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POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
- Thread starter French Rage
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
? - Huh?
So he did his job without any leaks.... but now it is time for leaks?!?
Silly rabbit
? - Huh?
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
And I am not asking him to make a political decision. I didnt say he should be pushing for impeachment and I am fine with what he concluded. That isnt what this is about.
His words were made political by someone else, and whats worse is they were twisted and misused to exonerate the very person he was investigating. (which goes against the findings of Mueller himself) I dont know about you but if I am doing my best to stay out of it and someone pulls me in and lies about what my conclusions are for days/weeks on end I do more than write them a letter saying "you stop now or else!" If he cared about his integrity so much he would have denounced what Barr said the next day after Barr held his PC. But no he stood there flaccid...didnt have the stones to say the truth and challenge the lies even as they spread like wildfire.
This isnt about impeachment, this is about him supposedly trying to "stay out of the fray" but not stopping others from doing it for him. You want to punt on the questions to other jurisdictions fine. I trust them to do what is right more than I trust Congress. But you literally wrote "this does not exonerate Trump" in the report and Barr is saying you said otherwise and you sit back and do nothing? That doesnt sound like a Prosecutor to me that sounds like a Democrat.
And I am not asking him to make a political decision. I didnt say he should be pushing for impeachment and I am fine with what he concluded. That isnt what this is about.
His words were made political by someone else, and whats worse is they were twisted and misused to exonerate the very person he was investigating. (which goes against the findings of Mueller himself) I dont know about you but if I am doing my best to stay out of it and someone pulls me in and lies about what my conclusions are for days/weeks on end I do more than write them a letter saying "you stop now or else!" If he cared about his integrity so much he would have denounced what Barr said the next day after Barr held his PC. But no he stood there flaccid...didnt have the stones to say the truth and challenge the lies even as they spread like wildfire.
This isnt about impeachment, this is about him supposedly trying to "stay out of the fray" but not stopping others from doing it for him. You want to punt on the questions to other jurisdictions fine. I trust them to do what is right more than I trust Congress. But you literally wrote "this does not exonerate Trump" in the report and Barr is saying you said otherwise and you sit back and do nothing? That doesnt sound like a Prosecutor to me that sounds like a Democrat.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
I dont think he is a bad guy...I think he is weak. I think he (most likely) did a great job with the investigation. I think, much like Comey and Rosenstein he is out of his element dealing with the fallout from the actions they take because they think most people have a sense of honor and duty. They do things the right way assuming that will lead to the right conclusions and reactions. They especially feel that way about the GOP because they themselves are Republicans. (well Comey left but he was) They failed to realize that there is no honor in the GOP these days, and by the time they realize it is way too late. They may want to be A-Political in the sense of their actions, but they allow themselves to become pawns in the political game and dont have the guts to fight it until the damage has been done.
Now if Mueller becomes the next Comey who basically has spent the last 2 years on an Anti-Trump tour I might think differently. I dont see that happening though.
I dont think he is a bad guy...I think he is weak. I think he (most likely) did a great job with the investigation. I think, much like Comey and Rosenstein he is out of his element dealing with the fallout from the actions they take because they think most people have a sense of honor and duty. They do things the right way assuming that will lead to the right conclusions and reactions. They especially feel that way about the GOP because they themselves are Republicans. (well Comey left but he was) They failed to realize that there is no honor in the GOP these days, and by the time they realize it is way too late. They may want to be A-Political in the sense of their actions, but they allow themselves to become pawns in the political game and dont have the guts to fight it until the damage has been done.
Now if Mueller becomes the next Comey who basically has spent the last 2 years on an Anti-Trump tour I might think differently. I dont see that happening though.
duper
Well-known member
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
You might not be wrong, but I personally am not willing to judge too harshly a guy who conducted a massive investigation into possible crimes committed by members of his own political party, suffered silently as the President of the United States (who claims to be a member of said party) called him a traitor for conducting the investigation, because he spent a couple of weeks at the end of a multiyear investigation working up the courage (or whatever he was working up) to call out the Attorney General for lying about his findings. (Christ on a cracker. That is probably the most poorly-written sentence I've ever perpetrated on humans. Sorry 'bout that.)
Mueller's work was the investigation and its report. He did the work. As we've seen, finding a Republican who will speak up against this administration is not easy.
You might not be wrong, but I personally am not willing to judge too harshly a guy who conducted a massive investigation into possible crimes committed by members of his own political party, suffered silently as the President of the United States (who claims to be a member of said party) called him a traitor for conducting the investigation, because he spent a couple of weeks at the end of a multiyear investigation working up the courage (or whatever he was working up) to call out the Attorney General for lying about his findings. (Christ on a cracker. That is probably the most poorly-written sentence I've ever perpetrated on humans. Sorry 'bout that.)
Mueller's work was the investigation and its report. He did the work. As we've seen, finding a Republican who will speak up against this administration is not easy.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
Alternative explanation: Mueller views process as more important than result because violation of process means all future process, and thus results, are at risk.
He does not view himself as a political actor; he views himself as an institutional functionary. His personal opinions are left at the door when he goes to work.
This is precisely what we are supposed to ask of all our state actors: cops, judges, soldiers. When you get state actors who discard their impartiality because they think "this time it's really important," you get Katherine Harris.
Alternative explanation: Mueller views process as more important than result because violation of process means all future process, and thus results, are at risk.
He does not view himself as a political actor; he views himself as an institutional functionary. His personal opinions are left at the door when he goes to work.
This is precisely what we are supposed to ask of all our state actors: cops, judges, soldiers. When you get state actors who discard their impartiality because they think "this time it's really important," you get Katherine Harris.
