Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

[zoofer]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

While I have you player parents here in one spot...why do you think it is that women players do not seem to realize the need for their team to have "role players"? As has been pointed out, a players spot on a team is not protected yet how many of us men have been on teams where we had our Captain playing 3rd or 4th line, or maybe just PP or PK because that was "their role"? It just seems that women don't see the same aspect to the team.....

 

[ARM]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

While I have you player parents here in one spot...why do you think it is that women players do not seem to realize the need for their team to have "role players"? ... It just seems that women don't see the same aspect to the team.....

I don't think that you can generalize to that degree. I've spoken to many players over the years that understood roles well, whether the individual's role was to score and the pressures that come with that, a third-line defense-first assignment, or farther down the line chart where she may not always get to dress. The player may not always relish the particular role that she is filling, but they do understand that each member has a role and that it is part of sacrificing for the team.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I don't think that you can generalize to that degree. I've spoken to many players over the years that understood roles well, whether the individual's role was to score and the pressures that come with that, a third-line defense-first assignment, or farther down the line chart where she may not always get to dress. The player may not always relish the particular role that she is filling, but they do understand that each member has a role and that it is part of sacrificing for the team.

Agreed, that you cannot generalize. Like with any 18-22 age group, male or female, hockey or other team sport, some get it at that age and for others it has not yet clicked in.

What is great about any team sport at the varsity level, is the fact that the players get the opportunity to learn to be team players. While that may not always come easy or go over well for players that have been club team stars all their life, it is a great learning lesson for real life.

Our oldest, who has graduated, did not always understand this when she was still playing, but she gets it now, a few years later.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

As far a promises met goes....As someone said earlier, it is a two way street.

Always found that it is best to be honest with recruiters. They do talk to each other. If you are willing to place a school in your top three and make that verbal commitment to them, they will be able to make likewise commitment, if they are interested. Just be carefull, to only list three schools as your top three and not ten.

Remember that early in the game, all schools are after the same Top 50 players for their 1-2 recruits. If you are not part of that list, you may have to be patient, until those blue chippers start landing.

 

[hockeydad94]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Lets say you are at a school and the situation is not too good. None of the recruiting promises were kept and the prospect for things working out in the future are not too good. Do players that transfer find a better place? They presumably have learned from the first try. Or is it like going from the frying pan to the fire?

 

[gopher2008]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

While I have you player parents here in one spot...why do you think it is that women players do not seem to realize the need for their team to have "role players"? As has been pointed out, a players spot on a team is not protected yet how many of us men have been on teams where we had our Captain playing 3rd or 4th line, or maybe just PP or PK because that was "their role"? It just seems that women don't see the same aspect to the team.....

As a female hockey fan it pains me to do so, but I agree with you on this Zoofer...From my experience in both men's and women's hockey, I will say that I beleive women may have more difficulty embracing the lower profile roles. I don't mean to generalize, just simply summarizing my expierience...and I am not one hundred percent sure why it is this way....but I do have a couple theories..

First - the difference in guys relationships with each other compared to girls relationships with each other might be a factor. Guys are typically more upfront and abrupt with each other - its not as easy to get away with pouting or any self pity when people will tell you to your face what they think about it. Girls are a little more sensitive and we would rather bring up the topic when you can't hear us We are more likely to coddle the sad player, and less likely to say something like - you knew what you were getting into when you decided to play DI. That seems a bit harsh, but I think it holds some truth....

Second - maybe because of having hitting in mens, and having more skilled players from top to bottom on most rosters - there are more roles to be had. And more people can have different ways of contributing. In women's you seem to have your top six forwards (or less), top 4 D and then everyone else. You don't have your tough guys - and your PK players will often be similar to your PP players/top five-ish. Maybe it is easier to embrace a role when you aren't sharing that role with half the team....when it is more of a niche...

Or maybe the game still needs to develop quite a bit at the high school levels so all players that make Div I rosters aren't so used to being stars, and have actually experienced bench time before in their lives

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

All good points, but this is, I believe, BINGO.

