Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

[Kepler]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

FYP. I don't think someone can say "the problem is the other party" on this issue, Mr. Soros. For partisans of either stripe, corruption seems to be OK as long as we agree with the ends.

Let's say for a moment that the parties are equally culpable (I don't think that's true because the GOP has a built-in tie to big business through their pro-capital, anti-labor positions, but let's say for a moment it is true.) Even if the Dems have the same disease, it still invites the question: why, and what can be done to stop it?

 

[geezer]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Let's say for a moment that the parties are equally culpable (I don't think that's true because the GOP has a built-in tie to big business through their pro-capital, anti-labor positions, but let's say for a moment it is true.) Even if the Dems have the same disease, it still invites the question: why, and what can be done to stop it?

You're correct that it's a bigger problem on the right. But "Hollywood", "environmentalism" etc are among the powerful corrupt liberal institutions that keep the kickbacks flowing to the Democrats. And Wall Street is feeding both sides of the trough.
The veneer of altruism for "my side" only holds if you're trying really hard to put faith in it. Think about Albert Gore Junior and his well-traveled private jet. Nobody but a fool would believe he personally cares about environmentalism. Follow the money.
As to the questions, 1) greed, 2) I was hoping to hear alternatives. I think step one is for the peasants to agree that fixing it would benefit both sides and join forces.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I think step one is for the peasants to agree that fixing it would benefit both sides and join forces.

Well, I'm all about the peasants.

The only way to unite the peasants is to ignore the Culture War. That means everybody puts their gay marriage, abortion, prayer in schools hobbyhorse on the back burner and starts talking about wealth inequality, social mobility, taxation, debt forgiveness, etc. There's a reason the economy stagnated for the majority at the very time the Culture War started -- that was a brilliant feint to divide the forces who could have stopped the plutocrats.

Here's an interesting cross-national comparison over a shorter timeframe. As the wealthy draw more wealth from the middle class, investment rates for things that help narrow income inequality, like education and social programs, drop, thus pushing even more wealth to the upper class, and so on. The trend is further reinforced as economies and government policies retool to where the money is, essentially becoming courtiers to the wealthy. The only way to put a brake on this and turn the tide back is politically, so one would expect to see efforts to curtail the franchise for the poor and lower middle class. And right on schedule come voter suppression laws, particularly in states that are more under the thrall of the top class.

 

[geezer]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

And right on schedule come voter suppression laws, particularly in states that are more under the thrall of the top class.

I'm coming around in general, but is there any hint anywhere that asking people to show their ID to vote has ever affected an election (I assume this is what you're talking about)? This smells like a class warfare-type red herring.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Income inequality reversal, like personal liberties, should be a nonpartisan cause.

Must respectfully disagree; it is not "income" inequality that is a problem, it is persistent wealth inequality that is by far the more important concern.

People's incomes vary tremendously from year to year, especially the way that it is reported. You are an employee at a start up and take some pay in stock rather than in cash. Your company goes public and you sell some shares. That gives you a big blip in income, for that one year. This is a "problem"? I don't see how.

If you look at income mobility statistics, there is quite a bit of movement of actual individual people from one income band to another over time. If it were exactly the same people in every income band in every year, I might agree that income inequality might be a problem, but the evidence indicates that it is not really that serious. Any time a person cashes out a successful investment, it is reported as "income" all in that one year, which distorts the picture tremendously. It is hard even to get reliable data because the definition of "income" has changed several times over the past 30 years.

Persistent wealth inequality is a totally different matter. There is strong empirical evidence that ameliorating persistent wealth inequality, if done "properly", really does have salutary economic results.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I have no where else to put this since I didn't want to have any political debates in the movies thread:

But has anyone noticed the huge influx of movies like Selma, Black or White, etc. recently? Is it because February is fast approaching or just the topic du jour?

 

[geezer]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Persistent wealth inequality is a totally different matter. There is strong empirical evidence that ameliorating persistent wealth inequality, if done "properly", really does have salutary economic results.

Those words are way too hard for me; You must be much smarter at stuff.
Or else you're a blowhard.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I have no where else to put this since I didn't want to have any political debates in the movies thread:

But has anyone noticed the huge influx of movies like Selma, Black or White, etc. recently? Is it because February is fast approaching or just the topic du jour?

It's the topic du jour, just like gay people movies were really popular (or at least being made) a couple years ago. I found that it generally works in a sort of three-year ramp up process with these topical/agenda movies, where you'll see one or two movies in a given year, then there'll be a bunch more the next year, and then they tail off the next year. By the fourth year Hollywood is on to a completely new topic.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

It's the topic du jour, just like gay people movies were really popular (or at least being made) a couple years ago. I found that it generally works in a sort of three-year ramp up process with these topical/agenda movies, where you'll see one or two movies in a given year, then there'll be a bunch more the next year, and then they tail off the next year. By the fourth year Hollywood is on to a completely new topic.

