Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

wirat,

My points were ment to help girls know it's not just them. There are coaches who mislead them and will say anything to get a top player to their school. Also to let them know they will be ok and keep working hard. Never give up! And that they are special players/kids even if things aren't working out now. Belieive! Confident you can prove them wrong.

Coaches do lie. Or let me say do what it takes even if it means hurting people. But yes that is a life lesson.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

wirat,

My points were ment to help girls know it's not just them. There are coaches who mislead them and will say anything to get a top player to their school. Also to let them know they will be ok and keep working hard. Never give up! And that they are special players/kids even if things aren't working out now. Belieive! Confident you can prove them wrong.

Coaches do lie. Or let me say do what it takes even if it means hurting people. But yes that is a life lesson.

What happens in recruiting and what happens once the players are on campus are two separate issues altogether. I've acknowledged that there are coaches who will sell their soul to get kids on campus, but there are just as many, if not more cases of players/parents hearing what they want to hear. When you hear the tales of woe about how someone feels they were lied to and misled and all those other things, the truth is probably more often than not somewhere in the middle. The coaches that sell their soul are doing it to get the kids that they believe can help them, not the ones that can come in and sit on the bench.

After all why would a coach promise the world to a kid that couldn't help them? Obviously either A) they weren't telling the family what the family was hearing, B) the player didn't work hard and live up to their end of the bargain, or C) the coach mis-evaluated where a player might fit in right away...in which case that doesn't make them a liar, it makes them human.

I'm not exonerating coaches. I've heard of plenty of weird stories...and usually involving some of the same names...but it's definitely a two-way street

 

[pakidnyc]

What happens in recruiting and what happens once the players are on campus are two separate issues altogether. I've acknowledged that there are coaches who will sell their soul to get kids on campus, but there are just as many, if not more cases of players/parents hearing what they want to hear. When you hear the tales of woe about how someone feels they were lied to and misled and all those other things, the truth is probably more often than not somewhere in the middle. The coaches that sell their soul are doing it to get the kids that they believe can help them, not the ones that can come in and sit on the bench.

After all why would a coach promise the world to a kid that couldn't help them? Obviously either A) they weren't telling the family what the family was hearing, B) the player didn't work hard and live up to their end of the bargain, or C) the coach mis-evaluated where a player might fit in right away...in which case that doesn't make them a liar, it makes them human.

I'm not exonerating coaches. I've heard of plenty of weird stories...and usually involving some of the same names...but it's definitely a two-way street

In my experience having gone through this with my daughter, but also advising others, sometimes the parents leave too much up to the kid to handle and the right questions aren't asked. Or other times I wonder if the parents don't ask the questions because they don't really want to hear the answers. Usually if the questions are asked, I think the majority of the coaches will give an honest answer. But, if they aren't asked the question, they aren't necessarily going to say, "I see you coming in on the 3rd or 4th line." as in most things "information is key". If you're going through this with your daughter, make sure she's armed with good, intuitive questions to ask the coach.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I'm sorry I get fired up when it comes to kids. Just dont' want anyone to get hurt. I do understand it happens. I have stood up for coaches in the past and would never mention names unless for positive reasons. For instance my daughter and I met with coach Johnson. He was true and honest with his presentation. We really knew where we stood if she were to attend(she didn't). Great guy and coach. I just know of another two or three top coaches who made promises to girls and totally changed once they got there. If I could tell you names you would say WOW i can't believe it. I'm talking about 3 year captains and top recruited players. These players are great kids and very hard working young players. What these coaches said and how they said it are unexceptable in my opinion. These players were crushed instead of given ways to work hard and earn it back.

Coaches like Johnson are honest say I see you here and possibly here. Other coaches recruit only 40 goal kids and have 20 of them and expect them to 4th liners. Easy to coach talent but hard to keep all of them happy unless you were HONEST with them. Which to me is the key to winning championships.

 

[ARM]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

... sometimes the parents leave too much up to the kid to handle and the right questions aren't asked. ... If you're going through this with your daughter, make sure she's armed with good, intuitive questions to ask the coach.

And I'd say that's how it should be handled -- advise your daughter on what she should be asking. As much as possible, let her drive the process, because a parent's reality and a daughter' reality aren't necessarily the same thing. I've known parents who were unhappy with the daughter's role while the daughter was okay with it. Once she gets to college, she's an adult and it is, after all, her life.

Go into any program, you will find people that aren't 100% happy. Yes, even Wisconsin, although I agree with WCHFan that Coach Johnson is trying to be honest. There's only so much pie to divide up, everyone has an appetite and would like a bigger slice. That's life, and those who learn to be content with less than they'd like are going to be happier in life.

