POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">i'm the person republicans are talking about. i own a hundred iphones and my body is dying. i refuse to buy healthcare. get me another phone</p>— leon (@leyawn) <a href="https://twitter.com/leyawn/status/839193526965526533">March 7, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Was it really from Russia, or does the Hombre project only want you to THINK it comes from Russia? Thanks to the revelations from Vault 7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCWZsF-ilqc

 

[unofan]

So you are ok with people gaming the system? Got it.

Personally this is one of the things I like about the individual mandate.... It is at least an attempt to force some personal responsibility.

No, we're just not willing to fark over 100 others to make sure one person didn't game the system.

In another context, we believe it's better to let 100 guilty men go free than imprison an innocent man. You seen to think it's better to imprison 100 innocent people to make sure no guilty man goes free.

 

[unofan]

Heck, she had someone show up the other day to get "free" prescription Ibuprofen, because their back was sore and "couldn't afford" to go to the store and buy it over the counter.

So the rest of the system pays for an ER visit etc, for a problem that could have been solved with a $6 bottle of Advil.

In fairness, I've gotten a prescription for ibuprofen before because over the counter meds can only be charged to a flexible sending account with a prescription. I didn't make a separate appointment for that, but while I was there getting xrays anyway...

 

[unofan]

If it is less than 1%, present such a study or S T F U.

As mentioned, get a job for a while in your local ER and witness it for yourself... Or maybe it is easier to rattle off made up <1% statistics while burying you head in the sand and pretending stuff like this never happens.

Meanwhile it is nice to know that you support "free" stuff for anyone who "can't afford it", yet stands outside puffing down their $10 / pack cigarettes while waiting for it.

Personally I think it's nuts if someone does not support the individual mandate... Sometimes you have to force people to take some personal responsibility.

GFY. I handled civil rights complaints for 5 years, and my wife is a public defender. I know all about people gaming the system.

I just care more about the people who aren't gaming the system and need the help.

And who on here is arguing against the mandate? It's your GOP brethren who hate that.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

RIP Michael Hastings. https://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-...ing-to-carry-out-undetectable-assassinations/

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Franken Continues to Go After Sessions

Brent look at the name of the guy who wrote the article...who knew Grey was so political

He obviously spends too much time around DX...

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

So you are ok with people gaming the system? Got it.

Posit the following. There are two types of error: false positives and false negatives. False positives are people the system deems needing of assistance who actually don't: those who game the system knowingly or not. False negatives are people the system ought to cover but doesn't: those who fall through the cracks or fail the criteria despite being in need.

Posit the following. There are two types of people: those who worry most about false positives and those who worry most about false negatives. For example, I worry most about false negatives: I am willing to accept people gaming the system in order that everyone who needs it be covered.

The panhandler problem is a case study. I have a co-worker who when I give to a panhandler says "do you worry that he's just scamming?" Honestly, no, I don't. I'm aware there is a probability that I'm being taken advantage of, but I would rather be scammed than deny help to somebody who needs it. I recognize that about half the population seems to be wired the other way, and thinks the risk of being scammed outweighs the risk of denying needed help.

I think these two types of people correlate highly with whether one is liberal or conservative. We probably need both for a functioning society.

 

[ericredaxe]

GFY. I handled civil rights complaints for 5 years, and my wife is a public defender. I know all about people gaming the system.

I just care more about the people who aren't gaming the system and need the help.

And who on here is arguing against the mandate? It's your GOP brethren who hate that.

You can GFY too. Maybe you are too challenged not to have read back the many political threads to see that, for the most part, I support the ACA. But at the same time I'm not OK with people gaming the system thus taking advantage of (effectively stealing from) those of us who play the game by the rules while seeing our premiums increase by double digits year after year.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

If it is less than 1%, present such a study or S T F U.

Jesus christ you cant even read...just like your hero Gary Johnson. (the word IF is a clue)

Whatever you have your anecdotal evidence and you are going to stick with it.

