POTUS 46.10: A New Hope

[Handyman]

The middle class doesn't care about $1000 checks. They care about their 401(k)s and homes holding their value, and maybe tuition debt relief.

Everyone I know is middle class...they absolutely care about checks. What are you going on about?

(or is this some sort of satire I aint getting)

I know middle class fiscal conservatives begging for UBI for anyone under 75K til this is over. A lot of the Middle Class is living on credit right now especially those making around where the GOP wants to cut off the checks at.

 

[rufus]

Is it really that hard to figure out who does and does not need a stimulus check? Like my company has stayed open- so regardless of status, you don't need a stimulus check. Whereas restaurants have had to close- so even the $500,000 owner could use a little help- as long as all of their workers are getting help (top to bottom). Same for cinemas and gyms.

It's not as if everyone is shut down.

While there will certainly be fraud- it's roughly the same system that unemployment is there for. Figure out who is declared, what degree, and check their 2019 1040.

But the "industries" themselves do not need help. The people who work in those industries do, including the owners.

So no more bailouts to industry, no more PPP programs, no more interest free loans. Just cut people checks.

And then raise the taxes on millionaires and corporations to get that back. The top 1% have made something like $600 billion during this pandemic. Time to pony up some of that to help out their fellow citizens. say its for the sake of 'unity'.

 

[rufus]

Kep's in the Beltway. By their definition, middle class are those making $500,000/year.

 

[aparch]

Kep's in the Beltway. By their definition, middle class are those making $500,000/year.

So his Middle Class doesn't care about the checks, because they're ineligible for the checks.

 

[JF_Gophers]

It would be nice if we had a better way to target the stimulus checks to the needy. The blanketing of checks is wasting money.

We dont need these stimulus checks. We still have our jobs. So its nice, but in no way necessary.

 

[MichVandal]

But the "industries" themselves do not need help. The people who work in those industries do, including the owners.

So no more bailouts to industry, no more PPP programs, no more interest free loans. Just cut people checks.

And then raise the taxes on millionaires and corporations to get that back. The top 1% have made something like $600 billion during this pandemic. Time to pony up some of that to help out their fellow citizens. say its for the sake of 'unity'.

Not yet. Hopefully them getting back on line will go well. We don't want the people who do work in the industries to become "did".

I agree on the no-bailouts, though- maybe extend some no-interest loans so that incentives.... We will see.

On the only suffering industry we have participated in- they are now giving some more benefits to cruisers out to Sept '22 now. That plan worked for the '08 crash and should work now.

It's pretty crazy that nobody is looking to the people who have more than flourished under this as a source of money. I get the impression sometimes that those 1% want their part of the stimulus, too. As if they would ever use it as intended.

 

[rufus]

It's pretty crazy that nobody is looking to the people who have more than flourished under this as a source of money. I get the impression sometimes that those 1% want their part of the stimulus, too. As if they would ever use it as intended.

They can never have enough money. Saw on twitter last week, one of the guys whining on CNBC or CNN last week about the Reddit GME play was a 77 year old hedge fund owner worth an estimated $3 billion.

How much do you need to be worth? If I was worth $3 billion, I certainly wouldn't be wrestling with business issues at the age of 77. I'd have been spending the last 40 years doing nothing except what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it. Give me $2 million tomorrow, and I'm never working another day in my life.

 

[MichVandal]

They can never have enough money. Saw on twitter last week, one of the guys whining on CNBC or CNN last week about the Reddit GME play was a 77 year old hedge fund owner worth an estimated $3 billion.

How much do you need to be worth? If I was worth $3 billion, I certainly wouldn't be wrestling with business issues at the age of 77. I'd have been spending the last 40 years doing nothing except what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it. Give me $2 million tomorrow, and I'm never working another day in my life.

I don't get some people. If I was given even $100M tomorrow, I would give quite a bit of it away, immediately.

 

[Kepler]

I don't get some people. If I was given even $100M tomorrow, I would give quite a bit of it away, immediately.

