Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Every time parishioners start reciting the various creeds and such during Catholic Mass, I hear "We are the Borg..." It's eerily reminiscent in the feeling I got when hearing a thousand voices all speaking in unison, using a droning cadence.

And when the wafer and wine are transubstantiated into the body and blood, how is that not cannibalism? Do I need to bust out the CCC and re-read that part?

 

[MissThundercat]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

As a lapsed Protestant, reciting the Apostles' Creed felt boring and monotonous. (mumble mumble)sufferedunderPontiusPilate, wascrucifieddeadandburied (mumble mumble)

And since God is blocked by a school door, as Fundies believe, I don't know why we're bothering with Biblical Easter. God might as well be scratching lottery tickets and drinking Mickey's outside a local convenience store.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

I'm marrying an ardent Catholic, and attend Mass weekly now. I like most of the people I meet. There's just the Borg factor to Mass when some 600 voices (normal Mass) are all droning out the same thing, in what sounds like a disinterested voices.

All of this. My experience with church when little was in a small, very personal church where everyone knew everyone and praying for each other was heartfelt. When I went to Christmas Eve Mass for the first time with mr les (lifelong Catholic, parents taught CCD) I was horrified. No one was saying the words with feeling. It was like they were robotic. Even the Priest was saying everything with no inflection. I joked it was a race to see who could finish first. People were thoroughly disengaged. They were in church, check off the box, get credit therefore no going to hell for them. Pretty much the same experience every Catholic Church I have been in. That and 3/4 of them leave before the end of Mass. I bet they have no idea what the end of the Mass actually says. That gets me every time. Like they are in a drive thru or a cafeteria. GO down the middle aisle carrying coat, pocketbook, various paraphernalia, stick the hand out for the wafer, whiz down the aisle and shoot out the door.

In talking with the Fa-in-law Catholics go because to not go is a sin. Lutherans going is an optional thing. You have grace no matter what so the people going for the most part are there willingly instead of to check off the box. No one leaves before the end of the service. No one would even think of it.

Maybe small Catholic churches are different?

 

[joecct]

All of this. My experience with church when little was in a small, very personal church where everyone knew everyone and praying for each other was heartfelt. When I went to Christmas Eve Mass for the first time with mr les (lifelong Catholic, parents taught CCD) I was horrified. No one was saying the words with feeling. It was like they were robotic. Even the Priest was saying everything with no inflection. I joked it was a race to see who could finish first. People were thoroughly disengaged. They were in church, check off the box, get credit therefore no going to hell for them. Pretty much the same experience every Catholic Church I have been in. That and 3/4 of them leave before the end of Mass. I bet they have no idea what the end of the Mass actually says. That gets me every time. Like they are in a drive thru or a cafeteria. GO down the middle aisle carrying coat, pocketbook, various paraphernalia, stick the hand out for the wafer, whiz down the aisle and shoot out the door.

In talking with the Fa-in-law Catholics go because to not go is a sin. Lutherans going is an optional thing. You have grace no matter what so the people going for the most part are there willingly instead of to check off the box. No one leaves before the end of the service. No one would even think of it.

Maybe small Catholic churches are different?

Depends on the person and it depends on the catechesis coming from the rectory and the chances.

And frankly the Novus Ordo Mass is bland and most of the music (why is there music anyway) is awful. They don't call it the Ordinary Form for nothing.

Try an Anglican Ordnariate or a Traditional Latin Mass. Much richer and the parishioners are more engaged.

 

[unofan]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

You would prefer we said the Creed privately?

I detect a prejudice against Catholics here. Am I mistaken?

Sure we're different. We believe in a set inconvenient (uncomfortable) truths that are in conflict with modern society. So?

He's commenting on the form, not the substance, Joe. That's patently obvious.

 

[unofan]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

All of this. My experience with church when little was in a small, very personal church where everyone knew everyone and praying for each other was heartfelt. When I went to Christmas Eve Mass for the first time with mr les (lifelong Catholic, parents taught CCD) I was horrified. No one was saying the words with feeling. It was like they were robotic. Even the Priest was saying everything with no inflection. I joked it was a race to see who could finish first. People were thoroughly disengaged. They were in church, check off the box, get credit therefore no going to hell for them. Pretty much the same experience every Catholic Church I have been in. That and 3/4 of them leave before the end of Mass. I bet they have no idea what the end of the Mass actually says. That gets me every time. Like they are in a drive thru or a cafeteria. GO down the middle aisle carrying coat, pocketbook, various paraphernalia, stick the hand out for the wafer, whiz down the aisle and shoot out the door.

In talking with the Fa-in-law Catholics go because to not go is a sin. Lutherans going is an optional thing. You have grace no matter what so the people going for the most part are there willingly instead of to check off the box. No one leaves before the end of the service. No one would even think of it.

Maybe small Catholic churches are different?

St. Mary Magdalene's in downtown Omaha. Probably only 50 actual parishioners, but always standing room only crowds. 15 minute weekday mass, 30 minutes on Sundays, 45 minutes for Palm Sunday even with the reading of the Passion. Draws 'em in from around the city.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

All of this. My experience with church when little was in a small, very personal church where everyone knew everyone and praying for each other was heartfelt. When I went to Christmas Eve Mass for the first time with mr les (lifelong Catholic, parents taught CCD) I was horrified. No one was saying the words with feeling. It was like they were robotic. Even the Priest was saying everything with no inflection. I joked it was a race to see who could finish first. People were thoroughly disengaged. They were in church, check off the box, get credit therefore no going to hell for them. Pretty much the same experience every Catholic Church I have been in. That and 3/4 of them leave before the end of Mass. I bet they have no idea what the end of the Mass actually says. That gets me every time. Like they are in a drive thru or a cafeteria. GO down the middle aisle carrying coat, pocketbook, various paraphernalia, stick the hand out for the wafer, whiz down the aisle and shoot out the door.

