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Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
How dare you suggest that "perfect" Jesus, who was supposedly both man and god, ever thought about *gasp* sex. Per the writings, he really did never act upon such thoughts, but still, OMG how dare you! *clutches pearls*
How dare you suggest that "perfect" Jesus, who was supposedly both man and god, ever thought about *gasp* sex. Per the writings, he really did never act upon such thoughts, but still, OMG how dare you! *clutches pearls*
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
How dare you suggest that "perfect" Jesus, who was supposedly both man and god, ever thought about *gasp* sex. Per the writings, he really did never act upon such thoughts, but still, OMG how dare you! *clutches pearls*
Dude, we’ve all seen the da Vinci code
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
He was in his PRIME! He could have been knee deep in shepherd's daughters...
How dare you suggest that "perfect" Jesus, who was supposedly both man and god, ever thought about *gasp* sex. Per the writings, he really did never act upon such thoughts, but still, OMG how dare you! *clutches pearls*
He was in his PRIME! He could have been knee deep in shepherd's daughters...
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
better than deep in the shepherd's sheep
better than deep in the shepherd's sheep
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
There was a subtle reason I stopped attending church:
The attitude of "oh, you're single? We have nothing for you. We don't want to have anything for you." Felt like the church was either preparing kids for marriage, or falling all over themselves to tend to married couples. Meanwhile, single people were ignored. Never mind 1 Corinthians 7:25-40, which says "it's okay to be single if you're not ready for marriage."
There was a subtle reason I stopped attending church:
The attitude of "oh, you're single? We have nothing for you. We don't want to have anything for you." Felt like the church was either preparing kids for marriage, or falling all over themselves to tend to married couples. Meanwhile, single people were ignored. Never mind 1 Corinthians 7:25-40, which says "it's okay to be single if you're not ready for marriage."
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Thought you'd found a church with a better leader?
Thought you'd found a church with a better leader?
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
I did. Went there today. There, no added favors to married couples.
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Faith/Church can be powerfully beneficial - due to the general core Gospels platform. I've seen many healthy people deepen their compassion for their friends, families and esp. strangers. I've seen many unhealthy people (divorcees, drug addicts, etc) be given anywhere between a big respite to another lease on life. Personally I've seen fully baked, less tolerant conservatives or others that can't help but have their tone softened in some ways by the compassion message. As discussed, the nature of the church community is crucial.
But you won't get the faith if you don't have an avid desire to learn or self improve - everyone I've encountered at my church does. They don't take everything on board, but they want to improve.
Faith/Church can be powerfully beneficial - due to the general core Gospels platform. I've seen many healthy people deepen their compassion for their friends, families and esp. strangers. I've seen many unhealthy people (divorcees, drug addicts, etc) be given anywhere between a big respite to another lease on life. Personally I've seen fully baked, less tolerant conservatives or others that can't help but have their tone softened in some ways by the compassion message. As discussed, the nature of the church community is crucial.
But you won't get the faith if you don't have an avid desire to learn or self improve - everyone I've encountered at my church does. They don't take everything on board, but they want to improve.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
As can clear, logical, secular humanist thinking.
All messages that emphasize humility and generosity can be equally fulfilling and inspiring. It's not magic. The variable is whether the person is willing to incorporate those virtues into his worldview. If he's not then Man In Sky is just as likely to fail with him as Read A Book.
As can clear, logical, secular humanist thinking.
All messages that emphasize humility and generosity can be equally fulfilling and inspiring. It's not magic. The variable is whether the person is willing to incorporate those virtues into his worldview. If he's not then Man In Sky is just as likely to fail with him as Read A Book.
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Preach it brotha.
Seriously - advance a positive, concrete platform and inspire others to follow it.
Preach it brotha.
Seriously - advance a positive, concrete platform and inspire others to follow it.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
So much for "progressive" Frank.
I'm sure joe is just celebrating all over his office/computer room right now.