 

[geezer]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Have you guys covered this? (Sad! That this site is my best source of news but) Tim Kaine's son arrested for rioting in Mpls... something to do with a Trump rally setting off fireworks in the capitol. Story was not clear if he was with, opposed, or trying to frame the marchers?
Kep, your analysis of beggar trust level correlation to politics is dead on, something I've witnessed with my 2 opposing extremist coworkers several times.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

If it is less than 1%, present such a study or S T F U.

As mentioned, get a job for a while in your local ER and witness it for yourself... Or maybe it is easier to rattle off made up <1% statistics while burying you head in the sand and pretending stuff like this never happens.

Meanwhile it is nice to know that you support "free" stuff for anyone who "can't afford it", yet stands outside puffing down their $10 / pack cigarettes while waiting for it.

Personally I think it's nuts if someone does not support the individual mandate... Sometimes you have to force people to take some personal responsibility.

Do, please, bear in mind that you see a high percentage of people trying to game the system. Realistically, you have no idea how many people who need something DO get it themselves- you just see the ones trying to game the system.

It's like when I put the TP paper on wrong- my wife thinks I do it all the time, but I have to point out that she only sees the time I do it wrong- the rest of the time, she never notices.

Given the population, it is quite possible that you do only see the 1%. You also need to find the study that shows that it's over 1% just as much as someone needs to show that it's <1%.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

You can GFY too. Maybe you are too challenged not to have read back the many political threads to see that, for the most part, I support the ACA. But at the same time I'm not OK with people gaming the system thus taking advantage of (effectively stealing from) those of us who play the game by the rules while seeing our premiums increase by double digits year after year.

Again with the lack of reading comprehension. Your little tirades are laughable and misguided since literally no one here is in favor of people gaming the system. The only one challenged here is you because you are reading things that just arent there.

We understand some will take advantage, some ALWAYS take advantage. There is no way to prevent it without causing harm to others. We choose to help the whole and risk it. Chaffetz would sooner screw over the whole group to make sure no one even tries. (because Chaffetz doesnt care about people ESPECIALLY poor people)

The only one who needs to read back is you. You wont, and that is fine but dont put words in our mouth mmkay. You and your ilk are why we are here anyways.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Have you guys covered this? (Sad! That this site is my best source of news but) Tim Kaine's son arrested for rioting in Mpls... something to do with a Trump rally setting off fireworks in the capitol. Story was not clear if he was with, opposed, or trying to frame the marchers?
Kep, your analysis of beggar trust level correlation to politics is dead on, something I've witnessed with my 2 opposing extremist coworkers several times.

I just read that...what an idiot. Let them have their little rally no need to protest 400 people (estimated number according to the cops) who want to talk about Trump.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Have you guys covered this? (Sad! That this site is my best source of news but) Tim Kaine's son arrested for rioting in Mpls... something to do with a Trump rally setting off fireworks in the capitol. Story was not clear if he was with, opposed, or trying to frame the marchers?
Kep, your analysis of beggar trust level correlation to politics is dead on, something I've witnessed with my 2 opposing extremist coworkers several times.

So four people and potentially Kaine (though still investigating) actually lighting fireworks in the Capitol... Y'all wanted that stuff banned, so you're getting exactly what you asked for. I'll look past the potential trumped-up "resisting arrest", though.

Here's the original article: http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/ne...efully-arrested-trump-rally-minnesota-capitol

Outnumbered 8:1 in a blue state... so much for the outstanding disdain some of the left is trying to push...

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Again with the lack of reading comprehension. Your little tirades are laughable and misguided since literally no one here is in favor of people gaming the system. The only one challenged here is you because you are reading things that just arent there.

We understand some will take advantage, some ALWAYS take advantage. There is no way to prevent it without causing harm to others. We choose to help the whole and risk it. Chaffetz would sooner screw over the whole group to make sure no one even tries. (because Chaffetz doesnt care about people ESPECIALLY poor people)

The only one who needs to read back is you. You wont, and that is fine but dont put words in our mouth mmkay. You and your ilk are why we are here anyways.