Or maybe the game still needs to develop quite a bit at the high school levels so all players that make Div I rosters aren't so used to being stars, and have actually experienced bench time before in their lives

There are currently a good many programs whose first line and maybe a player or two on the second, log most of the ice time between regular shifts and special teams. The players that aren't as capable often spend a lot of time on the bench and their playing time is largely dependent on the top player's success. The "Stars" are used to playing all the roles. At once.

As the pool of D1- D3 capable players expands, there will be more role playing at the HS level and even though the top players may not have ever had to play a smaller role, they will be much more aware that there are different roles, and different ways of contributing to on ice success.

Of course every player dreams of being the best, but the shift has to be from expecting to be the best, to wanting, and trying to be the best, but understanding that they may be the best fit for a particular role within the team, not the best player on the ice.

 

[D2D]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Or maybe the game still needs to develop quite a bit at the high school levels so all players that make Div I rosters aren't so used to being stars, and have actually experienced bench time before in their lives

A key difference these days is that almost all male players go D1 AFTER having played a year or two at the Junior A level, which these days is EXTREMELY competitive. That in itself is a big step up for most, but it's an interim step. At that point many of these young men will come to realize that perhaps they're not quite the star that they were at the previous level.

Most D1 girls, on the other hand, go from their club, prep or high school (where they were the star or one of just a couple of very key players) directly to D1, and I believe this can require more of an adjustment in terms of accepting what's often a very different role than what they were accustomed to playing.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

While I have you player parents here in one spot...why do you think it is that women players do not seem to realize the need for their team to have "role players"? As has been pointed out, a players spot on a team is not protected yet how many of us men have been on teams where we had our Captain playing 3rd or 4th line, or maybe just PP or PK because that was "their role"? It just seems that women don't see the same aspect to the team.....

I have no problem with a role player. Actually I consider my daughter to be a role player. regular shifts kills penalties but no PP time. The problem is coaches for the top teams recruit the scorers make them promises and then once there at the school tell them they will be a forth line player or might not dress for games. The girls I mentioned are forwards who scored 40+ goals a season in high school and expect to be a stars in college. I just think it's a coaches responsibility to tell girls I see you as this type of player but of course you need to produce. If you don't come in ready you might have to fight for playing time. At the very least make the comment.

What happens is the last part is being left out because coaches want top players for they 3rd an 4th lines. Who wouldn't. 18 year old girls entering adult ages should be leveled with and I just feel they aren't. If a coach gives a player a full ride then I don't feel it matters. But if a coach is making a player pay 5,6 $10,000 after being told they will play a ton and be a top six player. I feel is wrong. Coaches will say I made a mistake. I know these girls i mentioned would be top line forwards on most D1 teams. That being said my daughter says they should suck it up!

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I want to add that as a parent of a player. I don't mind how much she plays. Just happy she's enjoying her college experience with her second family. If she didn't dress for games I'd get to talk to her more. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

The women's game is great. Refs let them play it's not about you...

 

[ARM]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

What happens is the last part is being left out because coaches want top players for they 3rd an 4th lines.

I think if the coaches were recruiting a player to skate on the 3rd or 4th line for four years, they may recruit a different type of player. What happens on the top teams is that they bring in players that they hope can develop into top line players during their careers. Erika Lawler was on the 3rd line as a rookie, and so was Brooke Ammerman. A girl has to understand that what the coach is telling her is a guess, not a promise. The coach can't afford to plug a rookie onto the top lines if it is apparent that a senior is more ready. A coach's first commitment has to be to the welfare of the team as a whole.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I just think it's a coaches responsibility to tell girls I see you as this type of player but of course you need to produce. If you don't come in ready you might have to fight for playing time. At the very least make the comment.

To make that known unmistakably by the coach is good protocol. At the same time it seems like something any player should understand and be prepared for on their own even if a coach neglects to make it clear. Failing to make it understood in advance not to be compared with deliberate fudging of the truth.

