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POTUS 45.65: I'm Just Here For The Lincoln Project Ads

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Kepler said:
Which part?

Are you still clinging to the 1990's liberal myth of capturing the Center?

The center is just a mathematical point, balancing two huge bubbles to the Left and the Far, Far Right. There are no people there. It's a fiction driven by wealthy Democratic donors who want to keep all the economic perks they have hoarded since Reagan (really since JFK) by doubling down on Left social positions, to co-opt the opposition to the Nazis and make sure our movement is defanged on fiscal policy.

Embrace the real Left if you want to live. The NYT Left is a death trap.
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So people like me (Pro-LGBTQ, but Pro-2A) don't exist?

On a true political spectrum, I'm probably just a bit right of a true center.

I just realize that in today's situation an R-vote is a horrible choice when compared to the other side. I'm smart enough to realize that.

But I'm not gonna ever embrace a full-on Dark Brandon philosophy.
 
RaceBoarder said:
So people like me (Pro-LGBTQ, but Pro-2A) don't exist?
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OK, I see the issue, we're talking past each other. Maybe this is true of my conversations with Handy, too.

I'm not saying there aren't "2 from column A, 3 from column B" people, like you. There are lots of those people. When I say The Mythical Center I'm talking about people who have a wishy-washy view on issues relative to the parties. I don't think these people exist, not because there are no people with moderate views but because the Far Right has made compromise with them impossible. We know they are fascists, so the only people are either those who are going to fight them even though they sometimes disagree on policy with the Dem nominee, or those who are either in denial or ignorance and think sometimes it's okay to indulge their preference on an issue (like 2A) and empower fascists.

My point is there is no halfway position between fascism and anti-fascism. You are either one or the other. If you vote fascist on a particular issue because it's your issue, you're supporting fascists, full stop. The "Center position" of sometimes supporting the GOP just means you aren't doing all you can to stop them. You may not be a fascist, but you still suck.

And please, please don't conflate Biden Dems with the Left. Biden Dems are decently Left on social and on the centerline on economic. Nixon was farther left on economics than Biden Dems. There is a world of people like me for whom Biden Dems are so far to the relative right on economics they are nearly indistinguishable from Paul Ryan.
 
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Kepler said:
Which part?

Are you still clinging to the 1990's liberal myth of capturing the Center?

The center is just a mathematical point, balancing two huge bubbles to the Left and the Far, Far Right. There are no people there. It's a fiction driven by wealthy Democratic donors who want to keep all the economic perks they have hoarded since Reagan (really, since JFK) by doubling down on Left social positions, to co-opt the opposition to the Nazis and make sure our movement is defanged on fiscal policy.

Embrace the real Left if you want to live. The NYT Left is a death trap.
Click to expand...

Literally all of it. Either you never talk to real people or everyone you know is fringe. Either way maybe branch out cause you sound dumber than a Faux News host when you say that stuff.

If the Center didn't exist, candidates like Biden would never win.

For someone who loves to throw a tantrum anytime anyone dares mock (now unemployed) Nate Silver because of math, you seem to ignore math when it suits your point. The middle part of the spectrum (left-center, center, right-center) is the majority. You ever wonder why Trump polls in the 30s? Hint: it isn't because 70% think AOC and Bernie are the way. (Hence why Bernie lost) It's because he owns the Right Fringe. The Right Center went Never Trump and ended up out of the party. Same hola true for the Far Left portion of the Dems. (Again hence Biden)

I know certain aspects of the media like to pretend the loudest voices are the majority bur anyone who actually talks to people knows that is crap.

edit: your next post proved my point. People aren't wishy washy on issues? Have you met people? The average person is wishy washy on everything. Now you sound like Bill Maher.
 
Kepler said:
OK, I see the issue, we're talking past each other. Maybe this is true of my conservations with Handy, too.

I'm not saying there aren't "2 from column A, 3 from column B" people, like you. There are lots of those people. When I say The Mythical Center I'm talking about people who have a wishy-washy view on issues relative to the parties. I don't think these people exist, not because there are no people with moderate views but because the Far Right has made compromise with them impossible. We know they are fascists, so the only people are either those who are going to fight them even though they sometimes disagree on policy with the Dem nominee, or those who are either in denial or ignorance and think sometimes it's okay to indulge their preference on an issue (like 2A) and empower fascists.

My point is there is no halfway position between fascism and anti-fascism. You are either one or the other. If you vote fascist on a particular issue because it's your issue, you're supporting fascists, full stop. The "Center position" of sometimes supporting the GOP just means you aren't doing all you can to stop them. You may not be a fascist, but you still suck.

And please, please don't conflate Biden Dems with the Left. Biden Dems are decently Left on social and right dead on the centerline on economic. Nixon was farther left on economics than Biden Dems. There is a world of people like me for whom Biden Dema are so far to the relative right on economics they are nearly indistinguishable from Paul Ryan.
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Yes, it's a simple Yes/No answer with Facism. But if the Dems went to the same extreme with the Left, people would call it out as well.

You and MissT come to mind with some of the stuff you post sometimes. You do act like MAGAs, but with a Left orientation.
 
RaceBoarder said:
So people like me (Pro-LGBTQ, but Pro-2A) don't exist?