Um...these release dates are calculated months, even years, in advance. "Selma" has been planned since December 2009.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Um...these release dates are calculated months, even years, in advance. "Selma" has been planned since December 2009.

So they planned it out a few years in advance before getting bored of planning out more of them. Same net effect.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

So they planned it out a few years in advance before getting bored of planning out more of them. Same net effect.

And "Black and White" was planned in July 2013. This isn't a "topic du jour." In case you haven't noticed, films that have black people as the focus have been around for decades now...

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

And "Black and White" was planned in July 2013. This isn't a "topic du jour." In case you haven't noticed, films that have black people as the focus have been around for decades now...

You're missing the mark by stating black people as the focus. It's the events within the movies that are the topic du jour. Friday was a movie that focused on black people, but it's hardly a topical movie to be included with the others.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Those words are way too hard for me; You must be much smarter at stuff.
Or else you're a blowhard.

Unfair. Each word he used was well chosen. It would have been more clear like this:

OTOH, there is strong evidence that reducing persistent wealth inequality is good for the economy.

But just because he used longer words does not make him a "blowhard." That's perilously close to the "You use good grammar? You think you're better than me?!" tub thump.

Plus, for once he's actually right. Let's give some positive reinforcement here.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

This discussion of Selma is ridiculous. The whole point of the MLK story is IT'S NOT FOCUSED ON BLACK PEOPLE, IT'S FOCUSED ON JUSTICE. King isn't a "black hero," he's an American hero, and his struggle is one of the greatest stories of heroism in American history. Whites were debased by the apartheid system King helped destroy, just as straights today are debased by legally-enforced homophobia. As we all strike down these hateful laws we all recapture our dignity as Americans.

But not the Irish.

 

[geezer]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Unfair. Each word he used was well chosen. It would have been more clear like this:


But just because he used longer words does not make him a "blowhard." That's perilously close to the "You use good grammar? You think you're better than me?!" tub thump.

Plus, for once he's actually right. Let's give some positive reinforcement here.

Not at all. I'm all about well chosen words. But to me part of the beauty of good writing is the clarity that comes with choosing the most direct route. I know we're not writing essays for "Ploughshares" here, but is there ever a good time to use "salutary" informally? What lack hath "good" or "helpful"?
It's not all about the length of the words. It's a question of why that word was selected. You better be getting your money's worth for all four syllables of an arcane usage that muddles clarity. Or should I say "which encumbers comprehension"?
Besides, "ameliorating" isn't accurate. I think he wanted "reducing", which means he wasted six syllables and misstated his meaning.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Not at all. I'm all about well chosen words. But to me part of the beauty of good writing is the clarity that comes with choosing the most direct route. I know we're not writing essays for "Ploughshares" here, but is there ever a good time to use "salutary" informally? What lack hath "good" or "helpful"?
It's not all about the length of the words. It's a question of why that word was selected. You better be getting your money's worth for all four syllables of an arcane usage that muddles clarity. Or should I say "which encumbers comprehension"?

Hey, I agree. Strunk & White was written at Cornell.

However, as you said we're all just typing with fire and forget here, and we all know the great Benjamin Franklin joke. If people are diligent enough to correct their punctuation and make cogent points, let's not be too hard! That was the first post Fish has written in months that wasn't copy-pasted from Breitbart. He deserves a hug, not a slap.

 

[unofan]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

If you look at income mobility statistics, there is quite a bit of movement of actual individual people from one income band to another over time.

You keep repeating this as though it is gospel truth, ignoring the fact that the trend is towards less movement overall and the odds of someone moving more than a single quintile, especially upwards, are slim to none.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Those words are way too hard for me; You must be much smarter at stuff.
Or else you're a blowhard.

Eschew sesquipedalian obfuscation ... and loquaciousness.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

You keep repeating this as though it is gospel truth, ignoring the fact that the trend is towards less movement overall and the odds of someone moving more than a single quintile, especially upwards, are slim to none.

Especially when compared to other countries.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Persistent wealth inequality is a totally different matter. There is strong empirical evidence that ameliorating persistent wealth inequality, if done "properly", really does have salutary economic results.

Those words are way too hard for me; You must be much smarter at stuff.

Sorry, I was wearing my old academic hat. I'm no smarter at this stuff than you are.

Continuing wealth inequality is a serious problem. We've seen situations in other countries and at other times that, in societies that had extreme wealth inequality, when that wealth inequality was addressed by a thoughtful, planned redistribution of wealth to a broader base of the population, the results have been an economic boom time that benefited most members of the society afterward.