Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

[OnMAA]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

ARM wrote:

"I'm a little worried because the Gophs only have four Canadians on the roster, and I've been told by a hockey expert that a team needs at least six to have a chance. "


Harvard likewise has only four Canadians, but it also has seven Minnesotans! That ought to count for something! BTW, what is the precise equivalency ratio between Canadians and Minnesotans? Not to stir up a hornet's net or anything....

Ontario slightly ahead of Minnesota, about twice as many Canucks as Minnesotans in D1....

Recruit class numbers to bear that out.
==============================
2005-2006 Total 211, USA - 129, Minnesota - 27, Canada - 79, Ontario - 36;
2006-2007 Total 198, USA - 129, Minnesota - 40, Canada - 62, Ontario - 29;
2007-2008 Total 165, USA - 095, Minnesota - 28, Canada - 66, Ontario - 29;
2008-2009 Total 213, USA - 118, Minnesota - 37, Canada - 89, Ontario - 38;
2009-2010 Total 213, USA - 119, Minnesota - 32, Canada - 87, Ontario - 52;
2010-2011 Total 209, USA - 115, Minnesota - 39, Canada - 90, Ontario - 57;
2011-2012 Total 220, USA - 132, Minnesota - 46, Canada - 75, Ontario - 37;
2012-2013 Total 234, USA - 134, Minnesota - 33, Canada - 89, Ontario - 52;

Recruit wise Ontario ahead of Minnesota every year except 2011-2012.
Ontario typically represents just over 50% of the Canadian Recruit class.
With the exception of 07-08, numbers are pretty consistent.
I could break down by US state, but would need to do a little more massaging of the spreadsheet.
Update my sheet once a year, in the summer to include the newest class.
Note that these numbers may miss the walk-ons.

* Data collected over years from a combination of HUX listings and the NC listings from the WKHY blogger.
.......(BTW, what happened to that page ?)

 

[ARM]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

But looking over vicb's list above, it's clear you'd see an awful lot of grit and defensive skill there (certainly the ones I've seen play this year). What is it about women's hockey that accounts for that?

In women's hockey coaches like to put their best defensive line against the other team's scoring line. In most cases, that means that the top offensive players have to defend as well, because they are usually out against talented opponents. In men's hockey, the coaches like to save the offensive stars and have defensive specialists and checking lines.

Some of the women's teams that have had success over the years have had a second or third line that was trusted out against all the other top lines, and those teams have usually done very well (e.g, Wisconsin 2006 or Minnesota 2013.)

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Give that all-star team a week to practice together before the game, and the Gophers beat em.

Give that all-star team an entire season to practice together, and well, it would depend on goal tending then. If Raty is for real, Gophers still win, but by a much closer margin. If not, then the All-Star teams depth would be the deciding factor, I believe.

Disagree. I think an All Star team from teams 2-8 will handily beat the Gophers. Just keep some line combo's or pairings from the same team or team USA or team Canada, and you would have four top lines that the Gophers would not have the depth to match up with.

You have the UND line with the LAM twins supplemented with Karvinen
You can have a BU line with Poulin and Menard on it
You can have a Harvard line with Dempsey and Fry on it
You can have a Cornell line with Jenner and Saulnier on it
You can have a BC line with Carpenter and Skarupa on it.
(and apologies if I forget some other great players here).

In a similar fashion you can have some great D pairings. Start with the Rougeau - Fortino combo...etc.

I think you get my drift.

 

[ARM]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Disagree. I think an All Star team from teams 2-8 will handily beat the Gophers. Just keep some line combo's or pairings from the same team or team USA or team Canada, and you would have four top lines that the Gophers would not have the depth to match up with.

You have the UND line with the LAM twins supplemented with Karvinen
You can have a BU line with Poulin and Menard on it
You can have a Harvard line with Dempsey and Fry on it
You can have a Cornell line with Jenner and Saulnier on it
You can have a BC line with Carpenter and Skarupa on it.
(and apologies if I forget some other great players here).