In talking with the Fa-in-law Catholics go because to not go is a sin. Lutherans going is an optional thing. You have grace no matter what so the people going for the most part are there willingly instead of to check off the box. No one leaves before the end of the service. No one would even think of it.

Maybe small Catholic churches are different?

It helps if you get a singing priest, so that every Mass is a High Mass.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

It helps if you get a singing priest, so that every Mass is a High Mass.

THey all are singing. Makes me think of Prof Binns in Harry Potter who drones on- died one day and his ghost showed up and kept on like nothing happened.

 

[joecct]

THey all are singing. Makes me think of Prof Binns in Harry Potter who drones on- died one day and his ghost showed up and kept on like nothing happened.

And that is the problem. Way back in the day (65-66) our parish had one High Mass every Sunday with the choir (5th - 8th grade and men's schola). We sung, the pews listened and those behind the altar rail reenacted the Sacrifice at Calvary. It was glorious and not a mystery.

Every other Mass was a Low Mass with a priest, 2 altar boys and the parishioners in the pews. Done in 45 - 50 minutes depending on communion.

Now it's ordinary.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

And that is the problem. Way back in the day (65-66) our parish had one High Mass every Sunday with the choir (5th - 8th grade and men's schola). We sung, the pews listened and those behind the altar rail reenacted the Sacrifice at Calvary. It was glorious and not a mystery.

Every other Mass was a Low Mass with a priest, 2 altar boys and the parishioners in the pews. Done in 45 - 50 minutes depending on communion.

Now it's ordinary.

The problem is it aint Latin. The apotheosis of sung Latin is the Te Adore.* The apotheosis of sung English is this pap.

* To be fair, the "Te Adore" is anchored in the same chord progression as this.

 

[joecct]

The problem is it aint Latin. The apotheosis of sung Latin is the Adoro Te Devote. The apotheosis of sung English is any song off You Can Play These Songs with Chords.

1965 was English except for the Canon.

Try an Anglican Ordnariate. English Hymns, parts of the Book of Common Prayer, parts Extraordinary and Ordinary Form. Lots of smells and bells. What the modern liturgy could/should be.

One is in DC (St. Luke's near Capital One Arena) and another in Baltimore (Mt. Calvary).

Or you could go to Fr. Scalia's old parish in McLean and they celebrate both forms every Sunday.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Try an Anglican Ordnariate. English Hymns, parts of the Book of Common Prayer, parts Extraordinary and Ordinary Form. Lots of smells and bells. What the modern liturgy could/should be.

Dr. Mrs. and I attended Vespers at Westminster Cathedral a few years ago. That is how you do it.

This would also be acceptable.

 

[joecct]

Dr. Mrs. and I attended Vespers at Westminster Cathedral a few years ago. That is how you do it.

Yup. The Anglicans have it all over us Catholics when it comes to music.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Yup. The Anglicans have it all over us Catholics when it comes to music.

But the Lutherans win. Bach is the Final Boss.

 

[burd]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

But the Lutherans win. Bach is the Final Boss.

What about the Mormons? They have Donnie and Marie.

But seriously, we should probably not forget the Black congregations in the South. I don't know enough about the congregations, but the music is a powerful part of worship.

 

[joecct]

But the Lutherans win. Bach is the Final Boss.

YouTube- BBC Series, Sacred Music. Very informative.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

What about the Mormons? They have Donnie and Marie.

But seriously, we should probably not forget the Black congregations in the South. I don't know enough about the congregations, but the music is a powerful part of worship.

Black Protestants win for the performance, absolutely. Most other Christians either have unsingable dirges (Catholics) or don't deserve the beautiful music they are gifted with (white Protestants).

 

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

And that is the problem. Way back in the day (65-66) our parish had one High Mass every Sunday with the choir (5th - 8th grade and men's schola). We sung, the pews listened and those behind the altar rail reenacted the Sacrifice at Calvary. It was glorious and not a mystery.

Every other Mass was a Low Mass with a priest, 2 altar boys and the parishioners in the pews. Done in 45 - 50 minutes depending on communion.

Now it's ordinary.

Maybe it is because you can go like Burger King. Any time, drive thru and bam you are done. Having Service only one day a week instead of all these creative rules so people can chose days, times, etc builds a sense of community.

Dr. Mrs. and I attended Vespers at Westminster Cathedral a few years ago. That is how you do it.

This would also be acceptable.

We did that. It is beautiful!!

 

[joecct]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

The Pope today reportedly said Hell doesn't exist. Bad souls simply "disappear".

Oh boy.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

The Pope today reportedly said Hell doesn't exist. Bad souls simply "disappear".

Oh boy.

Ex cathedra? Cuz that would be kinda big.

Or is this the usual Ross Douthout knuck hit job on Frank? IINM the Catholic version of CPAC was arglebargling the same thing 4 years ago. They really, really hate him. Which makes him A+ in my book. And likely Jesus'.

Not to mention that, you know, there is no hell, and no afterlife, and no God.