POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

[MaizeRage]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

This country doesn't have a history of treating traitors well.

Michael: You’re building houses in Iraq? Do you know how they punish treason?

George: First time.

Michael: I’ve never heard of a second.

George: Oh, I’ve got the worst [bleep]ing attorneys.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Before we start fashioning Trump for leg irons, I too say let the process play itself out. If I were a Trump associate, I'd be less worried about the FBI recording me and more worried about the Russians doing it! Think about it. If Putin's goal is to destabilize the US, what better way than the help get your preferred candidate elected, and then bury him months later with selected leaks from conversations his closest aides had with Russian intelligence agents. Total chaos ensues.

lolwut? One has nothing to do with the other. Whether or not Putin had specific plans or was himself too caught, why would he want Trump out? Nothing is more chaotic than keeping Trump in place and not being removed in place of Pence.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Obvious statement is obvious. His own kid admitted years back that they do a disproportionately large volume of financing through Russia.




Oh. That's cute. We have seven years and fourty weeks of Trump to go with how the general public has gone lately. The last four year President was Bush Sr, but that followed eight years of Reagan.

The last four year President of the opposite party that flipped again the next election was Carter (bookended by Ford and Reagan). Eisenhower put in eight years while being bookended by Democrats.

So, other than Carter, the last four year fling with the opposite party before returning goes back to the expansionist era when Benjamin Harrison served in between two Grover Cleveland tours.


So the Dems need to get busy finding someone with the charisma of Trump, but with some sense of what the fu** their doing. Or we're in for the long haul with Trump.

And yet none of those presidents cost their coffers money.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Well, given how short of time we are into this administration, I'm not sure how you can expect instant work on it. How many years did the Hillary thing go on? It takes a lot of effort and proof to prosecute anyone, let alone a government official.

Time will tell.

One thing that don's guys keep pointing out- they have been recorded doing something.

And one of my points bears repeating- they are dumber than rocks if they did get recorded talking to Russians. Seriously- once don became the R's nominee, he did start to get intel briefings. I'd be pretty confident that he was informed that Russians were part of routine recording, as well as some suspicions that they were already involved in hacking the Democrats. If he didn't tell his people to keep their heads down in the face of that- I personally don't think they are qualified to run anything, as it's the most obvious thing not to do in a very long time.

Do we want people that stupid running things? I don't.

Fair enough, but history has certainly shown us that being stupid or acting so is not an impeachable offense on its own.

You do understand they dont need a smoking gun right? He wasnt supposed to be talking to them in the first place let alone giving them assurances that the sanctions against them would be lifted. (which we found out in the early leak) The smoking gun was the call itself.

If they didnt do anything wrong, why do they keep lying and stonewalling? Why did Flynn get fired? Why did the Justice Department warn them about what was going on? If there is nothing there why is everyone acting like something is there?

Nice dodge of the Hillary question though...

The call itself? The call itself is not illegal. And good luck with prosecuting Flynn on the Logan Act for discussing sanctions. Although I suppose it could be part of what Flynn is worried about. Plus maybe his Turkey deal.(more likely) Probable that Flynn was axed because they couldn't let him undermine Pence. Or they just didn't trust him or believe his explanation for his failure to state he discussed sanctions with the Russians. Yates warned Pence that Flynn was on tape discussing sanctions when Pence categorically denied he did. Yates has said she felt this could open Flynn up to blackmail, because obviously the Russkis record their own conversations as well.

But again, everyone with knowledge of the content of Flynn's conversations has said there is nothing there. What you want is evidence of some Trumper's collusion, not a conversation about their jobs. Logically that would start by at least last summer. Every Russian of note is monitored, and yet we have nothing of substance to go on yet. That doesn't look good to me.

The only real opinion I have held on Hils emails is that one year before the election I said it was never going away. It was much to easy to exploit politically.

Watergate took two years to resolve. Two ****ing years. How long do you think borderline sedition is going to take to prosecute? THis isn't Law & Order where everything is wrapped up in a nice little package with a red bow in one 42-minute segment.

This is going to take years to sort out. We're talking nations and billionaires who have vast networks of shell corporations, travel across the world that needs to be sorted out, calls from every corner of Washington and every stop along the way in the primaries. The amount of data they need to parse is going to fill the Library of Congress.

Also unlike Law & Order, you don't bring a case until you find where the buck stops. You don't have a single bad actor (not in the thespian sense of the word) in this case. It's potentially dozens or hundreds of people.

With Watergate you had the break-in which was the crime. The actual burglars plus Liddy and Hunt who directed them, were all indicted in less than 90 days. Liddy was general counsel on Nixon's campaign committee and less than a week after the break-in, Mark Feltz (Deep Throat) had already told Woodward and Bernstein not only that Hunt was involved, but that Hunt was directly connected to WH counsel Colsten. The only question then was how far up it went in the WH, not IF it was connected to the WH. Feltz gave several reports to W&B, the last was only 6 months after the break in. True, it did take another year and a half to finish it and connect it all to Nixon himself, but it was all there early on.

Here you have yet to even find evidence of a crime as much as 9 months after it allegedly began. The crime isn't the Russian hacking. That on it's own is irrelevant as far as Trump goes. The crime would be collusion of some sort. I'm not even entirely sure what it would be. It seems the only logical thing would be the Russians actually telling Trump they could help him in exchange for some quid pro quo. That is what I'm looking for.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Fair enough, but history has certainly shown us that being stupid or acting so is not an impeachable offense on its own.



