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POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

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Spartanforlife4 said:
Chaffetz quickly emerging to the front of the idiotic line with his "healthcare or iPhone" comment.
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I pretty much disagree with Chaffetz on all political policy, but the thing is, what he is describing actually does happen. My wife witnesses on pretty much a daily basis, people showing up in the ER saying they can't afford health insurance and wanting prescriptions and services for "free"... Yet they can evidently afford things like multiple tattoos and the new iPhone 7 they are texting away on while she is trying to help them.

Sad but true.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

ericredaxe said:
I pretty much disagree with Chaffetz on all political policy, but the thing is, what he is describing actually does happen. My wife witnesses on pretty much a daily basis, people showing up in the ER saying they can't afford health insurance and wanting prescriptions and services for "free"... Yet they can evidently afford things like multiple tattoos and the new iPhone 7 they are texting away on while she is trying to help them.

Sad but true.
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Well see here is the problem with that...how much does cell phone service cost? How much does insurance cost? If they arent the same Chaffetz is full of crap. (btw they arent unless they can afford Verizon and my guess is they are closer to MetroPCS and he is)

Even if you assume they paid full price for the phone (which no one does anymore) that is what $600? That will pay for what...2 months insurance? 3? (less if they have kids) The entire argument is invalid.

The whole statement is a strawman and I could spend the next hour poking ridiculously large holes in it. And if you buy it at all then no wonder you supported Gary Johnson.
 
ericredaxe said:
I pretty much disagree with Chaffetz on all political policy, but the thing is, what he is describing actually does happen. My wife witnesses on pretty much a daily basis, people showing up in the ER saying they can't afford health insurance and wanting prescriptions and services for "free"... Yet they can evidently afford things like multiple tattoos and the new iPhone 7 they are texting away on while she is trying to help them.

Sad but true.
Click to expand...

And we need to cut food stamps because someone bought lobster with them once.
 
ericredaxe said:
I pretty much disagree with Chaffetz on all political policy, but the thing is, what he is describing actually does happen. My wife witnesses on pretty much a daily basis, people showing up in the ER saying they can't afford health insurance and wanting prescriptions and services for "free"... Yet they can evidently afford things like multiple tattoos and the new iPhone 7 they are texting away on while she is trying to help them.

Sad but true.
Click to expand...

Because no one ever gets a cell phone as a gift.
 
Handyman said:
Well see here is the problem with that...how much does cell phone service cost? How much does insurance cost? If they arent the same Chaffetz is full of crap. (btw they arent and he is)

Even if you assume they paid full price for the phone (which no one does anymore) that is what $600? That will pay for what...2 months insurance? 3? The entire argument is invalid.

The whole statement is a strawman and I could spend the next hour poking ridiculous holes in it. And if you buy it at all then no wonder you supported Gary Johnson.
Click to expand...

Indeed, but if they can afford their new iPhone, they ought to be able to pay for the z-pac they were prescribed right? And not need it for "free"? Or for those who do have insurance should be able to cover their co-pay if they could afford a new tattoo.

If you don't think there are people who are gaming the system then you are stupidly naive.

Spend some time hanging around your local ED. It happens every day.
 
ericredaxe said:
Indeed, but if they can afford their new iPhone, they ought to be able to pay for the z-pac they were prescribed right? And not need it for "free"? Or for those who do have insurance should be able to cover their co-pay if they could afford a new tattoo.

If you don't think there are people who are gaming the system then you are stupidly naive.

Spend some time hanging around your local ED. It happens every day.
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There will always be people who game the system. It doesn't mean you block it off for everyone else, especially when actual lives are at stake.
 
Spartanforlife4 said:
There will always be people who game the system. It doesn't mean you block it off for everyone else, especially when actual lives are at stake.
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So you are ok with people gaming the system? Got it.

Personally this is one of the things I like about the individual mandate.... It is at least an attempt to force some personal responsibility.
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Handyman said:
Well see here is the problem with that...how much does cell phone service cost? How much does insurance cost? If they arent the same Chaffetz is full of crap. (btw they arent unless they can afford Verizon and my guess is they are closer to MetroPCS and he is)

Even if you assume they paid full price for the phone (which no one does anymore) that is what $600? That will pay for what...2 months insurance? 3? (less if they have kids) The entire argument is invalid.

The whole statement is a strawman and I could spend the next hour poking ridiculously large holes in it. And if you buy it at all then no wonder you supported Gary Johnson.
Click to expand...

While the statement is extreme, stuff like that does add up. So, the $600 you mention is still $600. Then ask yourself, do they have cable? Internet? There's a couple hundred a month if one has both. How about a gaming system? The system itself is a couple hundred, one-time cost. Do they pay a monthly fee for online gaming with said system? The newest DVDs?

Nickels and dimes, so to speak, add up quickly.
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Heck, she had someone show up the other day to get "free" prescription Ibuprofen, because their back was sore and "couldn't afford" to go to the store and buy it over the counter.

So the rest of the system pays for an ER visit etc, for a problem that could have been solved with a $6 bottle of Advil.
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

ericredaxe said:
So you are ok with people gaming the system? Got it.

Personally this is one of the things I like about the individual mandate.... It is at least an attempt to force some personal responsibility.
Click to expand...