So much for "progressive" Frank.
I'm sure joe is just celebrating all over his office/computer room right now.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
He's head of the Catholic Church. He's bound by dogma, but can still wiggle things around in other areas. Most aspects that come off as too conservative, he's tied to it by dogma. Dogma, if you talk to schooled Catholics, is the one part of the Church that will never change. He can update other aspects of the Church, so long as it doesn't cross Dogma. When he's accepting of LGBT people in general, he's seen as being ultra-liberal by the Church and its ardent adherents. LGBT parenting and Church sanctified marriage is a different level, something he can't avoid regardless of whatever his personal opinions may be.
He's head of the Catholic Church. He's bound by dogma, but can still wiggle things around in other areas. Most aspects that come off as too conservative, he's tied to it by dogma. Dogma, if you talk to schooled Catholics, is the one part of the Church that will never change. He can update other aspects of the Church, so long as it doesn't cross Dogma. When he's accepting of LGBT people in general, he's seen as being ultra-liberal by the Church and its ardent adherents. LGBT parenting and Church sanctified marriage is a different level, something he can't avoid regardless of whatever his personal opinions may be.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
It's not Church dogma that a family is a man and a woman. That's a social convention. But it also isn't going to change for centuries.
Holy Mother Church is always about 500 years behind the rest of the West. They finally took their foot off the Jews' throat over Jesus in, like, 1965. Obviously the church bureaucracy isn't going to understand marriage equality -- the West didn't even start to get their heads screwed on straight about that until the 1980s in even the most enlightened countries. We still have a huge number of living people in this country who will literally never get it. It's a software upgrade that is incompatible with their old hardware. Like the racists and sexists of the past, they will die saying "that doesn't look like anything to me." No doubt changes are coming which will similarly be too advanced for you and me. Humanity evolves, but individuals live and die frozen in the mindset of their upbringing.
As the Senate is a cooling pan, the Vatican is a glacier. It moves s l o w l y, but it does move. Obviously this really sucks for some things (various oppressions, from atheists to gays to women). In other things it's actually pretty good -- the Church has still not embraced the psychotic capitalism of the West (which remember is still less than 200 years old -- it's air to us, but to most of human history it's a passing stomach virus) and continually reminds people of inconvenient facts about Jesus preaching about being kind of the poor and those other "losers." The Church is, in a sense, the only Western institution that is not completely compromised by the 1%. They have a power elite, of course, but it's a different breed of cat.
I don't expect a Pope, even one as apparently humane as Francis, to turn this 1500-year old aircraft carrier on a dime. It's going to be a long, long arc towards justice and a lot of people will be hurt needlessly in the ensuing period. But it's good to have at least one institution that is targeting human good. Scientific institutions are morally neutral and economic institutions are morally reprehensible. The Church is at least committed to good. Even though most of the people in it are eejits and many of its precepts are the vestigial baggage of the species' lizard brain, it has A Plan, and it's thinking in terms of centuries. Give it time.
It's not Church dogma that a family is a man and a woman. That's a social convention. But it also isn't going to change for centuries.
Holy Mother Church is always about 500 years behind the rest of the West. They finally took their foot off the Jews' throat over Jesus in, like, 1965. Obviously the church bureaucracy isn't going to understand marriage equality -- the West didn't even start to get their heads screwed on straight about that until the 1980s in even the most enlightened countries. We still have a huge number of living people in this country who will literally never get it. It's a software upgrade that is incompatible with their old hardware. Like the racists and sexists of the past, they will die saying "that doesn't look like anything to me." No doubt changes are coming which will similarly be too advanced for you and me. Humanity evolves, but individuals live and die frozen in the mindset of their upbringing.