Ironically, the same argument can be said about terrorists and actual refugees that need help.

A few years ago, we met a young guy from Iran. Nice guy- all he wanted was to live happy.

Given the reality of people, it's far more likely that 95-99% of the public are good people, it's the last 1-5% that are total POSs (and a smaller percentage are willing to take up arms to be POS's).

What is the population of Iraq and Syria where iSIS is compared to the LOCALS that willingly joined up- I bet it's a pretty small amount.

Instead of keeping a good job vetting people and preventing the 1% from getting here, we prevent the other 99% of help they need.

Just like any handout is bad for the 99% (Medicare, food stamps, welfare) because a small number of them are getting luxury items or gaming the system. That's the #1 issue with helping people on the r side.

Funny thing is- they don't seem to mind companies gaming the system paying less taxes, or even better, rich people gaming the system to pay less taxes. They are fine with subsidies to big corporations (how else will they ever afford to develop new things?). In other words- corporate welfare and rich welfare is just fine- but welfare to the poor is bad because a handful of people game the system.

I'd love to see a good economist take $1,000,000,000 and distribute it to:

People who earn $1,000,000 a year
People who earn $100,000 a year
People who earn $50,000 a year
People who earn $25,000 a year
and people who earn $10,000 a year.

And I mean all of it to each sector, not split up. Basically study how money flows through the economy. My premise is that the $1,000,000 crowd will recirculate the least within the US economy- given savings rates, shelters available, and the ability to spend overseas. But see what they spend money on, and where the money eventually ends up.

Nobody seems to remember that our economy is based on consumer spending. And when I spend money that stays in the US- it recirculates many times over again. Not to say that saving money for the future is a bad thing- but letting people who don't have the means to save money have some more money to live on isn't a bad thing for the economy.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Again with the lack of reading comprehension. Your little tirades are laughable and misguided since literally no one here is in favor of people gaming the system. The only one challenged here is you because you are reading things that just arent there.

We understand some will take advantage, some ALWAYS take advantage. There is no way to prevent it without causing harm to others. We choose to help the whole and risk it. Chaffetz would sooner screw over the whole group to make sure no one even tries. (because Chaffetz doesnt care about people ESPECIALLY poor people)

The only one who needs to read back is you. You wont, and that is fine but dont put words in our mouth mmkay. You and your ilk are why we are here anyways.

If you want to be against people gaming the system, then we might as well unite in that fight. How about Congress that is supposedly "exempt" from the ACA? Also illegals that come over, pay in nothing, and get everything? BTW, 100% of them are criminals, as illegally entering the country is a crime. Once we handle both, you'll be surprised to see how the costs decrease.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Nobody seems to remember that our economy is based on consumer spending. And when I spend money that stays in the US- it recirculates many times over again. Not to say that saving money for the future is a bad thing- but letting people who don't have the means to save money have some more money to live on isn't a bad thing for the economy.

Your whole post is excellent, but this last paragraph reminded me of the biggest problem the public in general has about "redistribution." Republicans have been able to sell, forever, really, the idea that redistribution is taking the fruits of one person's labor out of their mouth and giving it to a lazy person who hasn't earned it. This is an appealing narrative because it gibes with the way most people associate money with work. Even investments by middle class people have their seed in the work they did to earn the money to set aside for investment. Money has a moral dimension -- it represents someone getting up, groaning, and going to work. It is payment for doing sucky things -- for sacrifice.

But at a threshold of, say $10M or $25M, this ceases to be true for money generated by financial transactions. Money is no longer "sublimated work units" -- it is completely disassociated with work and is just a score-keeping mechanism for macroeconomic forces. It loses its moral dimension. It no longer has anything to do with sacrifice.

Republicans, and conservatives in general, have managed to elide this and conflate the capital gains and Cayman accounts of billionaires with the hard-earned profits of the honest corner grocer, and Democrats, and liberals in general, have not done a good job calling them on their BS, in party because liberalism has become obsessed with social issues, and perhaps in part because liberals tend to be successful in a meritocratic / finance-driven economy and are not pushing for high taxes on the wealthy with the ardor their working class ancestors did.

