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POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

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Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

rufus said:
Nice arbitrary choice of date to start with. FBI didn't begin investigating until after he was sworn in as president. After he revealed classified intelligence to Russian officials in the oval office.

You're such a disingenuous putz.
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That's the Mueller probe. As the article said, FBI counter-intel took note in July 2016.
 
Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

The Sicatoka said:
That's the Mueller probe. As the article said, FBI counter-intel took note in July 2016.
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The Mueller probe did not start before Red Don became president. FBI took note, did not begin investigation.

Disengenuous putz, and factually bereft. . Dangerous combination.


Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? Do you have to remind yourself to breathe?
 
Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

jerphisch said:
It's already out there...

It's already out there...
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Make you a deal, I'll keep reading everything that's out there and keep asking for the impeachable evidence to be brought so if we have a Russian plant we remove it; but, you read Turley's piece about confirmation bias with an open mind.

The result is two separate narratives that fed off the actions of each other. There likely was bias in the initial assumptions, with a willingness at the FBI to believe Trump would be a tool of the Russians, and a willingness by Trump to believe the FBI would be a tool of the Clintons. Every move and countermove confirmed each bias. Trump continued to denounce what he saw as a conspiracy. The FBI continued to investigate his obstructive attitude. One side saw a witch hunt where the other saw a mole hunt.

Of course, neither side can accept at this point that they may have been wrong about the other side. In economics that is called path dependence. So much has been built on the Republican and Democratic sides on these original assumptions that it is impossible to now deconstruct from those narratives. In other words, there may have been no Russian mole and no deep state conspiracy. Moreover, the motivations may not have been to obstruct either the Trump administration or the Russia investigation. Instead, this could all prove to be the greatest, most costly example of cognitive bias in history, and now no one in this story wants to admit it.
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Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

rufus said:
The Mueller probe did not start before Red Don became president. FBI took note, did not begin investigation.

Disengenuous putz, and factually bereft. . Dangerous combination.


Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? Do you have to remind yourself to breathe?
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Rufus, you're better than ad hominem. And I've already given Rover due credit for pointing at Starr (4 years).
 
Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

The Sicatoka said:
So you understand my wanting to see the evidence before convicting.
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Sure, but anyone who doesn't see collusion already hasn't been paying attention. Lindsey Graham comes to mind. How he ever received a law degree I'll never know.
 
Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

jerphisch said:
Maybe you need to argue this one out with yourself first.
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Clearly it's not out there as the evidence I want is stuff a prosecutor (paging Mr. Mueller) or law enforcement (paging FBI counter-intel) bring to make a case.

Until then, I'm seeing a whole lot of confirmation bias (see: Turley) from both sides. And yeah, I'm recognizing it in myself which is exactly why I'm saying show me the evidence and I'm there.
 
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Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

The Sicatoka said:
Make you a deal, I'll keep reading everything that's out there and keep asking for the impeachable evidence to be brought so if we have a Russian plant we remove it; but, you read Turley's piece about confirmation bias with an open mind.
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Actually, if you've been following the news, "reading everything that's out there", you'd know that there was an "unwillingness" at the FBI to believe that Trump could be working for the Russians or a Russian asset. Hence the reason they didn't begin investigating during the campaign, despite the preponderance of evidence out there. It was only after Trump revealed classified information to Russians in the oval office, and his disgusting fellating of Putin in Helsinki that they decided that yes, they needed to look into this.

Which renders Turley's assumption worthless, and therefore his entire piece is based on nothing. Just another strawman.
 
Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

The Sicatoka said:
So you understand my wanting to see the evidence before convicting.
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We all understand that. But you understand that there is a mounting body of evidence that some may consider a preponderance. And Dump's MO is to create a circus to distract from the ongoing investigations against him, which makes us even more vulnerable.

Also consider that the risk of allowing a Russian asset to occupy that office is FAR more important than the risk of kicking an innocent Dump to the curb. Pence will give you your far right agenda. Just go with him ferchrissakes.
 
leswp1 said:
THis is great to address all the spin on both sides but until he started being so successful Meuller was widely supported and touted as an excellent choice to be fair and thorough. Even more reason to let him do his job instead of reading all the back seat drivers trying to investigate to support their beliefs
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I wonder what the left will say about him if they don’t get the result they want...
 
Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

The Sicatoka said:
And if it's shown he's broken the law he'll face it like every other.
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Except no, his party will cover for him and his supporters will squeeze their eyes shut. Maybe you won't. But most Dumpies will literally not even see a problem. Cognitive bias is a real thing -- it allows people to edit their experiences to prevent dissonant information from getting through. Just go to a hockey game and watch the different fan sections experience a completely different game where the other team is committing all the penalties.

Through Fox and Hate Radio the GOP has successfully trained its audience to ignore objective truths. They literally think that if a news report is published by the NY Times or WaPo, or if a scientific paper is published by a peer reviewed journal, then it's "fake."

That is insane.
 
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Re: POTUS 45:46: New Year, Same 'Ol Crap.

The Sicatoka said:
Hurry? What hurry? For context ... June 17, 1972 to Aug. 8, 1974 -- 27 months

If we use July 2016 (paragraph 15 of NYT article, "when he called on Russia during a campaign news conference in July 2016" and FBI counter-intel took note) to January 2019 we're at 31 months.


Let's put the evidence out there and put an end to this one way or the other.
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They were also investigating a single event, for which there were 5 arrests made the night of, and its eventual cover up. A great many more events, and people, and no immediate arrests made the day/night of, and the investigation is bound to take longer.
 
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