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Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

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Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

When did you lose faith and what is that like?

College. A combination of evolving political & scientific views, and the priesthood child rape scandals did it for me. When you come to realize that most organized Christian churches are a farce, and that the Bible is full of contradictory language, it's pretty easy to brush it all away.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Because I went to Catholic school for k-8, have been to mass more times than I can count, and the Church is the founder of Christianity, tracing its roots back to Peter. So I do count on it, as the expert in the field and the original creator of the Christian Bible, to get the faith correct, even if I no longer have any myself. It's been attempting to answer questions of faith for literally millennia, so you'll have to pardon me if I give its answers more credence than I do someone who is essentially a self-taught weekend warrior in the field.

And more to the point, just because you happen to take the paradoxical stance that half the Bible (or really, just the four gospels that happen to have been chosen by the Catholic Church for inclusion in the Bible) is literally the word of God and rest isn't, doesn't mean that the vast, vast majority of Christians make that same distinction. Catholicism and the major protestant denominations all treat the entire Bible as the word of God, not just the New Testament and certainly not just the four gospels.

This is one of the biggest reasons I've lost faith in the faith community. Men interjecting their beliefs as if it were the word of God. Most individual rules are almost certainly bunk made up by someone in a position of power who wanted to screw someone else. Well, maybe not the murder part, but whatever. My point is that Man is fallible and an understanding of the general concept of "Be good, do good" is far more important than worrying about whether you should pull your azz out of a well on the Sabbath.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

The only rule a person really needs to follow in life is, "Don't be a dick." I don't need the Bible to tell me that.
 
I don't know about Catholics, but don't lump in us Lutherans with being Old Testament Jews. Christ set us free from "the Law" (the OT). We are not bound by it. We are not held accountable to it. We don't follow it. We are forgiven everything according to the New Testament.

Lutheranism traditionally still holds the Old Testament to be as much the Word of God as the New Testament. How the two interact and get interpreted varies from individual to individual, but Lutherans traditionally don't simply ignore the Old Testament as something less.
 
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Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

I don't know if I ever had true faith, any more than any child can when they don't know what they're actually doing. But I definitely prayed as a kid, and believed God was real, if only because it was never questioned. For me, as I got older, the inherent contradictions started me down the slippery slope to the point I am now. At some point I realized doubting Thomas gets a bad rap; it's not unreasonable to want proof, in fact it's the smart thing to do.

The flat out meanspiritedness of the religious right didn't help matters as I became more aware of politics, even though that is more evangelical protestants than Catholics.

For me, it ultimately comes down to a version of the "evil" paradox. Bad things happen to good people through no fault of their own. So either God can't intervene, in which case he's not really a god, or he chooses not to, in which case he's an ******* and not worthy of our devotion. And requiring blind devotion as a prerequisite for salvation is the sign of a narcissist, not a benevolent deity.

To the extent there may be higher powers out there in the universe somewhere, any sufficiently advanced technology will seem like magic or miracles to those who have never seen such technology before. In other words, "God" could be aliens, but that doesn't mean the aliens are gods.
Was a Unitarian (HERESY!1!11!1!) when I was a kid. I went the other way and am a Lutheran (ELCA- none of the exclusionist synods). I have no problem fitting my Faith in with doubts, science, evolution, or Politics.
-Politics- There are whole parts of the NT that deal with the Fundies and their misguidedness. They remind me of the Pharisees and the Sadducees that the Jesus chastised. They just never read the parts they should
-evolution- I can't see why God's day has to equal a human's day
-science- I see no reason why science contradicts religion except for those who are inflexible and don't have the ability to believe. Churches that struggle with that are missing the point
-doubts- Lutheranism is formed by a dude who doubted and was OK with it. I don't need to know everything or understand everything.
-bad stuff and good people- Some stuff sucks. I am not sure why it happens. My belief system re Predestination is sort of nebulous. I am not sure if God actively sets out to smite people who are dicks. I am not sure if God actively does stuff to people. I am not convinced he should rectify everything because there are too many moving parts and who deserves to get what they want. Sometimes what is good for one person might not be good for others. I find that in my life the one door closes but another one opens is spot on. I may not get what I think I need but I get what is needed
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

The ECLA owns the rights to "Davey and Goliath". Being a good Catholic boy, when I first heard "A Mighty Fortress" in church, I thought they were playing the Davey & Goliath theme song.

I would lean towards the Missouri Synod side of the Lutherans if I jumped ship (which I can't/won't).

Am I dating myself with the Davey & Goliath reference??
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

The ECLA owns the rights to "Davey and Goliath". Being a good Catholic boy, when I first heard "A Mighty Fortress" in church, I thought they were playing the Davey & Goliath theme song.