The biggest lie the Republicans tell -- and think about how hard a conference that is to emerge from -- is that the billion and 1st dollar has the same moral dimension as the thousand and 1st dollar. That is nonsense. The Democrats should have been proposing small tax cuts for the middle class and GIGANTIC tax hikes for the rich -- 90% on $1B+, 75% on $100M+, 60% on $10M+, 45% on $1M+, 30% on $100K+, 20% on $50K+, 0 on everything else. That would capture the logarithmic quality of the moral dimension of income.

 

[BassAle]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Congress that is supposedly "exempt" from the ACA?

Congress is not "exempt" from the ACA you moron.

First of all, they already had an employer sponsored plan. If you already have insurance you don't buy it from an exchange. People had a fit congress was exempt from "Obamacare" (what they really mean is they weren't required to go get insurance from a ACA marketplace) so someone proposed that they do away with their plans and force them all to purchase individual plans through an exchange. That kind of sucks for congressional staffers, since they would lose their health insurance benefit just for political show. You're going to take away some congressional staffers insurance benefit and make them buy it themselves? Instead they decided to treat a congressional office like a small business and allow them to use the small business marketplace to allow them to still provide employeer-sponsored coverage. So basically they jump through hoops to force congress and their staff to get insurance through an ACA marketplace rather than through the Federal Employee Benefits Program. They are the only people that can't get insurance through a group plan through their employer and HAVE to get it through an ACA marketplace. They are far from "exempt from the ACA".

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Your whole post is excellent, but this last paragraph reminded me of the biggest problem the public in general has about "redistribution." Republicans have been able to sell, forever, really, the idea that redistribution is taking the fruits of one person's labor out of their mouth and giving it to a lazy person who hasn't earned it. This is an appealing narrative because it gibes with the way most people associate money with work. Even investments by middle class people have their seed in the work they did to earn the money to set aside for investment. Money has a moral dimension -- it represents someone getting up, groaning, and going to work. It is payment for doing sucky things -- for sacrifice.

But at a threshold of, say $10M or $25M, this ceases to be true for money generated by financial transactions. Money is no longer "sublimated work units" -- it is completely disassociated with work and is just a score-keeping mechanism for macroeconomic forces. It loses its moral dimension. It no longer has anything to do with sacrifice.

Republicans, and conservatives in general, have managed to elide this and conflate the capital gains and Cayman accounts of billionaires with the hard-earned profits of the honest corner grocer, and Democrats, and liberals in general, have not done a good job calling them on their BS, in party because liberalism has become obsessed with social issues, and perhaps in part because liberals tend to be successful in a meritocratic / finance-driven economy and are not pushing for high taxes on the wealthy with the ardor their working class ancestors did.

The biggest lie the Republicans tell -- and think about how hard a conference that is to emerge from -- is that the billion and 1st dollar has the same moral dimension as the thousand and 1st dollar. That is nonsense. The Democrats should have been proposing small tax cuts for the middle class and GIGANTIC tax hikes for the rich -- 90% on $1B+, 75% on $100M+, 60% on $10M+, 45% on $1M+, 30% on $100K+, 20% on $50K+, 0 on everything else. That would capture the logarithmic quality of the moral dimension of income.

Great point, and it's called Unearned Income for a reason. But long term unearned income gets a major tax break. How that jibes is beyond me.

What is funny is when you challenge people with real earners- compare Allan Mullaly in his heyday at Ford vs. someone like Romney who had mostly unearned income. Each made $15-20M/year, but Alan had to pay real income tax, as it was real income (figure ~30%), but the Romney like person would pay half that (15% for long term capitol gains). How is it fair that the hard working guy, probably working 12 hours a day pay twice as much money as someone who got lucky choosing a fund? They claim that it's not fair, but no real solution.