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POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
- Thread starter ScoobyDoo
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
THat's just not true. And if it is we're lost as a society. Rome is burning.
THat's just not true. And if it is we're lost as a society. Rome is burning.
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
It may not be right, but it is very true. As a society, we have a major fixation on wall st and shareholders, even though, they provide no real benefit to anyone. The only shareholders who benefit the company they own are the ones who bought the shares FROM the company. Otherwise, the trades mean nothing.
And because of the tax laws, our economic system is very biased to earning money via the stock market- so instead of bowing down to the customer and long term plans, companies shoot for share holder value. And it's far form just GM.
Take a long term view, focus on the customer, make money by selling a product where you sell it for more than it takes to make it- that's what businesses should be. In those situations, the workers benefit because they get money, and are not squeezed out of decisions. That money is then circulated though the economy many times over as they use it.
Money in wall st does nothing there- just sits there and nobody can use it (again, for the stock that are traded, which are well over 90% of the exchanges of ownership). Some of it eventually gets used, via retirement and 401k's. But much it just inflates people's net worth.
Which is to say, Rome has been burning for many decades now. Where have you been?
It may not be right, but it is very true. As a society, we have a major fixation on wall st and shareholders, even though, they provide no real benefit to anyone. The only shareholders who benefit the company they own are the ones who bought the shares FROM the company. Otherwise, the trades mean nothing.
And because of the tax laws, our economic system is very biased to earning money via the stock market- so instead of bowing down to the customer and long term plans, companies shoot for share holder value. And it's far form just GM.
Take a long term view, focus on the customer, make money by selling a product where you sell it for more than it takes to make it- that's what businesses should be. In those situations, the workers benefit because they get money, and are not squeezed out of decisions. That money is then circulated though the economy many times over as they use it.
Money in wall st does nothing there- just sits there and nobody can use it (again, for the stock that are traded, which are well over 90% of the exchanges of ownership). Some of it eventually gets used, via retirement and 401k's. But much it just inflates people's net worth.
Which is to say, Rome has been burning for many decades now. Where have you been?
unofan
Well-known member
One of the great mysteries in life is how a few Harvard Business School professors in the 80s got the entire country to believe that statement.
Because for 200 years, companies recognized they had 4 stakeholders: customers, shareholders, employees, and the community at large. Other countries still recognize this, but the US has forgotten the other 3 exist.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
she is the one who wouldn't share her cookie recipes
she is the one who wouldn't share her cookie recipes
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
+ infinity.
Drives me crazy- when we went hog wild into shareholder value, the end result was to almost bankrupt the company. The CEO was finally fired after he took the value from ~30 to just over 1.
+ infinity.
Drives me crazy- when we went hog wild into shareholder value, the end result was to almost bankrupt the company. The CEO was finally fired after he took the value from ~30 to just over 1.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
They are compensated with shares...so you had it right the first time. If you take a look at most major corporation CEO the reported "salary" is usually primarily shares of the company with a smaller actual salary. Gotta take advantage of the tax code.
They are compensated with shares...so you had it right the first time. If you take a look at most major corporation CEO the reported "salary" is usually primarily shares of the company with a smaller actual salary. Gotta take advantage of the tax code.
wolverineTrumpet
not particularly bad
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
Interesting that this conversation stemmed from discussing GM. Part of the latest revision of the ISO 9001 standard (and therefore automotive IATF 16949 standard) is to "understand the needs and expectations of interested parties". I know when preparing the companies I've worked for we've discussed all the above mentioned stakeholders. Of course, that doesn't mean at a large corporation those at the top care about anything other than short term gains. Of course, sometimes the OEMs like to hold their suppliers to a different standard than they bother to meet themselves.
Interesting that this conversation stemmed from discussing GM. Part of the latest revision of the ISO 9001 standard (and therefore automotive IATF 16949 standard) is to "understand the needs and expectations of interested parties". I know when preparing the companies I've worked for we've discussed all the above mentioned stakeholders. Of course, that doesn't mean at a large corporation those at the top care about anything other than short term gains. Of course, sometimes the OEMs like to hold their suppliers to a different standard than they bother to meet themselves.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
Stock buybacks used to be illegal... until you know who became president about 40 years ago. Jerp and Alfa are right, it's a systemic issue.