In a similar fashion you can have some great D pairings. Start with the Rougeau - Fortino combo...etc.

I think you get my drift.

I agree with you to an extent, definitely Minnesota can't go four lines deep, but the Minnesota D and goaltending would be right there with your All-Star team. Also, some of your lines don't really play together. These days, MLam plays D and Karvinen is on another line. Poulin skates with Kohanchuk and Lefort. And how many lines is your fantasy team dressing? I think the Gophs win that one by forfeit.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

I'd say close to 50-50 between Ontario and Minnesota, about twice as many Canucks as Minnesotans in D1....

Recruit class numbers to bear that out.
==============================
2005-2006 Total 211, USA - 129, Minnesota - 27, Canada - 79, Ontario - 36;
2006-2007 Total 198, USA - 129, Minnesota - 40, Canada - 62, Ontario - 29;
2007-2008 Total 165, USA - 095, Minnesota - 28, Canada - 66, Ontario - 29;
2008-2009 Total 213, USA - 118, Minnesota - 37, Canada - 89, Ontario - 38;
2009-2010 Total 213, USA - 119, Minnesota - 32, Canada - 87, Ontario - 52;
2010-2011 Total 209, USA - 115, Minnesota - 39, Canada - 90, Ontario - 57;
2011-2012 Total 220, USA - 132, Minnesota - 46, Canada - 75, Ontario - 37;
2012-2013 Total 232, USA - 221, Minnesota - 33, Canada - 85, Ontario - 50;

Seems like the math is off here..... 2012-2013 USA 221 Canada 85 is total of 306 ....? USA 121 maybe? But then there are 26 non North Americans...?

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Seems like the math is off here..... 2012-2013 USA 221 Canada 85 is total of 306 ....? USA 121 maybe? But then there are 26 non North Americans...?

Yup typos.....Total for 2012-2013 is 221, USA 123, Canada 86, rest international or no home state listed. Fixed original post

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

I agree with you to an extent, definitely Minnesota can't go four lines deep, but the Minnesota D and goaltending would be right there with your All-Star team. Also, some of your lines don't really play together. These days, MLam plays D and Karvinen is on another line. Poulin skates with Kohanchuk and Lefort. And how many lines is your fantasy team dressing? I think the Gophs win that one by forfeit.

I would probably create four pairings up front each pair set of players from the same team and supplement each pair with a star player from another team to complete the lines. Team would have 12 forwards ( 4 Lines ) and probably 6 D, maybe 8.

You could have the Lam's on same forward line, or play one on the same shift on D.

You are correct that on D there might not be as much of an advantage, although suspect that the 5th and 6th D on the All star team would be stronger than those on the Gophers.

The one area where the Gophers would have an advantage is in nets, and as we all know, that can sometimes be a great equalizer.

Still think four top lines would eventually create enough chances to win that match-up.

 

[ARM]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

You are correct that on D there might not be as much of an advantage, although suspect that the 5th and 6th D on the All star team would be stronger than those on the Gophers.

I don't know. Looking at the pairs that vicb put out, I'd stick with the Gophs. There really isn't a lot of drop off, and that's why the defensive numbers have been so strong all season. The other intangible is that if a team can come close to matching the talent on an all-star team, then the team has pride and commitment that you're never going to get on a thrown-together squad.

The best kind of debate -- one that can never be proven right or wrong.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Ontario slightly ahead of Minnesota, about twice as many Canucks as Minnesotans in D1....

