leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
I just repped you but pretend I can again. You are on a roll
I just repped you but pretend I can again. You are on a roll
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Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
No, says the Bible.
The Gospels redefined the Bible. Jesus is the Word ('the Word was made flesh'), 'fulfilled the law' and created the New Covenant. Romans in 50BC do not have the same weight as Jesus/God regardless of what a church says.
Perhaps I'm not as much of a OT literalist as many non believers here. I don't think I have advocated throwing out the 10 commandments, yet I don't think its 'against the rules' to believe that the OT is divinely inspired without it being literal.
No, says the Bible.
The Gospels redefined the Bible. Jesus is the Word ('the Word was made flesh'), 'fulfilled the law' and created the New Covenant. Romans in 50BC do not have the same weight as Jesus/God regardless of what a church says.
Perhaps I'm not as much of a OT literalist as many non believers here. I don't think I have advocated throwing out the 10 commandments, yet I don't think its 'against the rules' to believe that the OT is divinely inspired without it being literal.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
I'm pretty sure keeping the church clean is the least of Osteen's concerns.
He certainly has the money to help, if he wants to.
This is true. Doesn't change the fact that there are major hypocrites out there, though. These "prosperity gospel" types are charlatans of the highest degree.
I'm pretty sure keeping the church clean is the least of Osteen's concerns.
He certainly has the money to help, if he wants to.
This is true. Doesn't change the fact that there are major hypocrites out there, though. These "prosperity gospel" types are charlatans of the highest degree.
MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
Not to defend Joel Osteen, because your statement is pretty accurate, but the announcement did say it was because it was inaccessible due to severe flooding...
Not to defend Joel Osteen, because your statement is pretty accurate, but the announcement did say it was because it was inaccessible due to severe flooding...
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
I dunno...
http://www.snopes.com/is-osteens-megachurch-affected/
I dunno...
http://www.snopes.com/is-osteens-megachurch-affected/
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
Just adding one clarification regarding my 'downplaying' much of the OT.
Jesus valued the 10 commandments (we should value it), He emphasized parts of the OT about loving your neighbor (we should too), he ignored a fair amount of it...and refuted parts of it ('eye for an eye'). Regardless of what a church may say, the Word edited the OT for us.
Just adding one clarification regarding my 'downplaying' much of the OT.
Jesus valued the 10 commandments (we should value it), He emphasized parts of the OT about loving your neighbor (we should too), he ignored a fair amount of it...and refuted parts of it ('eye for an eye'). Regardless of what a church may say, the Word edited the OT for us.
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
While I don't know enough to judge Osteen on this one...broadly speaking, you're 100% correct.
While I don't know enough to judge Osteen on this one...broadly speaking, you're 100% correct.
unofan
Well-known member
Again, so you say. The major sects of Christianity disagree, and your interpretation sure makes it sound like God farked up. Because if he didn't, then why would the divinely inspired Old Testament need editing.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.c...osteen-shuts-church-amid-flooding-crisis/amp/
The man is drip slime.
https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.c...osteen-shuts-church-amid-flooding-crisis/amp/
The man is drip slime.
MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
Hey, I also said your statement was accurate.
Hadn't seen the pictures, just the announcement.
Hey, I also said your statement was accurate.
Hadn't seen the pictures, just the announcement.
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
And no, Jesus said so. An inspired OT is not a literal and infallible OT. Jesus said so Himself by refuting an 'eye for an eye'.
And why are you as a non believer putting so much credence in the viewpoints of a church anyways?
And no, Jesus said so. An inspired OT is not a literal and infallible OT. Jesus said so Himself by refuting an 'eye for an eye'.
And why are you as a non believer putting so much credence in the viewpoints of a church anyways?
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
You're only about six hours too late.
You're only about six hours too late.
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
I miss this at the end of Mass. Fortunately the Anglican Ordnariate kept it after Paul VI tossed it in 1965.
John 1:1-14 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA))
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him.
8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light.
9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.
13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
I miss this at the end of Mass. Fortunately the Anglican Ordnariate kept it after Paul VI tossed it in 1965.
John 1:1-14 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA))
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him.
8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light.
9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.
13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
Not sure how you get from these wonderful words to "if you put your winkie in the wrong place you burn forever."
I'm curious why "him" is not capitalized in the above. Is that just a mistake or is there something theologically meaningful going on?
Not sure how you get from these wonderful words to "if you put your winkie in the wrong place you burn forever."
I'm curious why "him" is not capitalized in the above. Is that just a mistake or is there something theologically meaningful going on?
unofan
Well-known member
Because I went to Catholic school for k-8, have been to mass more times than I can count, and the Church is the founder of Christianity, tracing its roots back to Peter. So I do count on it, as the expert in the field and the original creator of the Christian Bible, to get the faith correct, even if I no longer have any myself. It's been attempting to answer questions of faith for literally millennia, so you'll have to pardon me if I give its answers more credence than I do someone who is essentially a self-taught weekend warrior in the field.
And more to the point, just because you happen to take the paradoxical stance that half the Bible (or really, just the four gospels that happen to have been chosen by the Catholic Church for inclusion in the Bible) is literally the word of God and rest isn't, doesn't mean that the vast, vast majority of Christians make that same distinction. Catholicism and the major protestant denominations all treat the entire Bible as the word of God, not just the New Testament and certainly not just the four gospels.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
When did you lose faith and what is that like? I never possessed a scintilla of faith (as far as I remember). Christianity was a puzzle and the Church was just a creepy annoyance.
When did you lose faith and what is that like? I never possessed a scintilla of faith (as far as I remember). Christianity was a puzzle and the Church was just a creepy annoyance.
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar
I don't know about Catholics, but don't lump in us Lutherans with being Old Testament Jews. Christ set us free from "the Law" (the OT). We are not bound by it. We are not held accountable to it. We don't follow it. We are forgiven everything according to the New Testament.
I don't know about Catholics, but don't lump in us Lutherans with being Old Testament Jews. Christ set us free from "the Law" (the OT). We are not bound by it. We are not held accountable to it. We don't follow it. We are forgiven everything according to the New Testament.
unofan
Well-known member
I don't know if I ever had true faith, any more than any child can when they don't know what they're actually doing. But I definitely prayed as a kid, and believed God was real, if only because it was never questioned. For me, as I got older, the inherent contradictions started me down the slippery slope to the point I am now. At some point I realized doubting Thomas gets a bad rap; it's not unreasonable to want proof, in fact it's the smart thing to do.
The flat out meanspiritedness of the religious right didn't help matters as I became more aware of politics, even though that is more evangelical protestants than Catholics.
For me, it ultimately comes down to a version of the "evil" paradox. Bad things happen to good people through no fault of their own. So either God can't intervene, in which case he's not really a god, or he chooses not to, in which case he's an ******* and not worthy of our devotion. And requiring blind devotion as a prerequisite for salvation is the sign of a narcissist, not a benevolent deity.
To the extent there may be higher powers out there in the universe somewhere, any sufficiently advanced technology will seem like magic or miracles to those who have never seen such technology before. In other words, "God" could be aliens, but that doesn't mean the aliens are gods.
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