I also agree with WIrinkrat -- everybody gets a shot to practice. Work hard there and improve. Coaches like to win. If a player improves the team's prospects of winning, that player is going to play. The problem we all have is we like those that we see more. The players on the team that we follow, the kids we've watched grow up from toddlers -- it's human nature to favor them. Sometimes, it is a matter of different perspective. Parents should try to remember this, because I've known very reasonable people that had no objectivity when it came to their child's ability or lack thereof.

 

[D2D]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Parents should try to remember this, because I've known very reasonable people that had no objectivity when it came to their child's ability or lack thereof.

In my experience this is more the norm rather than the exception. And this drives expectations which become way too high, which in turn increases the odds of being disappointed in the outcome.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

In my experience this is more the norm rather than the exception. And this drives expectations which become way too high, which in turn increases the odds of being disappointed in the outcome.

While I agree with this comment. I can assure you the players I'm talking about were top 10-20 D1 recruits and would be top six forwards most D1 teams. Again this post is Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept. My point has been there's a right way and a wrong way to recruit kids. Especially now that we're seeing 15 year olds being recruited. Your comment about expectations of parents being way to high is exactly why I feel coaches need to be more truthful to these kids. And there are some parents I don't think should ever have a say because of their blindness to their childs ability.

Coaches shouldn't be making promises and if they do should keep them. Period.

 

[ARM]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Coaches shouldn't be making promises and if they do should keep them. Period.

I bet this is a communication problem. Coaches say something like, "You can skate on the top two lines and get power play time." The player takes this to mean right away, the coach is thinking someday. The a player needs to ask herself, what can the coach promise? Can they offer 75% of a scholarship? Yes, and that should be viewed as a promise. Playing time? How does the coach know enough months or years before to promise that?

For example, Minnesota forward Emily West wound up redshirting last season and instead of graduating is now taking a regular shift this season. Obviously, every shift she takes on the PP, PK or even strength would have gone to someone else this year had she stayed healthy last year. There are talented kids on the Gophers' team getting less shifts than expected, but it isn't fair to sit West if she's a top-two-line forward, which she is, because some incoming player was under the assumption that she would play more. It happens in men's hockey all of the time, with people turning pro or not turning pro, making recruiting as much art as science.

Players need to look big picture. Is the person playing in front of me better? If yes, then that's why she is playing more. If no, then prove it in practice and when you do get a shift. Complaining about it won't get you anywhere. Hard work or an honest conversation with the coaches regarding what needs improvement might.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Again I agree with you a little. Communication problem? YES! it's called get this top player any way you can. Tell them what they want to hear. Which is wrong.

My point is. Just don't make the promise to a 18 year old kid you can't keep. Be like Johnson and level with a kid. Make sure you point out sometimes things change and there are no guarantee's. This is where I see you next year BUT.

Let me simplify it for you.

Your boss promises you a raise next week and then next week comes and says sorry can't do it until next year. Just be happy. Are you dissapointed? Crushed? Of course you are. Remember Chevy Chase in Christmas Vacation??

 

[ARM]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Be like Johnson and level with a kid.

Like I said, I've heard the same complaint about Johnson. Do I think he's guilty? No. It's all about perception.

Your boss promises you a raise next week and then next week comes and says sorry can't do it until next year.

To me, that's equivalent to the scholarship offer; that's a financial promise. If the boss says, "Next month, you can work on Project XYZ," but Project XYZ is canceled, or John Doe is transferred to my department and his skill set is a better match, then I have to suck it up and realize that some things are outside of the control of my boss.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I guess we will have to disagree about what a promise means. And I do feel these promises are made. What I know about Johnson is first hand.

I’m done with this topic.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I guess we will have to disagree about what a promise means. And I do feel these promises are made. What I know about Johnson is first hand.

I’m done with this topic.

Nobody is disagreeing with what a "promise means". I think people are disagreeing with you because they rationally believe that there is a lot of interpretation going on by both sides and that things aren't as black and white as you seem to want them to be.

If a coach tells you that they can see you as a top 6 forward and getting pp time...that doesn't mean you should walk in the door 12 months from now and just expect it. Frankly, if you're an athlete and you don't want to earn your ice time...with your actions in COLLEGE HOCKEY, not club or high school hockey...then you need to re-evaluate your take on things anyway. Alas, it's easy for an exuberant player or parent to hear promises there where they don't really exist.

There is nothing wrong with a coach telling a player where they think they can fit in. Does it mean it's definitely going to happen? Heck no. Too many factors at play. That alone doesn't make the coach a liar.

 

[northhockey]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I haven't read a single post on this thread, but I don't believe any coach would "promise" any recruit anything. If you are a team player and strive to become better, the sky is the limit. If you are upset with your role, it's like hating the boss that fired you! production, production, production..

