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Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Any number of people would look at that and declare me a flaming liberal.

I would like to see the American Overton window pushed to where your views were seen by the majority as dead center.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I would like to see the American Overton window pushed to where your views were seen by the majority as dead center.


Which is kind of how I actually see myself. I actually believe that I'm a centrist. It's just American politics that has lurched to the right.

So you may be correct in me having a false idea of where I actually stand, just not in the way you may have imagined.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

So you may be correct in me having a false idea of where I actually stand, just not in the way you may have imagined.
I think we all have a false sense of where we stand relative to the "center." It's as if in plotting our position on a Cartesian plane we not only give ourselves a dot but also draw a circle where we think, say, half of America fits. Almost everyone puts his dot inside his circle -- most people probably put it at the exact center. However, people's circle guesses are hopelessly biased by who they talk to and who they read, so they have almost no idea of where the actual circle would be. Add in the fact that absent other information people have a cognitive bias to assume others agree with them, and it's just that much more messy.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Any number of people would look at that and declare me a flaming liberal.

I'm out of touch with the PC secret decipher code ring these days. Does the use of the word "flaming" as an adjective still make you a homophobe? or was that ten years ago and is now out of date? :confused:
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!


I would have expected you at least to know the difference between "proximate" cause and "ultimate" cause...maybe you are not a personal injury attorney though. How soon until the Garner estate sues the city for wrongful death? How will they argue? that the police overreacted? (read smaller settlement) or that the police were merely an instrument of a wider persistent discriminatory environment that made such actions possible? (read bigger settlement).

Sometimes your knee-jerk reactions make you come across as a lot more stupid than you appear to be otherwise, when you've actually exercised your brain instead of your bile.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Well, I took part in the labor protests at our state capitol and voted against Walker 3 times including the recall.

I'm against voter ID in its current (proposed) form - meaning where it hurts minorities and the poor and only benefits one party.

I'm for Gay marriage, the ability for gay couples to adopt and I 'm against the boy scouts for their stance - whether or not they have the "right."

While I personally detest the idea of abortion, I'm for the woman to have the right to make that decision as long as it's in the first trimester - unless her health is at risk later on.

I believe that gun control is far too lenient and would like to see more restrictions imposed. Not that people shouldn't be able to own guns though.

I believe that corporations are not in fact people.

I'm for the most part opposed to the death penalty - should be reserved for only the most heinous of crimes - not a gas station holdup gone bad.

I believe that taxes are essential so that the government can provide essential services. Whether that money is used in the right way or efficiently is another question.

I believe that society should provide for those who need it although those who are able should be forced (through job training etc) to get off of assistance at some point.


On the other side, I tend to be a bit more hawkish foreign policy-wise than the typical dem-voting Madisonian, I loathe the PC police, I believe that schools should be able to put on Christmas concerts, and I don't personally have a huge problem with torturing terrorists - whether our country should do it or not is a separate issue.


Any other hot button issues you'd like to know about before you deliver your verdict?
Ooh, I like this. Even better, Kepler gets to play Joan Quigley and tell us all about ourselves. I'm next.

Voter Id. I'm in favor. I think it's silly that we consider it normal to have to show an ID to use a credit card, pick up your mail when you've been on vacation, get hired for a job, etc..., and that it's an unreasonable hardship to show one when you vote. Pass the rule and make it effective 5 years from now to give everyone (by that, I mean all 14 people who don't have some sort of photo id) a chance to get one.

Gay Marriage. All in favor. Homosexuality isn't something that you are taught or that you pick up through your environment. It's who a person is, just like the color of your hair. If churches don't want to perform a ceremony for homosexuals, so be it. No one will probably be going to that church 25 years from now anyway. But for purposes of state recognized rights, any objection is purely bias.

Abortion. Woman's choice right up until the kid is born. Until then it's just a kidney or a gall bladder or any other part of her body. Raising a kid is a serious, important and expensive proposition and I don't think we should be telling people they have to do it if they don't want to.

