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POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

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Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Handyman said:
True, but what is the point of having a law if it isnt enforced? Would make more sense to change it than to just say "nah we can let that go". And who gets to decide what laws matter and what laws dont because I dont trust the people in charge to make those decisions no matter what party is in power. Should the people in the Southwest have the right to decide? If so I bet you wont like their decision...

You may not like it but Brent is right. Changing the law is the only way to make this work and the truth is most Americans are too lazy to care or do anything about it unless it directly effects them. Sure now everyone is up in arms over what is going on but it isnt like Border Patrol and ICE/Immigration is a new thing. Trump by accident did the best thing that could ever happen to the idea of Immigration Reform by basically giving his agents carte blanche to curbstomp anyone they think is illegal. Now every Liberal is mobilized and even some Trump supporters are ticked because they are losing a cheap workforce. Every day we have stories and videos of the horrors...that is how you get change.

Just telling the cops not to enforce the law just annoys people which brings blowback.
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It would cost this country trillions of dollars it doesn't have to enforce the laws that are on the books right now. I'm arguing (correctly) that the enforcement priorities are wrong. You want to change the laws with this Congress, feel free. That's not what I'm arguing about. Of course I would be in favor of that but that's not going to happen.

If you think these laws will change or that there is any momentum you're just not reading what is happening in Washington. If anything Trump's methods have more momentum than ever. Susan Collins is backing that up this morning on ABC's This Week.

Just send the Statue of Liberty to France and be done with it.
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

The Rube said:
You do realize I DO encourage people to come to this country, right? Just do it legally. It's a great country, despite our current leader and some of the people here. Asking folks to obey the laws isn't some drastic over-the-top request.
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Doing it legally is almost impossible right now. And that's not going to change in the next 25 years. You realize many of the illegals are green card expirations correct? Not Caravans.
 
The Rube said:
It's the easiest way to explain my suggestion (thanks to Handy for simplifying the comparison). That's all.

And don't forget the Irish in that bias, btw. ;)

Immigration should be simple. The current laws are much too complex for what the goal is: allow productive individuals who want a better life for themselves, come here and help this nation improve.
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That’s fine as a mission or purpose statement, but laws and regulations must be drafted with as little ambiguity as possible, or they will just spawn litigation or, just as likely, be abused.
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Handyman said:
You do realize that half the stuff in this country can probably be traced back to racism...so what? Everyone here keeps using Ellis Island as the standard because back then pretty much everyone was let in. Now all of a sudden Rube wants to go back to that and you trot out that it was racist? Talk about moving the goalposts.
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RACISTS!!!!!

(whew! :D)
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

If a law is unjust you can actively work to change it and break it in the mean time to help those being unfairly treated by it, that includes juries and judges. Rather than saying “durrrr it’s the law and it’s not affecting me directly so THOSE people should suffer the consequences even if that results in death”. In more extreme instances people like Brent are supporting fascist governments going around indiscriminantly killing people because it’s “legal”. So no he’s not right solely because he bought you a beer one time ten years ago.

Changes don’t solely occur solely because people die or suffer punishments that don’t fit the crime, they change because people put pressure on politicians via large scale demonstrations and in this country, voting them out of office. But yes when you support “people taking responsibility” via the harsh punishments doled out for completely racist enforcement of a law, then yes you’re still being racist. It’s a bit more subtle than being an outright bigot but if you’re letting people who justify the racist enforcement of immigration policies solely based on legality, you’re letting most of Trump’s supporters off the hook.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rudes: "Collusion is not a crime. It was over with before the election." <a href="https://t.co/YHAj8SyZK1">pic.twitter.com/YHAj8SyZK1</a></p>— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) <a href="https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1074388736362901505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

jerphisch said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rudes: "Collusion is not a crime. It was over with before the election." <a href="https://t.co/YHAj8SyZK1">pic.twitter.com/YHAj8SyZK1</a></p>— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) <a href="https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1074388736362901505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Well that is one way to go about it...

Right on track though. First lie, then deny, then say you did it but it wasnt illegal anyways. They are playing the script well they just forget it never works out for the person being accused ;)
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Handyman said:
Talk about moving the goalposts.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. I wasn't moving goalposts. I just wanted a clarification of which era were we going with: Are the Irish allowed or not, and also are Finns Scandinavian or Asian?

:D
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

aparch said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I wasn't moving goalposts. I just wanted a clarification of which era were we going with: Are the Irish allowed or not, and also are Finns Scandinavian or Asian?

:D
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No Lithuanians. Screw those guys.
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Remember when Rudy called Trump "a genius" for evading taxes all those years? :D
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

trixR4kids said:
If a law is unjust you can actively work to change it and break it in the mean time to help those being unfairly treated by it, that includes juries and judges. Rather than saying “durrrr it’s the law and it’s not affecting me directly so THOSE people should suffer the consequences even if that results in death”. In more extreme instances people like Brent are supporting fascist governments going around indiscriminantly killing people because it’s “legal”. So no he’s not right solely because he bought you a beer one time ten years ago.

Changes don’t solely occur solely because people die or suffer punishments that don’t fit the crime, they change because people put pressure on politicians via large scale demonstrations and in this country, voting them out of office. But yes when you support “people taking responsibility” via the harsh punishments doled out for completely racist enforcement of a law, then yes you’re still being racist. It’s a bit more subtle than being an outright bigot but if you’re letting people who justify the racist enforcement of immigration policies solely based on legality, you’re letting most of Trump’s supporters off the hook.
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I do not support fascist governments, thank you very much. I also do not support breaking the law without paying the consequences for breaking laws. It's a touch different. If one chooses to break the law, they are also willing to accept punishment for breaking the law. It's called responsibility.
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

The Rube said:
I do not support fascist governments, thank you very much. I also do not support breaking the law without paying the consequences for breaking laws. It's a touch different. If one chooses to break the law, they are also willing to accept punishment for breaking the law. It's called responsibility.
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Again, you're picking the wrong laws to complain about. You want impact you should be *****ing about gun or finance laws. Those have a much larger and negative impact on society if they're not enforced than immigration law.

And again. The US does not have the resources to "enforce" everything. Not even close.
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

Why would he want to change gun or finance laws? There are virtually no consequences for violating them, short of murder or fleecing the rich. ;)
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

ScoobyDoo said:
Again, you're picking the wrong laws to complain about. You want impact you should be *****ing about gun or finance laws. Those have a much larger and negative impact on society if they're not enforced than immigration law.

And again. The US does not have the resources to "enforce" everything. Not even close.
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I am complaining about the gun laws, and some of the finance laws. But I am also complaining about the current immigration laws. Have you been paying attention?
 
Re: POTUS 45.45: The Wall or a Shut Down. Your Choice Pelosi!!!!!!

aparch said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I wasn't moving goalposts. I just wanted a clarification of which era were we going with: Are the Irish allowed or not, and also are Finns Scandinavian or Asian?

:D
Click to expand...

As always...the Irish need not apply :D

We need the Asians to build the new lightrail tracks ;)
 
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