Recruit class numbers to bear that out.
==============================
2005-2006 Total 211, USA - 129, Minnesota - 27, Canada - 79, Ontario - 36;
2006-2007 Total 198, USA - 129, Minnesota - 40, Canada - 62, Ontario - 29;
2007-2008 Total 165, USA - 095, Minnesota - 28, Canada - 66, Ontario - 29;
2008-2009 Total 213, USA - 118, Minnesota - 37, Canada - 89, Ontario - 38;
2009-2010 Total 213, USA - 119, Minnesota - 32, Canada - 87, Ontario - 52;
2010-2011 Total 209, USA - 115, Minnesota - 39, Canada - 90, Ontario - 57;
2011-2012 Total 220, USA - 132, Minnesota - 46, Canada - 75, Ontario - 37;
2012-2013 Total 234, USA - 134, Minnesota - 33, Canada - 89, Ontario - 52;

Recruit wise Ontario ahead of Minnesota every year except 2011-2012.
Ontario typically represents just over 50% of the Canadian Recruit class.
With the exception of 07-08, numbers are pretty consistent.
I could break down by US state, but would need to do a little more massaging of the spreadsheet.
Update my sheet once a year, in the summer to include the newest class.
Note that these numbers may miss the walk-ons.

* Data collected over years from a combination of HUX listings and the NC listings from the WKHY blogger.
.......(BTW, what happened to that page ?)

Fixed up my post for completeness.

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Even with the All-Star concept of all the forward line depth you still would like the chances of Minnesota's top line matched up up against any line you could put together from the other teams. Another aspect of Minnesota's defense that would create problems for the All-Star forwards is the size and reach that they have. Bozek is the smallest d height wise at 5'9".

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

What if the all star team was coached by Ditka?

 

[brookyone]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

How 'bout if we bring back the '80-'81 North Stars + Brian Bellows For a go at the Gophers? I could get my little "Dino" in the noose stuffed toy out again.

Sorry...perhaps a wise crack obscure to all except fellow old farts.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

How 'bout if we bring back the '80-'81 North Stars + Brian Bellows For a go at the Gophers? I could get my little "Dino" in the noose stuffed toy out again.

Sorry...perhaps a wise crack obscure to all except fellow old farts.

If I'm not mistaken, Dino was a rookie that year. Bobby Smith, of Ottawa 67's fame, was on that team as well.
Was that not the year that Minnesota knocked out the defending champs Canadiens in a bizarre series were all most all games were won on the road. ?

 

[ARM]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Was that not the year that Minnesota knocked out the defending champs Canadiens in a bizarre series were all most all games were won on the road. ?

That was 1979-80. In 1980-81, the North Stars knocked off the Bruins, Sabers, and Flames before getting thumped by the Islanders.

 

[D2D]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Sorry...perhaps a wise crack obscure to all except fellow old farts.

Nice to know your obscure wise crack wasn't directed at me!

And speaking of fellow old farts, were you able to get your senior-priced ticket for the game on Saturday? $4 for a NCAA quarterfinal game has to be the deal of the century!

 

[brookyone]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Nice to know your obscure wise crack wasn't directed at me!

And speaking of fellow old farts, were you able to get your senior-priced ticket for the game on Saturday? $4 for a NCAA quarterfinal game has to be the deal of the century!

Deal of the century is right. I bought a few to give to some friends...hoping to get them in the building.

And where ever he is...Butch Goring is still a hack!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Deal of the century is right. I bought a few to give to some friends...hoping to get them in the building.

And where ever he is...Butch Goring is still a hack!

I was under the impression your tickets are always free. (Based on some lengthy past debates)

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Butch Goring is still a hack!

Wrong from an Oiler's fan point of view. We always consider Billy "The Hack" Smith the Hacker, specially after the 1983 series.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

Wrong from an Oiler's fan point of view. We always consider Billy "The Hack" Smith the Hacker, specially after the 1983 series.

As a Red Wings fan, I refuse to believe that the years between 1966 and drafting Steve Yzerman really existed.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Preliminary & Ongoing Pairwise Watch and 2013 NCAA Tournament Musing Thread

I was under the impression your tickets are always free. (Based on some lengthy past debates)

Bought some for some others who were asking me if I thought they'd be able to buy at the door...wanting to make sure they would get in since they aren't regular attendees and expressed an interest.