the elite program in the league.Heck If I recall, it wasn't that long ago that they didn't offer the full AHC compliment of scholarships.

For the first 10 years of the DI era Atlantic Hockey has been a perfect home for RIT. The opportunity for NCAA success has helped accelerate the building the programs reputation, and solidifying the community/fan support. Who knows how much longer the AHC will be home. The Tigers have done all they can to make themselves attractive to another league whether that be the ECAC or a reconstituted CCHA. Lets face it, they didn't need the GPC to stay competitive with the rest of the AHC. It was another piece put in place so that RIT is the first choice if/when a slot opens in another league.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

3) What schools in AHC are allowed to give scholarships (I know there's weird NCAA rules that prohibit RIT)?

The rules are not weird. RIT is a D-III program. D-III prohibits athletic scholarships for all their member institutions, regardless of what division their teams may play-up in.
The only seeming inconsistency is that there are other D-III programs in D-I hockey (and lacrosse) that do offer scholarships. D-III members voted to allow them to be grandfathered in and offer scholarships for their D-I play-up sports only. No new play-ups (i.e. RIT) will be allowed to do the same.

 

[StimulisRK]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

The rules are not weird.

Weird to me, with reference to the grandfathering aspect. "Can't we all just get along?"



So per other posts above - all other AHC teams, excluding Army and AF, give out athletic scholarships?

 

[kwm4385]

Weird to me, with reference to the grandfathering aspect. "Can't we all just get along?"



So per other posts above - all other AHC teams, excluding Army and AF, give out athletic scholarships?

That's correct. RIT and Union are the only teams in Division 1 that are prohibited from giving them.

 

[Downstate_RIT_Fan]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

That's correct. RIT and Union are the only teams in Division 1 that are prohibited from giving them.

..and the aforementioned service academies, Army and Air Force in D1 Hockey.

 

[lmg6841]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

..and the aforementioned service academies, Army and Air Force in D1 Hockey.

Are they prohibited? I thought those schools were just free.

 

[Downstate_RIT_Fan]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Are they prohibited? I thought those schools were just free.

Not free, after your second year, and before you start your third, you commit to a military obligation after graduation.