I would lean towards the Missouri Synod side of the Lutherans if I jumped ship (which I can't/won't).

Am I dating myself with the Davey & Goliath reference??

I got it, so yes.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Am I dating myself with the Davey & Goliath reference??
Yes and no. It's been referenced in other more current shows, so there's a chance that younger people - even younger than me at 40, will know the reference even if they haven't seen a single episode of it.
 
Yes and no. It's been referenced in other more current shows, so there's a chance that younger people - even younger than me at 40, will know the reference even if they haven't seen a single episode of it.

Saw Davey and Goliath in church when I was a kid, and even Robot Chicken spoofed it.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

The ECLA owns the rights to "Davey and Goliath". Being a good Catholic boy, when I first heard "A Mighty Fortress" in church, I thought they were playing the Davey & Goliath theme song.

I would lean towards the Missouri Synod side of the Lutherans if I jumped ship (which I can't/won't).

Am I dating myself with the Davey & Goliath reference??
??? those people are Batsh1t crazy. They censored the Pastor that attended the ecumenical service for the 9/11 victims because he was communing with the enemy.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

??? those people are Batsh1t crazy. They censored the Pastor that attended the ecumenical service for the 9/11 victims because he was communing with the enemy.

Really? I think I grew up on a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, and it was very liberal. Love everybody, forgive everybody, believe in Jesus, be tolerant, work hard, drink a little, howl at the moon a little now and then if you need to, love everybody again.

Come to think of it, there seemed to be a lot of swingers in that small community.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Really? I think I grew up on a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, and it was very liberal. Love everybody, forgive everybody, believe in Jesus, be tolerant, work hard, drink a little, howl at the moon a little now and then if you need to, love everybody again.

Come to think of it, there seemed to be a lot of swingers in that small community.

We have one up here. No women are allowed in leadership. No women are allowed to teach Sunday School to boys over the age of 12 because men have dominion over women. Can't take communion in another church because only the Misouri Synod is the correct way. I can't remember all of it but the one up here is like a Lutheran Fundy church
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

We have one up here. No women are allowed in leadership. No women are allowed to teach Sunday School to boys over the age of 12 because men have dominion over women. Can't take communion in another church because only the Misouri Synod is the correct way. I can't remember all of it but the one up here is like a Lutheran Fundy church

Wow. I must be mistaken then, because that is totally unlike what I was exposed to. Still strayed away a long time ago, though.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

We have one up here. No women are allowed in leadership. No women are allowed to teach Sunday School to boys over the age of 12 because men have dominion over women. Can't take communion in another church because only the Misouri Synod is the correct way. I can't remember all of it but the one up here is like a Lutheran Fundy church

You sure you aren't thinking of the WELS? We had one of their members on these threads occasionally - Timothy A.

And yeah, they are a "missionary while thinking of Jesus" type church. :p
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

We have one up here. No women are allowed in leadership. No women are allowed to teach Sunday School to boys over the age of 12 because men have dominion over women. Can't take communion in another church because only the Misouri Synod is the correct way. I can't remember all of it but the one up here is like a Lutheran Fundy church

Maybe it's just politics? They are apparently currently being led by a prize f-ckwit.

More moderate members of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod have clashed with conservatives before. In 1974, conservative Lutherans accused John Tietjen, then president of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis — an institution that trains future synod leaders — of failing to insist on a literal instruction of the Bible, especially the Old Testament.The controversy led the majority of Concordia’s faculty and students to walk out of the school in protest. Many eventually formed Seminex, a “seminary in exile,” at St. Louis University and Eden Theological Seminary. Seminex has since disbanded.

Tietjen helped organize in 1976 the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches, a collection of congregations that opted to leave the Missouri Synod.

As a leader of the group, Tietjen helped merge it in 1987 with the Lutheran Church in America and the American Lutheran Church. That merger created the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the largest Lutheran denomination in the U.S.

Some argue the 1970s schism left the church bereft of more moderate members, setting the stage for leaders such as Harrison. In a surprise defeat of a more liberal three-term incumbent — the Rev. Gerald Kieschnick — delegates of the denomination elected Harrison president in 2010.

Harrison’s victory represented a conservative ideological shift for the denomination, which has come with its set of challenges.

In 2013, for example, Harrison made headlines when in the wake of the tragic shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., he asked a church pastor to apologize for participating in an interfaith vigil.

The church’s constitution prohibits members from taking part in worship services that blend the beliefs and practices of Lutherans with those of other faiths and Christian denominations.
 
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