Gun Control. Complete waste of time. Every gun that is sold has a serial number. Record the number and the name of the party that it's sold to. When you sell it, pass that information along, just like a car title. Until the new owner gets identified, it's still your problem. Start enacting laws that make gun owners liable for illegal acts committed with their weapons, both civilly and criminally. If people want to ban other people from bringing guns into their homes or businesses, fine. Same for government buildings. But those are just property issues. But you want to own a handgun, an assault rifle, or a hundred of them, be my guest.

ACA. It was a stupid idea, but it's done. Getting rid of it now does more harm than good. I don't believe you have a fundamental right to health care or health insurance or anything of the sort. It's like life insurance. You would be wise to set aside some of your earnings to purchase it. But if you choose not to, I'm not going to give it to you. We should have just gone with a single payer system if we were going to change, but with substantial limitations. We're stuck with Medicare. But like Social Security, I believe in means testing, and it's going to be hardcore. Government programs are supposed to be a safety net, not some sort of supplement to free up your other income so you can sit in a casino playing slots all day. I'm sorry. If we're sitting here pulling down $100-200,000 a year, I don't need any SS or medicare.

Death Penalty. Against. If the justice system is managed by humans, it's fallible. We can correct improper incarcerations. We can't correct executions.

Citizens United. Corporations aren't people. They are legal entities. But people are legal entities too. They both can spend whatever they want to say what they want, within the normal bounds governing free speech for humans. In fact, I think corporations and rich people should be encouraged to spend even more on elections. At least the money stays in the country and goes towards paying the salaries of television employees, people who make campaign signs, pollsters, and the hundreds of thousands of earnest, though misguided, campaign employees who would otherwise probably be unemployed.

Immigration. I believe in an open door policy. I think the desire of people to move to this country (or others) is no different than the migration of birds south/north or the migration of animals in Africa and the other continents. It's nature. It is natural to desire to move to a location with better opportunities for food, shelter, etc... But if you come here, you have to obey the rules. You have to pay taxes. You have to obey our laws. And if you want a vote, if you want a say so in how we do things here, you have to become a citizen. If not, you hold nothing more than a non-voting share of stock in this country, and you don't get to complain about how we do things.

Foreign Policy. I'm a bit of an isolationist (imagine that, coming from North Dakota). I think we need to stop spending our time serving as the world's cop, when we haven't been hired for the job, and I think we need to stop justifying it by claiming we are looking after our own interests. At the same time, I think we need a prepared military, and if called upon to respond, we respond hard. No screwing around. All means necessary.

Christmas Concerts in School. Sure, so long as I don't have to go. And so long as you don't make someone participate who otherwise has a reasonable objection, such as a different religion.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Ooh, I like this. Even better, Kepler gets to play Joan Quigley and tell us all about ourselves.

1) If you'd actually read anything I wrote, I'm not doing that at all.

2) Had to look her up -- nice one. Given how much of a chuckle she was at the time, I'm surprised she didn't enter into the cultural lexicon as much as Monica. (Either that or she did and I just missed it.)
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

And if you just want to play Analyze This, here, be my guest:

Voter Id. Against unless there's a single, free, national ID distributed to every person when they become eligible. Works just like Subway: you vote, they hole punch you. Not sure what you get free with your tenth vote.

Gay Marriage. No such thing, it's just marriage.

Abortion.Woman's choice until viability as defined by third trimester until the science is better. If mother chooses to have it and father doesn't want to financially support it he isn't legally liable.

Gun Control. No simple answer. You can't have an uzi like you can't have a rocket launcher. You can have all the hand guns you like. No concealed carry, I want to know you're an a-hole so I can leave the restaurant. Private places can allow them, public places they should be completely banned.

ACA. Keep it until we pass single payer. Means test EVERYTHING. If you win life's lottery, good for you, it's its own reward.