These people are creeps. It's no more complicated than that.

There's a reason financial firms look for sociopaths.

In a hundred years, billionaires will be regarded the way 18th century slaveholders are today. Selfishness and predation raised to the level of psychosis.

 

[LynahFan]

The middle class doesn't care about $1000 checks. They care about their 401(k)s and homes holding their value, and maybe tuition debt relief.

I get your point, but I would draw the line a little higher than just “middle class.” If I get a $1000 check, that’s worth $1000 to me. If enough people in my town get $1000 checks to keep the economy from cratering, that allows me to avoid a $200k loss on my house (and if enough people nationwide, then maybe a similar loss avoided in my retirement accounts).

Please don’t send me a check! Send it where it will do some good, i.e. increase the velocity of money flowing through the economy.

 

[ericredaxe]

The Republican plan screws half of the middle class out of stimulus checks...its a non-starter.

Why is it a non starter? Most couples earning $149k per year will get through this ok without a stimulus check.

I could absolutely see discussion about the cutoff point being a viable one.

To Kep’s point, to say they don’t care about checks probably isn’t accurate, but to set they will be ok without them probably is.

 

[Kepler]

Everyone I know is middle class...they absolutely care about checks.

Upon further review:

Here is the distribution of US net worth. (If you don't like their data take it up with the Fed.)

How do we want to define "middle class"?

I suggest two conceptual distributions of poor / middle / rich:

.33 / .33 / .33; middle class: 40k - 272k
.25 / .50 / .25; middle class: 14k - 429k

If you adopt the latter, then a 1k check is significant. I was thinking (vaguely) in terms of the former, but I can understand someone thinking in terms of the latter.

 

[Handyman]

Why is it a non starter? Most couples earning $149k per year will get through this ok without a stimulus check.

I could absolutely see discussion about the cutoff point being a viable one.

To Kep’s point, to say they don’t care about checks probably isn’t accurate, but to set they will be ok without them probably is.

75k/150k isnt the cutoff for the Republican counter plan that is Biden's Plan.

Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), one of the signers of the letter, said the GOP plan would lower those thresholds to $50,000 for individuals and $100,000 for couples. Instead of $1,400 checks, the GOP plan would propose $1,000 checks, according to Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.), another member of the group.

I am sorry that is just too low. If they want to cut lower than 75k fine but if you make 50k the barrier (and there is nothing I am seeing about any sort of prorating but I am sure there is some) a lot of people in the middle class will still struggle.

How much money does the Government waste of frivolous crap? How much wasted on PPP? Now all of a sudden the people don't need the money because...reasons?

If you want to talk about taking the minimum wage hike out or something to lower the cost I can see that (to me that doesn't really belong in this bill anyways) but cutting the thresholds for who gets checks is not smart for either party.

 

[Kepler]

Going down the interwebs rabbit hole I found this:

Could you survive in wealth?

1. I can read a menu in French, English, and another language
2. I have several favorite restaurants in different countries of the world
3. During the holidays, I know how to hire a decorator to identify appropriate themes and items with which to decorate the house
4. I know who my preferred financial advisor, legal firm, designer, domestic employment service, and hairdresser are
5. I have at least two residences which are staffed and maintained
6. I know how to ensure confidentiality and loyalty from my domestic staff
7. I have at least three "screens" that keep people with whom I do not wish to have contact from me
8. I fly my own plane or the company plane
9. I know how to enroll a child or my child in the preferred private schools
10. I know how to host the parties that "key" people attend
11. I am on the boards of at least two charities
12. I know the hidden rules of the Junior League
13. I have an artist that I support and buy his/her work
14. I know how to read a corporate financial statement and analyze my own financial statements

Could you survive in the middle class?