On a true political spectrum, I'm probably just a bit right of a true center.

I just realize that in today's situation an R-vote is a horrible choice when compared to the other side. I'm smart enough to realize that.

But I'm not gonna ever embrace a full-on Dark Brandon philosophy.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing, I'm pro 2A, too. The real question is to what degree. If you are for all guns all the time under all circumstances, including unlimited carry, that's not nearly the same as wanting universal and solid background checks and isn't the same as ones who would like to see restrictions to the ability of arms to put off lots of rounds quickly and repeatedly.

Just being Pro 2A does not put you in the "center" as that really just assumes that it's a black and white argument and anyone left of you wants to ban all guns. We know that's not right nor accurate. For all of the fear mongering, nobody has realistically brought up a proposal to eliminate the 2A. It's an issue that the right used to galvanize support for single issue voters that the far right really needs.

Let alone how some pro 2A people really want to protect their environment to hunt and enjoy in- which is another issue that people like to make out as black and white. I'm sure there are a bunch of Pro2A people who want to restrain mining and logging.
 
Yeah, I’m not getting it either, Kep. If Trump only gets 40% and nobody is in the middle, then generic Democrat should win 60-40.

The 2 from column A 3 from B crowd may not strictly be “centrists” - they may have extreme views on all 5 of those issues. The point is that they can/do change their votes, depending on the relative importance they assign to their 5 issues. That weighting changes over time, and so do their votes. For example, if they’re left on abortion, I bet they’re assigning a whole lot more importance to that now than they used to.

It seems like you’re just going down a Scotsman’s rabbit hole: “No TRUE centrist would ever vote Republican.”
 
LynahFan said:
It seems like you’re just going down a Scotsman’s rabbit hole: “No TRUE centrist would ever vote Republican.”
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Maybe. I'll think more about it.

I think the reason we're 60/40 but they win half the time is (1) gerrymandering/bribery by wealthy interests, (2) voter intimidation and disenfranchisement by Nazis,(3) the EC sucks and needs to burned to the ground, and (4) tons of people who have a foot in each camp do delude themselves and vote for their selfish interest at the cost of allowing the Nazis to get a hold. 2A and abortion being the most obvious examples.

If I voted my desire on economic I would always vote for some crazy third party and cost the Dems one vote. I don't because it's more important to me to stop the Nazis than for me to get what I want.
 
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Come 2024, the so called "right center" are going to vote for Trump, just like they did in 2016, and 2020.
 
Handyman said:
If the Center didn't exist, candidates like Biden would never win.
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The reason this is wrong is simple: I voted for Biden and will do so again.

The rest of your post is just your usual personal vitriol. Sorry you are so threatened.
 
MichVandal said:
Here's the thing, I'm pro 2A, too. The real question is to what degree.
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Precisely. This is why all efforts to somehow categorize people or fit them into some Cartesian voting plane is silly.

Not only do you have situations where someone can be supportive of pro-choice or LGBTQ rights and also be pro- 2A or economically conservative, seemingly incongruous political positions to people like Kep, but you have the entire spectrum of degrees of those various issues.
 
Handyman said:
If the Center didn't exist, candidates like Biden would never win.
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The only reason Biden won was because of who his opponent was. The vast, well, not so vast, cause he still got 70 million+ votes, majority of voters could not stand the man. Doesn't mean they were in the center though.

Same reason Trump won in 2016, cause of who his opponent was. Lots of people were never going to vote for her. Doesn't mean they're part of the center, though.

Any other Republican runs against Biden, they probably would have won. Any other Dem ran against Trump in 2016, they probably would have would have won.

Lots of people say they're in the center, just cause they don't want to be identified as either right or left. But they're never going to support the policies of the other side. Take Drew for example.
 
rufus said:
The only reason Biden won was because of who his opponent was. The vast, well, not so vast, cause he still got 70 million+ votes, majority of voters could not stand the man. Doesn't mean they were in the center though.

Same reason Trump won in 2016, cause of who his opponent was. Lots of people were never going to vote for her. Doesn't mean they're part of the center, though.

Any other Republican runs against Biden, they probably would have won. Any other Dem ran against Trump in 2016, they probably would have would have won.

Lots of people say they're in the center, just cause they don't want to be identified as either right or left. But they're never going to support the policies of the other side. Take Drew for example.
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So Biden won the Democratic Primary because of Trump? Interesting..

Biden was the nominee because of the people you and Kepler pretend don't exist. If they didn't a Progressive or Lefty wins. This isn't hard...
 
He won the Democratic primary because people like Kepler and I made the conscious decision that bland, easy-going Grandpa Joe had the best shot at beating Trump instead of someone Donnie could demonize and label a Commie or Anarchist or Antifa.

See, we can set aside our personal biases and agendas for the greater good.
 
I still think Biden has the power to seize the debt and by executive order pay it under a national emergency declaration. What the GOP is doing is just reckless blackmail to crash the economy. Let them sue Biden. I can guarantee that the public will agree with Biden over Congress
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https://twitter.com/FoundersFollows/status/1654208481698910214

I think this is worth a shot. At this point with all the power they gave Trump, Biden may as well use some of it.
 
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