It sounds like your daughter has an excellent attitude and mindset for the competitive college hockey environment...and is a team player.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

As far a promises met goes....As someone said earlier, it is a two way street.

Always found that it is best to be honest with recruiters. They do talk to each other. If you are willing to place a school in your top three and make that verbal commitment to them, they will be able to make likewise commitment, if they are interested. Just be carefull, to only list three schools as your top three and not ten.

Remember that early in the game, all schools are after the same Top 50 players for their 1-2 recruits. If you are not part of that list, you may have to be patient, until those blue chippers start landing.

I don't reccommend players let recruiters or coaches know all of their top school choices. They do talk to each other. My daughter had 2 schools not pursue her and were told we heard you really liked these schools. She did get to play for her top choice. Most recruiters will ask what are your top 5 schools of choice. Be careful how you answer. Play the game.

Also I hate it when a player transfers. Just don't like it. Sometimes you have to suck it up. I heard that somewhere?

 

[zoofer]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Thanks everyone for your insights.....it might be a generalization, but like all steriotype, nothing is 100%...On the nosey OnMAA in your comment about learning how to BE a good teammate and the team dynamics imperative...I work in a female dominant work situation and while a couple of the women are young enough to have participated in sports, most did not, and therefore do not understand how team dynamics would alleviate a lot of issues.....gopher2008, I whole heartedly agree that a Mars/Venus situation is at play....thanks again to all....Cheers, Go Wildcats!

 

[Choot]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I am also a Parent of a freshman player.. I gotta say all the schools talked about icetime, playing situations etc. They all say that a recruit will "Play"..but they dont say which year..funny but true! In my daughters situation she has been patient and has made the most of her opportunities and earned every minute. I believe girls are flexible with accepting a role..but its us parents that have a problem with it. I live too far away to visit more that once a year so I have to trust what my daughter tells me. Other factors to consider are: that a Senior who kills penalties will always get the PK time...they should if they are effective, and they are done after the year. Also I think a recognized National program player probably gets more promises made to them..and these promises are usually kept because it might lead to a future recruit??? Correct me if this is a false statement.
Anyways...I have learned to relax and trust my daughter...just show up in shape and earn your ice..every dog has their day!

 

[Watson Rink]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Can't resist with this anecdote from a lacrosse "sideline buddy" (i.e. fellow parent). He was recruited by the legendary Bob Blackmun to be Dartmouth's "quarterback of the future." When he got to Hanover, however, the freshman coach informed him and his teammates that perhaps several of the quarterbacks might like to go out for safeties and cornerbacks inasmuch as they hadn't actually recruited any defensive backs that year, but they had recruited ....twelve....quarterbacks of the future....

Or this anecdote about a high school QB/placekicker at Gilman who excitedly told one of our Ds that the coach at Wake Forest had told him he was sure to be a "walkon" which the kid assumed meant he was going to be a "walkover" for the starting position....

 

[AggiesHockey]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

... Also I hate it when a player transfers. Just don't like it. Sometimes you have to suck it up. I heard that somewhere?

Going off to college is likely the biggest change in a young adult's life. The school she enrolled in Freshman year might not be the experience she had hoped for--or the coach had hoped for--for countless reasons. College should be a good fit academically, athletically, financially, and every other angle. If after a year or two, things didn't pan out at school A, there are a lot of other great schools out there. Regroup!

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

Going off to college is likely the biggest change in a young adult's life. The school she enrolled in Freshman year might not be the experience she had hoped for--or the coach had hoped for--for countless reasons. College should be a good fit academically, athletically, financially, and every other angle. If after a year or two, things didn't pan out at school A, there are a lot of other great schools out there. Regroup!

Good points.

I do think college should be a good fit academically, financially and I'll add socially. But I do feel athletics are a bonus. That being said I have stated I don't like it when a coach makes promises to young 16, 17, 18 year old girls without making sure he points out things might change if you're not playing as well as others. And should never guarantee playing time which they do and these young kids eat this up. I also feel coaches sometimes play god and don't or won't even give a girl the opportunity to prove herself. Early in the season it's the coach's duty to play as many kids as possible. Don't play favorites and give players the chance to show what they have. One or two shifts a period is not enough in my opinion. I'm talking of course of the top players coming in with strong promises of playing. I don't expect a walk on or a non scholarship player to play regular shift unless deserving.

