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POTUS 45.65: I'm Just Here For The Lincoln Project Ads

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unofan said:
There's no loss column, but there are W's to be had outside of head to head matchups. If Team Y beats Team Z, Team Y gains a half game on Team X.

To steal from your analogy,

T's preferences are Z>X>Y. Were a gun held to his head, he would vote for X over Y.

Y leads by one vote. If T votes for Z (or abstains), Y wins. If T votes for X, it's a tie. By voting for Z (or abstaining), he hurts X and helps Y. Not as much as voting for Y would've done, but enough to change the election.

Put another way:
An Obama-Trump voter essentially acts as a -1 to the Dems and a +1 to the GOP.
An Obama-Stein voter, or an Obama-no vote, is still a -1 to the Dems but a +0 to the GOP, having half the effect of the Obama-Trump voter.

Put a 3rd way:

There will be around 130,000,000 votes cast this fall for President. Every vote Biden or Trump gets is not only a +1 in their column, but a vote the other guy cannot get. A 3rd party voter is still a vote the other guy cannot get, but is also one that their preferred candidate of the 2 major parties does not get. By not giving his preferred major party candidate that vote, he's helping out the other side half as much as someone who votes for the other side.
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The problem with your logic is that it pertains to IRV but the US currently utilizes a plurality system. In a plurality vote, the voter's second choice does not matter at all.

The third party voter's preference of T>D>R versus T>R>D is of paramount importance in IRV. The third party voter could be potentially voting for D or R depending on said ranking. (Let's be honest, if we were to utilize this type of system, in most, if not all elections, they would be voting for D or R.) However, in a plurality system their vote for T will always be for T and not for D or R (T = +1, D = +0, R = +0) regardless of their preference of D vs. R. While voting third party can certainly affect the outcome of the vote, the effect to the other parties (however you choose to perceive it, positive or negative) is equal. Please see my previous post for the mathematical explanation. If you would like to propose switching to Instant Runoff Voting, I'm behind you. It would make my voting decisions much, much easier (See 2016). I do however worry that the voters who had a difficult time with the butterfly ballots will be overwhelmed by this concept.

Also, voting is an additive process. There is no such thing as a "-1 vote"(which is why your baseball standings analogy falls short). Calling a Obama->Trump/Bush->Obama/Obama->Stein/Obama->no vote a "-1 vote" assumes Party ownership of said vote. While I can't speak for others, my vote is just that, MINE. Not some party's. They are required to earn it from me. (Assuming that those votes were her property is one of the main reasons HRC won my state and became the first women president. Oh wait...) However... I'd love to see Dump's vote tally if we could vote -1: Biden 2, Trump -72,999,998.

Thanks for explaining your point of view. I still disagree that it is applicable in a plurality system but at least I now better understand what you are saying.
 
busterman62 said:
However, in a plurality system their vote for T will always be for T and not for D or R (T = +1, D = +0, R = +0) regardless of their preference of D vs. R.
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If you don't believe that there are T voters who make the strategic choice to vote R or D instead of T in the poll booth, then I can't help you. People vote for their second or even third choice all the time, it's just not recorded as such.
 
Jesus f-ck, are people still trying to explain this to him?

He's either insincere or stupid. Let it go.
 
Since nothing else is going on with schools at the moment...Trump is having the Department of Education make sure that California isnt using the 1619 Project in its classrooms. It is about time I know I was worried...
 
Kepler said:
As ridiculous as that is it beats a vote for Dump.

Can you talk to your Mom at all about stuff like this?
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We went through this 4 years ago - I had to explain to her in October why she shouldn't vote for Dr. Yulia Steinlovich ;-). I didn't find out about my dad's vote for Johnson until after it was too late to change his mind about the phony Clinton Foundation "scandal" and Hillary's buttery males.
 
aparch said:
Oh my God.

Trump supporters are those people who are abused by their significant others, and every time they get a black eye, they come crawling back because "he said he wouldn't do it again!"
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Battered voter syndrome?
 
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