 

[Trillium]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

and your wrong it is a coaches responsibility to give top players who they recruited by telling them they would play and play a lot an opportunity to prove themselves. And yes coaches do have favorites whether it's seniors or alumni parents kids. It happens. Obvioulsy i can't mention names but i do know of at least 4 players personally who i'm positive were told things by top schools to get them to attend and give up better offers. Who are now being told they should just be happy to be there. Like i said we're talking about 16, 17 and 18 year old kids and they're being painted a pretty picture and it's actually a fake.

How about tell a player to keep working hard and that anything can happen. Be ready when your time comes. Not i see you as a 3 or 4th line player and how dare you question me. I believe these kids that are telling me these things. and how about you coach these top players who you promised things so they aren't crushed and doubting themselves. When i coached. Especially with girls. You need to build confidence even with top players as they've never experienced this before. Coach!

and yes! Coaches do play favorites and i believe hockey is a team sport where all 25 players make a difference and instead of playing the top six players how about give 3 or 4 line player a chance to play up when a star is struggling which will motivate them. It's called coaching everyone. It's easy to coach a top team and sometimes in my opinion over coach by only playing their top six to eight.

these kids aren't lazy. They were made promises. My original post was to not make the open ended promises and level with girls and their parent the possibility she might not play if i don't feel she's good enough. It's called honesty!

omg!!! This!!!

 

[EastFan1]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

WARNING

To every recruit without a realistic shot of making the 2014 Olympic team:

You are eligible to play in about 140 college games. If you go to a program with a handful of Olympic players, you will spend a lot of time on the bench because these players will be on the ice over half of the game. They are on the ice so much because their coach knows they are better then you even when double-shifting. They will score many goals and win lots of games. You will watch these player score many goals and win lots of games.

There are a couple dozen teams that do not have any Olympic players. Because these teams often lose to the double-shifting goal scorers, some recruits do not want to play for them. However, if you want to spend less time on the bench, you should think about playing for one of these teams.

 

[hockeydad94]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Okay, time for a little confession. I started this thread because my daughter had a number of recruiting promises made to her and to date, not one has been kept. I wanted to hear from others as to what their experience was and not making this a complaining thread. The promises consisted of playing time, even more playing time if she worked hard & performed well, and an equipment allowance. When has had the opportunity to play, she has done a very good job. My daughter had a number of other college offers, but the playing time was THE deal maker. She loves the school and is having a great college experience, but the hockey part has become the most frustrating season of her life. Unless there is a stark change for next year, I see her transferring or possibly giving up hockey and staying at this school. It is amazing that this coach has been able to operate like this and get away with it (my daughter is not the only one).

 

[brookyone]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

When has had the opportunity to play, she has done a very good job.

Just looking for a little clarification or a better grasp of your position. Are you saying you, and your D as well believe she's played well enough to warrant more ice time, but hasn't gotten it? As was promised?

 

[hockeydad94]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Just looking for a little clarification or a better grasp of your position. Are you saying you, and your D as well believe she's played well enough to warrant more ice time, but hasn't gotten it? As was promised?

She was promised to start in about a third of the games. The games that she has played in, she has done very well. This is evidenced by her stats, the opinion her teammates have shared with her, and the press she has received. Discussions with the coach have not revealed anything amiss and there is nothing in her conduct in either a game or in a practice that should discourage the coach from playing her as promised. Have you guessed that she is a goalie?

 

[eg1351]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

She was promised to start in about a third of the games. The games that she has played in, she has done very well. This is evidenced by her stats, the opinion her teammates have shared with her, and the press she has received. Discussions with the coach have not revealed anything amiss and there is nothing in her conduct in either a game or in a practice that should discourage the coach from playing her as promised. Have you guessed that she is a goalie?

In that case, how has the other goalie played that she is competing for playing time with?

 

[LG4]

She was promised to start in about a third of the games. The games that she has played in, she has done very well. This is evidenced by her stats, the opinion her teammates have shared with her, and the press she has received. Discussions with the coach have not revealed anything amiss and there is nothing in her conduct in either a game or in a practice that should discourage the coach from playing her as promised. Have you guessed that she is a goalie?

That is a tough situation but I think that it is something that needs to be answered by other goalies. Rookie goalies in situations where there are proven seniors just don't get the time by what I see unless the senior falters.I see national team invite players start 2/3 games their rookie year. So unless you know they have recruited another top end goalie for next year I wouldn't worry. My admiration and respect to those young ladies who are used to top minutes in nets as their situation has got to be tough mentally. Just look at the big picture when she is a junior/senior would she be willing to split starts with a freshman?