I mean there's a way to fix this. The problem is a decent segment of the dem party doesn't have any interest in fixing this and the other party somehow manages to be even more regressive.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...z.....0..35i39j0i131j0i67j0i10i67.p5izPp7C4JI
And it's all rooted in Objectivism.
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...z.....0..35i39j0i131j0i67j0i10i67.p5izPp7C4JI
And it's all rooted in Objectivism.
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
And that segments of D that don't care does include Bill Clinton- who was the one who signed the unearned income tax cut. Which is nuts- paying less tax on money you didn't actually earn.
Which was then added to by Bush, and even made permanent.
Sucks really bad.
And that segments of D that don't care does include Bill Clinton- who was the one who signed the unearned income tax cut. Which is nuts- paying less tax on money you didn't actually earn.
Which was then added to by Bush, and even made permanent.
Sucks really bad.
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
Generally true, but that's is not necessarily categorically bad. I don't know how much you want to change the system. What matters is how they get there.
There are long term ways to generate value and there are short term ways to produce the image of value. If businesses are not capable of adding value or have bad leadership...then that's going to be a problem for everyone.
Generally true, but that's is not necessarily categorically bad. I don't know how much you want to change the system. What matters is how they get there.
There are long term ways to generate value and there are short term ways to produce the image of value. If businesses are not capable of adding value or have bad leadership...then that's going to be a problem for everyone.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
Sure. Not bad at all. Like the mine that opens in your town. 50 years later it closes and you're left with the environmental disaster it left behind. Meanwhile your pension fund is bankrupt and you've got cancer.
It's all good. That mine produced a lot of value.
Sure. Not bad at all. Like the mine that opens in your town. 50 years later it closes and you're left with the environmental disaster it left behind. Meanwhile your pension fund is bankrupt and you've got cancer.
It's all good. That mine produced a lot of value.
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
While that outcome is terrible, the process to get there is important.
The mining company should push for it. The blame is not on them. Its on the government that needed to stop them. The mining company should be full on to develop real share holder value...and the government is there to stop them if anyone is going to get hurt in the process. That general recipe is the magic behind western society.
While that outcome is terrible, the process to get there is important.
The mining company should push for it. The blame is not on them. Its on the government that needed to stop them. The mining company should be full on to develop real share holder value...and the government is there to stop them if anyone is going to get hurt in the process. That general recipe is the magic behind western society.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
How is that outcome terrible? That outcome is the outcome of virtually every mine that has ever existed in the United States. And you saying it's on the Government is laughable. We are the Government.
What we should be asking is why the Plutocracy wants to live in a hell hole.
How is that outcome terrible? That outcome is the outcome of virtually every mine that has ever existed in the United States. And you saying it's on the Government is laughable. We are the Government.
What we should be asking is why the Plutocracy wants to live in a hell hole.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
Both can be wrong, it's just realistically the mining company, pharmaceutical companies, banks, etc. aren't just gonna police themselves or curtail their own greed. Govt. regulations are needed to solve that problem which is essentially why libertarianism is so moronic.
Both can be wrong, it's just realistically the mining company, pharmaceutical companies, banks, etc. aren't just gonna police themselves or curtail their own greed. Govt. regulations are needed to solve that problem which is essentially why libertarianism is so moronic.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
I heard that regulations and taxes destroy the economy and jobs and the only way to have them is to cut both to draconian levels.
I heard that regulations and taxes destroy the economy and jobs and the only way to have them is to cut both to draconian levels.
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump
Which is what I was referring to. The government is there to set the parameters and stop the business if need be.
Business is there with the incentive to drive as much value as possible - nobody buys products/services that add no value assuming no corruption. Unlike the GOP or libertarians believe, competent, funded government is critical. It pays for itself in soo many ways.
Which is what I was referring to. The government is there to set the parameters and stop the business if need be.
Business is there with the incentive to drive as much value as possible - nobody buys products/services that add no value assuming no corruption. Unlike the GOP or libertarians believe, competent, funded government is critical. It pays for itself in soo many ways.
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