Death Penalty. Leave it to the states for now. There are people who need their bloodlust sated, and if enough of them live in one state then let them indulge themselves. Those aren't places normal people want to live anyway.

Citizens United. Individuals who are eligible to vote may contribute up to $2500 per person, gross, for all campaigns. All other funding is either public or banned.

Immigration. Ellis Island. If you've got cholera or a murder conviction you get sent back, otherwise you're in. Limit all state benefits to citizens. Use the same citizenship rules we had in 1900 -- pass a test, get sworn in, congrats.

Foreign Policy. Forward deployment bases where we're wanted by referendum of the local population. Lease depots, dry docks where the DOD wants them. Flip the DOD and DOS budgets. No wars unless explicitly voted on by a super-majority in Congress. No open-ended appropriations for military support. Reopen embassies in every country where DOS doesn't deem it too dangerous for the embassy staff. No money for any weapon system the armed forces doesn't want.

Christmas Concerts in School. Whatever. The smart kids will figure it out, just like always.

Public Education Free through college, with entitlement proviso below.

Entitlements Universal with means-testing. In other words, transform them all into Charitable programs.

Taxes All income (cap gains, salary, bonuses, property) taxed the same. Tax brackets based on prior year's distribution of income: 20% for bottom half of population, 30% for 51-75%, 40% for 76-88%, 50% for 89-93%, etc. 50% inheritance tax for all personal assets above $5M; 90% above $50M.
 
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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Abortion.Woman's choice until viability as defined by third trimester until the science is better. If mother chooses to have it and father doesn't want to financially support it he isn't legally liable.
So, a man can impregnate anyone he wants and as long as he says "abortion" he's off the hook?

I don't think so.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

So, a man can impregnate anyone he wants and as long as he says "abortion" he's off the hook?

I don't think so.

Choice also means responsibility. The woman has the ability to abort or not. That is not a license to extort 18 years of payments. If we're getting rid of the anti-female sexism, we're getting rid of the pro-female sexism, too. Breeding is not privileged.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Choice also means responsibility. The woman has the ability to abort or not. That is not a license to extort 18 years of payments. If we're getting rid of the anti-female sexism, we're getting rid of the pro-female sexism, too. Breeding is not privileged.

I see you flipping all the responsibility onto the woman in this case. I don't agree with that.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I see you flipping all the responsibility onto the woman in this case. I don't agree with that.

We are conditioned to extend extra protections to women in cases like this because that used to be the other side of the paternalism coin when we denied them their rights. You can't just suspend one side of that bad deal, it all goes. On balance, I doubt most women want to be kept in a gilded cage.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

1) If you'd actually read anything I wrote, I'm not doing that at all.

2) Had to look her up -- nice one. Given how much of a chuckle she was at the time, I'm surprised she didn't enter into the cultural lexicon as much as Monica. (Either that or she did and I just missed it.)
I used Joan only because she just died. I'd forgotten all about her too.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

We are conditioned to extend extra protections to women in cases like this because that used to be the other side of the paternalism coin when we denied them their rights. You can't just suspend one side of that bad deal, it all goes. On balance, I doubt most women want to be kept in a gilded cage.

So, hypothetically.

Someone has sex with a woman knowing she is a devout Catholic. She gets pregnant. He goes to Court, plays the abortion card. She's now on the hook for the whole thing? I think this issue is too complex just to say if women want choice then the man if off the hook altogether.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

So, hypothetically.

Someone has sex with a woman knowing she is a devout Catholic. She gets pregnant. He goes to Court, plays the abortion card. She's now on the hook for the whole thing? I think this issue is too complex just to say if women want choice then the man if off the hook altogether.


Would a devout Catholic have premarital sex?

ZING!!!

:p


I do agree with you though that it's a bit too complicated for Kepler's solution.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

So, a man can impregnate anyone he wants and as long as he says "abortion" he's off the hook?

I don't think so.

Until male birth control is a thing then I don't believe that women should just be able to lie about taking theirs or poke holes in a condom and extort 18 years of payment out of someone. And honestly that's not the type of person that should be raising a child anyhow.
 