The call itself? The call itself is not illegal. And good luck with prosecuting Flynn on the Logan Act for discussing sanctions. Although I suppose it could be part of what Flynn is worried about. Plus maybe his Turkey deal.(more likely) Probable that Flynn was axed because they couldn't let him undermine Pence. Or they just didn't trust him or believe his explanation for his failure to state he discussed sanctions with the Russians. Yates warned Pence that Flynn was on tape discussing sanctions when Pence categorically denied he did. Yates has said she felt this could open Flynn up to blackmail, because obviously the Russkis record their own conversations as well.

But again, everyone with knowledge of the content of Flynn's conversations has said there is nothing there. What you want is evidence of some Trumper's collusion, not a conversation about their jobs. Logically that would start by at least last summer. Every Russian of note is monitored, and yet we have nothing of substance to go on yet. That doesn't look good to me.

The only real opinion I have held on Hils emails is that one year before the election I said it was never going away. It was much to easy to exploit politically.



With Watergate you had the break-in which was the crime. The actual burglars plus Liddy and Hunt who directed them, were all indicted in less than 90 days. Liddy was general counsel on Nixon's campaign committee and less than a week after the break-in, Mark Feltz (Deep Throat) had already told Woodward and Bernstein not only that Hunt was involved, but that Hunt was directly connected to WH counsel Colsten. The only question then was how far up it went in the WH, not IF it was connected to the WH. Feltz gave several reports to W&B, the last was only 6 months after the break in. True, it did take another year and a half to finish it and connect it all to Nixon himself, but it was all there early on.

Here you have yet to even find evidence of a crime as much as 9 months after it allegedly began. The crime isn't the Russian hacking. That on it's own is irrelevant as far as Trump goes. The crime would be collusion of some sort. I'm not even entirely sure what it would be. It seems the only logical thing would be the Russians actually telling Trump they could help him in exchange for some quid pro quo. That is what I'm looking for.

Yes, thank you for the history lesson. We're barely 60 days into this and people are already asking for immunity.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Yes, thank you for the history lesson. We're barely 60 days into this and people are already asking for immunity.

60 Days? So you figure the Ruskis hack the Dems, do all that wiki leaks stuff, etc., and then two months ago go to Trump and say "What are you going to do for us?"

That's not how it works in my neighborhood.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Something is fishy, no matter how you slice it. So let's say he's not colluding with Putin, but instead has multiple business ties to the Russian Mafia, and/or various Russian oligarchs. How is that better?

 

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Yes, thank you for the history lesson. We're barely 60 days into this and people are already asking for immunity.

didn't he ask for immunity? blanket. not just for something he's done in the past 60, 90, 180, 360 days.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Something is fishy, no matter how you slice it. So let's say he's not colluding with Putin, but instead has multiple business ties to the Russian Mafia, and/or various Russian oligarchs. How is that better?

Cause it isnt Hillary duh.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

But again, everyone with knowledge of the content of Flynn's conversations has said there is nothing there. What you want is evidence of some Trumper's collusion, not a conversation about their jobs. Logically that would start by at least last summer. Every Russian of note is monitored, and yet we have nothing of substance to go on yet. That doesn't look good to me.

Here's a possible and very simple explanation for you. To sum it up:

...the FBI declined to inform the U.S. public about ties between Trump and the Russian government for fear of exposing informants and “[jeopardizing] a long-running, ultra-sensitive operation targeting mobsters tied to Russian President Vladimir Putin — and to Trump.”

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

60 Days? So you figure the Ruskis hack the Dems, do all that wiki leaks stuff, etc., and then two months ago go to Trump and say "What are you going to do for us?"

That's not how it works in my neighborhood.

I have no idea what you're even blathering about in this post.

You have a lot of Tom Clancy-like plots unfolding in your neighborhood? Things that happen on the timescales these things take?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

didn't he ask for immunity? blanket. not just for something he's done in the past 60, 90, 180, 360 days.

Could be. But you don't ask for immunity if you've done nothing wrong, right?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Something is fishy, no matter how you slice it. So let's say he's not colluding with Putin, but instead has multiple business ties to the Russian Mafia, and/or various Russian oligarchs. How is that better?

If that's the case, Putin is already involved and likely has trump's balls in a vice. Nothing goes on in that country without the shirtless wonder getting a cut. There's a reason he went from an operative to one of the richest men on earth.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Could be. But you don't ask for immunity if you've done nothing wrong, right?

you got it

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

The moment he starts costing the Kochs money or he starts costing the GOP seats in the House and Senate is the second before they hit the submit button on articles of impeachment.

Isn't that what I said?

Trump could quite literally say or do anything, and unless republican members of the house and senate fear losing an election in 2018, he's not going anywhere. Mark it down.

 

[burd]

Hard to fix the ideologically stupid. When you're out in the middle of nowhere and you live in the Rush/Faux News echo chamber this is what you end up with.

And I think there are studies showing that people can rationalize being in a worse position themselves if they can be convinced that THOSE people are worse off than they were before.

 

[burd]

Hard to fix the ideologically stupid. When you're out in the middle of nowhere and you live in the Rush/Faux News echo chamber this is what you end up with.

And I think there are studies showing that people can rationalize being in a worse position themselves if they can be convinced that THOSE people are worse off than they were before.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

You can say that again!

 

[burd]

You can say that again!

What a jerk

 

[burd]

What a jerk

What a jerk