I personally don't like transfers for athletic reasons. The players who plan to go east or for one year because they didn't get the offer they wanted and then transfer back because they can without penalty. Just don't feel this is fair to their current teammates. Of course if a person is miserable and needs to change schools to be happy of course do it. I would always let my daughter do what she wanted. Always! Even for athletics. Regroup is good if you really need it. Agree!

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

WCHFan, I hope you don't take this personally because I think you generally make good points and have good ideas...but your last post really just got me.

I also feel coaches sometimes play god and don't or won't even give a girl the opportunity to prove herself.

Really? Do you really think coaches enjoy telling kids that work hard all week that they don't get to get off the bench, or worse even dress on the weekends? It's not personal and I don't believe that coaches are going to sit a kid out for any kind of petty personal agenda.

I don't expect a walk on or a non scholarship player to play regular shift unless deserving.

Shouldn't any player be deserving before they get on the ice? Should even the best recruits be able to just show up and step on the ice without having to put in the work first?

Early in the season it's the coach's duty to play as many kids as possible. Don't play favorites and give players the chance to show what they have. One or two shifts a period is not enough in my opinion. I'm talking of course of the top players coming in with strong promises of playing.

Why? I really hate this mentality that so many parents in particular seem to have. Every player gets an opportunity to prove themselves and show what they have. In practice. Every day. All week long. Hard work comes before the reward and game time is not the time or place to show what you're capable of.

And playing favorites? Really? Coaches are tasked with, among other things, winning hockey games. And most of them are pretty competitive on their own anyways. They aren't going to jeopardize their chances to win, and possibly their chances to keep their job and provide for their families, because they think Janey is a nicer kid than Susie. You ask any coach and you know who their favorites are going to be? The kids that get it done. You know why? Because not only are they usually among the most skilled players, but they are also the ones with the best work ethic and attitude as well. So if in fact a coach is playing their "favorites" there's usually a pretty good reason for it. Playing favorites is a term you hear coming from the kids that don't get to play because they don't want to admit or believe that they are some or all of the following: A) Less talented B) Lazy C) Of weak mental constitution D) Unable or unwilling to buy-in

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Recruiting Promises - Kept and Not Kept

I didnt' say every player.


And your wrong it is a coaches responsibility to give TOP players who they recruited by telling them they would play and play a lot an opportunity to prove themselves. And yes coaches do have favorites whether it's seniors or alumni parents kids. It happens. Obvioulsy I can't mention names but I do know of at least 4 players personally who I'm positive were told things by top schools to get them to attend and give up better offers. Who are now being told they should just be happy to be there. Like I said we're talking about 16, 17 and 18 year old kids and they're being painted a pretty picture and it's actually a fake.

How about tell a player to keep working hard and that anything can happen. Be ready when your time comes. Not I see you as a 3 or 4th line player and how dare you question me. I believe these kids that are telling me these things. And how about you COACH these TOP players who you promised things so they aren't crushed and doubting themselves. When I coached. Especially with GIRLS. You need to build confidence even with top players as they've never experienced this before. Coach!

You mention lazy? How do you know these kids are lazy? These girls play year round and work hard year round. Shooting thousands of pucks, lifting weights etc. Not many D1 hockey players are lazy.

And yes! Coaches do play favorites and I believe hockey is a team sport where all 25 players make a difference and instead of playing the top six players how about give 3 or 4 line player a chance to play up when a star is struggling which will motivate them. It's called coaching EVERYONE. It's easy to coach a top team and sometimes in my opinion over coach by only playing their top six to eight.

These kids aren't lazy. They were made PROMISES. My original post was to Not make the open ended promises and level with girls and their parent the possibility she might not play if I don't feel she's good enough. It's called honesty!