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And if you just want to play Analyze This, here, be my guest:

Voter Id. Against unless there's a single, free, national ID distributed to every person when they become eligible. Works just like Subway: you vote, they hole punch you. Not sure what you get free with your tenth vote.

Gay Marriage. No such thing, it's just marriage.

Abortion.Woman's choice until viability as defined by third trimester until the science is better. If mother chooses to have it and father doesn't want to financially support it he isn't legally liable.

Gun Control. No simple answer. You can't have an uzi like you can't have a rocket launcher. You can have all the hand guns you like. No concealed carry, I want to know you're an a-hole so I can leave the restaurant. Private places can allow them, public places they should be completely banned.

ACA. Keep it until we pass single payer. Means test EVERYTHING. If you win life's lottery, good for you, it's its own reward.

Death Penalty. Leave it to the states for now. There are people who need their bloodlust sated, and if enough of them live in one state then let them indulge themselves. Those aren't places normal people want to live anyway.

Citizens United. Individuals who are eligible to vote may contribute up to $2500 per person, gross, for all campaigns. All other funding is either public or banned.

Immigration. Ellis Island. If you've got cholera or a murder conviction you get sent back, otherwise you're in. Limit all state benefits to citizens. Use the same citizenship rules we had in 1900 -- pass a test, get sworn in, congrats.

Foreign Policy. Forward deployment bases where we're wanted by referendum of the local population. Lease depots, dry docks where the DOD wants them. Flip the DOD and DOS budgets. No wars unless explicitly voted on by a super-majority in Congress. No open-ended appropriations for military support. Reopen embassies in every country where DOS doesn't deem it too dangerous for the embassy staff. No money for any weapon system the armed forces doesn't want.

Christmas Concerts in School. Whatever. The smart kids will figure it out, just like always.

Public Education Free through college, with entitlement proviso below.

Entitlements Universal with means-testing. In other words, transform them all into Charitable programs.

Taxes All income (cap gains, salary, bonuses, property) taxed the same. Tax brackets based on prior year's distribution of income: 20% for bottom half of population, 30% for 51-75%, 40% for 76-88%, 50% for 89-93%, etc. 50% inheritance tax for all personal assets above $5M; 90% above $50M.
Ok, here I go...

Voter ID: Everybody at the Alaska Standard until we can get a free national ID system going.

Gay Marriage: Unless you remove all legal benefits of marriage, you can't restrict which two humans get married.

Abortion: This is a bit weird but, I believe the issue should be dealt with by women only. No man will ever get pregnant so we have no basis to be making this decision.

Gun Control: I'm a radical on this. Repeal the 2nd Amendment, restrict to bolt action rifles and small handguns, ammunition restrictions, registration, no firearms for personal protection, background checks etc. Basically, put us at the standard of the rest of the civilized world.

Health Care: There two options and only two options. 1. Repeal the laws forcing hospitals to provide care even if a person can't pay for it. 2. Single payer system. Guess which one will be more popular?

Death Penalty: The justice isn't, and will never be, perfect. You can release an innocent man from prison, you can't bring him back to life.

Citizens United: Corporations aren't people. But to move on, people, corporations etc. are limited to a cumulative total of $500 yearly to candidates, PACs, parties, committees etc. All records have to be made public.

Immigration: Remove a lot of the roadblocks. If a person that can meet minimum standards of health and ability wants to live here they should be able to.

Foreign Policy: Outside of treaty obligations in Europe (NATO) and Korea, all US troops moved back stateside. Equipment only the military wants and needs. Better benefits for veterans and active duty soldiers. No "police actions", only wars as authorized by Congress.

Christmas Concerts: Fine, but don't get *ed off at somebody who wants to do something else too.

Workers Rights: Removal of all "right to work" laws, all "at will" laws, ease restrictions on unionization and limit companies on anti-union activities. Higher minimum wage as well.
 
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