1. I know how to sign up an individual for Little League, piano lessons, soccer, etc
2. I know how to set a table properly
3. I know which stores are most likely to carry the clothing brands my family wears
4. I know the best brand names in clothing for myself
5. I know how to order in a nice restaurant
6. I know how to use a credit card, checking account, and savings account
7. I understand an annuity.the term life insurance, disability insurance, 20/80 medical insurance, house insurance, flood insurance, and replacement insurance
8. I will or do talk to my children about going to college
9. I know how to get one of the best interest rates on a new car loan
10. I understand the differences among the terms principal, interest, and escrow statements on a house payment
11. I know how to help a child with school homework and would not hesitate to call the school if there was a problem
12. I know how to decorate the house for different holidays
13. I know how to get a library card
14. I know how to use different tools in the garage
15. I repair items in my house immediately when they break or know how a repair service and call it when items break.

Could you survive in poverty?

1. I know which sections of town and which churches have the best rummage sales
2. I know which rummage sales have "bag sales" and when
3. I know which grocery stores' garbage bins can be accessed for throw away food
4. I know how to get someone out of jail
5. I know how to fight physically and can defend myself physically
6. I know how to get a gun even if I have a police record
7. I know how to keep my clothes from being stolen at the laundromat
8. I know what problems to look for in a used car
9. I know how to live without electricity and without a phone
10. I know how to use a knife as scissors
11. I can entertain a group of friends on my personality and my stories
12. I know how to live without a checking account or debit card
13. I know what to do when I don't have money to pay the bills
14. I know how to move in a one-half day
15. I know how to feed eight people for five days on $25 (185 SEK)
16. I know how to get a food card (electronic food stamps) or other means of accessing food under state funded welfare food program
17. I know where the free medical clinics are
18. I am very good at bartering and trading
19. I can live my life without a car

 

[mookie1995]

They can never have enough money. Saw on twitter last week, one of the guys whining on CNBC or CNN last week about the Reddit GME play was a 77 year old hedge fund owner worth an estimated $3 billion.

How much do you need to be worth? If I was worth $3 billion, I certainly wouldn't be wrestling with business issues at the age of 77. I'd have been spending the last 40 years doing nothing except what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it. Give me $2 million tomorrow, and I'm never working another day in my life.

mookie couldn’t not work.
give mookie nothing to do and he’s ready to scratch his eyeballs out

 

[Kepler]

mookie couldn’t not work.
give mookie nothing to do and he’s ready to scratch his eyeballs out

You can do my work if you want.

I have never had a job that didn't feel like a complete waste of time.

 

[ericredaxe]

75k/150k isnt the cutoff for the Republican counter plan that is Biden's Plan.

Correct, that is exactly my point. Most couples earning 149K per year will be ok without an additional 1400 check. So why can't that 150K cutoff line be a point of negotiation?

I am sorry that is just too low. If they want to cut lower than 75k fine but if you make 50k the barrier (and there is nothing I am seeing about any sort of prorating but I am sure there is some) a lot of people in the middle class will still struggle.

Some sort of pro-rating would be a good part of a negotiation.

How much money does the Government waste of frivolous crap? How much wasted on PPP? Now all of a sudden the people don't need the money because...reasons?

If you want to talk about taking the minimum wage hike out or something to lower the cost I can see that (to me that doesn't really belong in this bill anyways) but cutting the thresholds for who gets checks is not smart for either party.

Of course there is all kinds of Govt waste, but that isn't getting solved in this bill, and I agree the minimum wage should be a separate discussion from a COVID relief bill.

 

[rufus]

mookie couldn’t not work.
give mookie nothing to do and he’s ready to scratch his eyeballs out

There's lots of things one can "do" without being at work. Having money affords one the luxury to now do them.

And I just love how it was an economic imperative that the 1% get a $1.8 trillion tax cut, but we can't give $1400 to people making $75,000 because they " don't really need it"

 

[burd]

You can do my work if you want.

I have never had a job that didn't feel like a complete waste of time.

How about the work you do here spreading the Message? Vocation/avocation?

 

[Kepler]

How about the work you do here spreading the Message? Vocation/avocation?

That's not work. It's a selfless act of love.