He didn't say that. No matter what "system" you use, someone is going to game it.
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Brenthoven said:
While the statement is extreme, stuff like that does add up. So, the $600 you mention is still $600. Then ask yourself, do they have cable? Internet? There's a couple hundred a month if one has both. How about a gaming system? The system itself is a couple hundred, one-time cost. Do they pay a monthly fee for online gaming with said system? The newest DVDs?

Nickels and dimes, so to speak, add up quickly.
Click to expand...

Are you really assuming that everyone who uses the ER has cable and gaming systems and internet? Indiana Jones didnt take a leap like that in Last Crusade. (I assume you are not) Not to mention just because someone has a PS3 doesnt mean they are flush with money or spending outside their means and can afford health care. There is a reason 20 million more people have health care now than did before ObamaCare.

Do some game the system...of course. I worked and lived in the inner city I saw it all the time. To pretend it exists on a level that eric or Chaffetz pretends it does is absurd. Not to mention, it ignores the fact that there are about a billion ways to prove they are full of crap.

Hey here is one...my father has a cell phone he got through a some government program (I think through the state but I never cared to find out) and has never paid a dime for. He never uses it, but he could and it would cost a heckuva lot less than his health insurance does if he did. I could join MetroPCS tomorrow and get a new Iphone and a sweet plan for less than any insurance plan.

This BS is the same crap we hear when some rips into Welfare. Just because a small percentage game the system some smug self righteous (often white privileged) d-bag assumes they all are. They either cut it completely or they argue for stupid solutions like drug testing that costs way more than the payout and catches next to no one. It is crap.

I would bet if a study was done it would be less than 1% would fall into the eric/Chaffetz "need to learn to sacrifice" bubble.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Handyman said:
Are you really assuming that everyone who uses the ER has cable and gaming systems and internet? Indiana Jones didnt take a leap like that in Last Crusade. (I assume you are not) Not to mention just because someone has a PS3 doesnt mean they are flush with money or spending outside their means and can afford health care. There is a reason 20 million more people have health care now than did before ObamaCare.

Do some game the system...of course. I worked and lived in the inner city I saw it all the time. To pretend it exists on a level that eric or Chaffetz pretends it does is absurd. Not to mention, it ignores the fact that there are about a billion ways to prove they are full of crap.

Hey here is one...my father has a cell phone he got through a some government program (I think through the state but I never cared to find out) and has never paid a dime for. He never uses it, but he could and it would cost a heckuva lot less than his health insurance does if he did. I could join MetroPCS tomorrow and get a new Iphone and a sweet plan for less than any insurance plan.

This BS is the same crap we hear when some rips into Welfare. Just because a small percentage game the system some smug self righteous (often white privileged) d-bag assumes they all are. They either cut it completely or they argue for stupid solutions like drug testing that costs way more than the payout and catches next to no one. It is crap.

I would bet if a study was done it would be less than 1% would fall into the eric/Chaffetz "need to learn to sacrifice" bubble.
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I *think* we agree more than disagree.

However, there are gamers of this particular system, and the system CAN be improved to eliminate at least some of the gamers. Can't eliminate all. There are always ways around it. And it's the ones with the luxuries, so to speak, that need to be eliminated, and sometimes, those folks can be immediately ID'd. That's my (and mine alone) point. Just as I said nickel and diming a budget adds up, nickel and diming by way of elimination also adds up to the costs of gov't benefits.
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

MaizeRage said:
Not sure how it can be considered a 'gotcha' question when the part that 'got' Sessions was him running his racist maw about something that wasn't even part of Franken's question.
Click to expand...

While I'm no fan of Franken. Sessions needs to go. Now. Franken got him good, and rightfully so.
 
Handyman said:
Are you really assuming that everyone who uses the ER has cable and gaming systems and internet? Indiana Jones didnt take a leap like that in Last Crusade. (I assume you are not) Not to mention just because someone has a PS3 doesnt mean they are flush with money or spending outside their means and can afford health care. There is a reason 20 million more people have health care now than did before ObamaCare.

Do some game the system...of course. I worked and lived in the inner city I saw it all the time. To pretend it exists on a level that eric or Chaffetz pretends it does is absurd. Not to mention, it ignores the fact that there are about a billion ways to prove they are full of crap.

Hey here is one...my father has a cell phone he got through a some government program (I think through the state but I never cared to find out) and has never paid a dime for. He never uses it, but he could and it would cost a heckuva lot less than his health insurance does if he did. I could join MetroPCS tomorrow and get a new Iphone and a sweet plan for less than any insurance plan.

This BS is the same crap we hear when some rips into Welfare. Just because a small percentage game the system some smug self righteous (often white privileged) d-bag assumes they all are. They either cut it completely or they argue for stupid solutions like drug testing that costs way more than the payout and catches next to no one. It is crap.

I would bet if a study was done it would be less than 1% would fall into the eric/Chaffetz "need to learn to sacrifice" bubble.
Click to expand...

If it is less than 1%, present such a study or S T F U.

As mentioned, get a job for a while in your local ER and witness it for yourself... Or maybe it is easier to rattle off made up <1% statistics while burying you head in the sand and pretending stuff like this never happens.

Meanwhile it is nice to know that you support "free" stuff for anyone who "can't afford it", yet stands outside puffing down their $10 / pack cigarettes while waiting for it.

Personally I think it's nuts if someone does not support the individual mandate... Sometimes you have to force people to take some personal responsibility.
 
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