As the Senate is a cooling pan, the Vatican is a glacier. It moves s l o w l y, but it does move. Obviously this really sucks for some things (various oppressions, from atheists to gays to women). In other things it's actually pretty good -- the Church has still not embraced the psychotic capitalism of the West (which remember is still less than 200 years old -- it's air to us, but to most of human history it's a passing stomach virus) and continually reminds people of inconvenient facts about Jesus preaching about being kind of the poor and those other "losers." The Church is, in a sense, the only Western institution that is not completely compromised by the 1%. They have a power elite, of course, but it's a different breed of cat.
I don't expect a Pope, even one as apparently humane as Francis, to turn this 1500-year old aircraft carrier on a dime. It's going to be a long, long arc towards justice and a lot of people will be hurt needlessly in the ensuing period. But it's good to have at least one institution that is targeting human good. Scientific institutions are morally neutral and economic institutions are morally reprehensible. The Church is at least committed to good. Even though most of the people in it are eejits and many of its precepts are the vestigial baggage of the species' lizard brain, it has A Plan, and it's thinking in terms of centuries. Give it time.
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Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
@Freddygray31: There are more Anglican churchgoers in Muslim Pakistan (500,000) than Scotland (44,280) and Wales (78,000) Dennis Lennox on @SpectatorUSA https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/why-is-anglicanism-facing-a-postcolonial-rift/
@Freddygray31: There are more Anglican churchgoers in Muslim Pakistan (500,000) than Scotland (44,280) and Wales (78,000) Dennis Lennox on @SpectatorUSA https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/why-is-anglicanism-facing-a-postcolonial-rift/
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
<img src="https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b96b1a484018a41e75598e7cf7b43311" />
<img src="https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b96b1a484018a41e75598e7cf7b43311" />
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leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Huh? I thought Popes got to make up Dogma as they went along. That's how priests couldn't marry, how they started doing the indulgence thing, made up purgatory and limbo, etc. WHen ever there is a convenient reason for the Dogma to change (keeping property with the church instead of the wife/family, needing $$ for the Basilica, etc) it does. There is no financial gain to change the Dogma re the marriage thing or the gay thing so it doesn't change. Of course financially in the end this shoots them in the foot but...
Huh? I thought Popes got to make up Dogma as they went along. That's how priests couldn't marry, how they started doing the indulgence thing, made up purgatory and limbo, etc. WHen ever there is a convenient reason for the Dogma to change (keeping property with the church instead of the wife/family, needing $$ for the Basilica, etc) it does. There is no financial gain to change the Dogma re the marriage thing or the gay thing so it doesn't change. Of course financially in the end this shoots them in the foot but...
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
When a Catholic priest dies, the assets of that priest are not handed over to the Church as a matter rule. While many of them do give the monetary assets to the Church, not all do. Some give it to extended family - nieces and nephews, bast-ard children, and so on. My fiancée's priest who passed away willed his money to a religiously affiliated charity, but not to the Church itself.
When a Catholic priest dies, the assets of that priest are not handed over to the Church as a matter rule. While many of them do give the monetary assets to the Church, not all do. Some give it to extended family - nieces and nephews, bast-ard children, and so on. My fiancée's priest who passed away willed his money to a religiously affiliated charity, but not to the Church itself.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Dogma can be changed but it has to be formally announced by the magisterium (basically, the Vatican, with the Pope in the lead).
There actually was an experiment after the Great Schism to make dogmatic changes a function of the cardinals meeting en banc as a council -- a parliamentary system that would have markedly liberalized church institutions. But the popes beat it back and restored themselves as absolute monarchs, and have remained so.
If Conciliarism had triumphed, Protestantism might well have been unnecessary and Christian history very different.
Dogma can be changed but it has to be formally announced by the magisterium (basically, the Vatican, with the Pope in the lead).
There actually was an experiment after the Great Schism to make dogmatic changes a function of the cardinals meeting en banc as a council -- a parliamentary system that would have markedly liberalized church institutions. But the popes beat it back and restored themselves as absolute monarchs, and have remained so.
If Conciliarism had triumphed, Protestantism might well have been unnecessary and Christian history very different.
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