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
If you want Chump and crew held accountable for their crimes, it isn't Mueller's job to do so. Simply put, you need to 1) vote Chump and the Nazi cult out of office in 2020 (doable) and then 2) refer his crimes based on Mueller's investigation to the proper authorities. If that includes people like Barr in the cover up so be it. Chump is making a cynical but reasoned guess that if he runs out the clock on his first term, even if he ends up losing there will be no political appetite from the Dems in power to re-investigate his Presidency. If he wins he'll consider that justification for shutting down any investigations and pardoning anybody who could do him damage. I personally would prefer an airtight investigation and the authorities waiting to lead him away in handcuffs the minute he (hopefully) hands over power in Jan of 2021.
If you want Chump and crew held accountable for their crimes, it isn't Mueller's job to do so. Simply put, you need to 1) vote Chump and the Nazi cult out of office in 2020 (doable) and then 2) refer his crimes based on Mueller's investigation to the proper authorities. If that includes people like Barr in the cover up so be it. Chump is making a cynical but reasoned guess that if he runs out the clock on his first term, even if he ends up losing there will be no political appetite from the Dems in power to re-investigate his Presidency. If he wins he'll consider that justification for shutting down any investigations and pardoning anybody who could do him damage. I personally would prefer an airtight investigation and the authorities waiting to lead him away in handcuffs the minute he (hopefully) hands over power in Jan of 2021.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
That's not weakness, that's being a good lawman. What Comey has done as a private citizen, lashing out at Droolius Caesar for firing him over patently political reasons, is his own business. Mueller was conducting an independent investigation, and has to maintain that air of impartiality (even if Dumpies think he's a "Deep Stater" regardless).
That's not weakness, that's being a good lawman. What Comey has done as a private citizen, lashing out at Droolius Caesar for firing him over patently political reasons, is his own business. Mueller was conducting an independent investigation, and has to maintain that air of impartiality (even if Dumpies think he's a "Deep Stater" regardless).
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
This is correct. He is the perfect embodiment of what we want our public servants to be. The man should be held up as the gold standard.
This is correct. He is the perfect embodiment of what we want our public servants to be. The man should be held up as the gold standard.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
"Most transparent administration evah!"
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Secret Service guarded the door to the bar at Mar-a-Lago, preventing the bartender from returning while Trump staffers helped themselves to top-shelf liquor and sent taxpayers the bill. <a href="https://t.co/AoibqwwhSY">https://t.co/AoibqwwhSY</a></p>— Jessica Huseman (@JessicaHuseman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JessicaHuseman/status/1123605398982930433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
"Most transparent administration evah!"
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Secret Service guarded the door to the bar at Mar-a-Lago, preventing the bartender from returning while Trump staffers helped themselves to top-shelf liquor and sent taxpayers the bill. <a href="https://t.co/AoibqwwhSY">https://t.co/AoibqwwhSY</a></p>— Jessica Huseman (@JessicaHuseman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JessicaHuseman/status/1123605398982930433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
French Rage
NICKERSON HAS [CENSORED]
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
This. He realizes that if at all looks like he is doing anything for personal or political, rather than professional, reasons than that's risks putting the whole investigation at risk. And yes, I realize that those opposed are going to try to discredit it regardless, but he personally cannot risk giving them a wide opening to do so.
He went through the proper channels and conducted the investigation. Some a-hole purposely mis-summarized it. He wrote a letter objecting (right after the summary came out) so that it was on record in an official manner. Now we know about it. Now it's up to Congress and those who can act to put 2 and 2 together and do so.
This. He realizes that if at all looks like he is doing anything for personal or political, rather than professional, reasons than that's risks putting the whole investigation at risk. And yes, I realize that those opposed are going to try to discredit it regardless, but he personally cannot risk giving them a wide opening to do so.
He went through the proper channels and conducted the investigation. Some a-hole purposely mis-summarized it. He wrote a letter objecting (right after the summary came out) so that it was on record in an official manner. Now we know about it. Now it's up to Congress and those who can act to put 2 and 2 together and do so.
French Rage
NICKERSON HAS [CENSORED]
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
For the record, here's the letter: https://twitter.com/HouseJudiciary/status/1123584968960172033
For the record, here's the letter: https://twitter.com/HouseJudiciary/status/1123584968960172033
rufus
rock and roller
Wow, I agree with Rover. No need to demonize the man cause he didn't come back with the result you wanted. Well, basically he did, but its not his place or authority to pass that judgement.
In this day and age, with politicians casually overstepping their authority, or being in others' pockets, or using their positions to enrich themselves and their friends, that should be a refreshing approach.
That our political authorities, whose place and authority it is to make that judgement, won't, because they're either totally spineless or totally corrupt, isn't on Mueller, and he shouldn't be marred with that. Save your ire for those who deserve it, and can make a judgement in this matter
rufus
rock and roller
You realize if Dems had not taken the House in the midterms, we would have never seen the Mueller Report.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
Holy sh-t! You are exactly right. How'd that happen?!
Holy sh-t! You are exactly right. How'd that happen?!
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
Barr: "I don't know."
This is basically his answer to every other question so far.
Barr: "I don't know."
This is basically his answer to every other question so far.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything
It's one step above "I don't recall" on the "I'm perjuring myself, we both know it, and there's nothing you can do about it" hit parade.
It's one step above "I don't recall" on the "I'm perjuring myself, we both know it, and there's nothing you can do about it" hit parade.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
If only Hillary has done that. Shame only one party acts like adults
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