POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd how many non-pro-Trumpers, but were simply Anti-Hill voters were there? People who asked the Dems (or whoever): Anyone but Hillary?

Keep staying blind. There's a reason the Feel The Bern caught some wind. Not saying that was the answer; that was a response to the Hillary crowd. And it cost hardcore.

People who were so into Bernie that they refused to vote for Hill are just as extreme as the Rs. You're misreading the rest of us as being the extremes, but I think you'd find most of us are more towards the middle, and realize the extremes on both ends are a waste of breath.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

People who were so into Bernie that they refused to vote for Hill are just as extreme as the Rs. You're misreading the rest of us as being the extremes, but I think you'd find most of us are more towards the middle, and realize the extremes on both ends are a waste of breath.

Whoa. Not saying ALL of you are extremes. No way in hell. Some of you are, and are blind to that position. Some are like me, and other anti-Hill folks, and want to find that middle.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

And looking at the last few posts, I've proved my point about the extremist left. Not the ones who will actually listen and try to understand and get the anti-Hill voters to understand things, or see things in a different way. The ones that shut out everyone that doesn't agree with them. Much like the Trumpers. Congrats on achieving that level of hypocrisy.

You then completely misread me, Brent. I am hardly extremist left. If I was I probably wouldn't care how far to the right the republican party has moved in the last 30 or so years because I would have never found any kinship with the party. As late as 1992 I could still vote for a republican for president. As late as 2002 I still voted for republicans in a decidedly democratic county in Indiana for sheriffs and prosecuting attorneys. The growth in the level of hypocrisy and far movement in one political direction has been almost entirely by the republican party. I haven't changed much in my politics, other than I see the republican party for what it is, and what it was becoming by the time the 90s rolled around.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

You then completely misread me, Brent. I am hardly extremist left. If I was I probably wouldn't care how far to the right the republican party has moved in the last 30 or so years because I would have never found any kinship with the party. As late as 1992 I could still vote for a republican for president. As late as 2002 I still voted for republicans in a decidedly democratic county in Indiana for sheriffs and prosecuting attorneys. The growth in the level of hypocrisy and far movement in one political direction has been almost entirely by the republican party. I haven't changed much in my politics, other than I see the republican party for what it is, and what it was becoming by the time the 90s rolled around.

Not calling anyone out except for Scoobs (he stepped up for that). The rest of the folks, they know who they are. If anyone wants to discuss to try and meet in the middle, I'm more than open to listening. Obviously, it will be a tough discussion at times, gotta get through that, but in the long run, it will improve everyone involved.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

Another point.....Hill "tainted" the Dems party, like it or not. Is that fair? No, it is not. But people don't forget.

I am more anti-Hill than most of the Dems here and I don't agree with this statement. The voters who voted against Hillary voted against Hillary, not against the Dems and not even against moderate Dems. She will have no effect at all on 2018. Moving forward she is a nullity.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

I am more anti-Hill than most of the Dems here and I don't agree with this statement. The voters who voted against Hillary voted against Hillary, not against the Dems and not even against moderate Dems. She will have no effect at all on 2018. Moving forward she is a nullity.

I'd agree with you if you'd add and end with the words, "as long as she stays out of the limelight".

If she tries to become the center of the midterms discussion, not so much.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

I'd agree with you if you'd add the words, "as long as she stays out of the limelight". If she tries to become the center of the midterms discussion, not so much.

Fair point. I do not think she will try to extend her 15 minutes.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

I'd agree with you if you'd add and end with the words, "as long as she stays out of the limelight".

If she tries to become the center of the midterms discussion, not so much.

^^^^^^^

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

To break it down, there were some people who weren't going to vote for Hillary, no matter what...that's the audience that needs to be heard.

If they weren't going to change their mind, "no matter what" who gives an eff what they think?

The people Hillary missed out on were those on the fence that went Trump and those that stayed home that normally would have voted for her. And yet she still received 3 million more votes.

People ascribe way, way too much nuance to this election loss. It's as simple as this - a good % of Bernies snubbed their nose and stayed home and those on the fence were not energized nor excited by anything Hillary did/said during the campaign. Only a team of complete imbeciles would miss out on the obvious and lose to Trump in 2020.

 

[joecct]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

May 16th will mark the 100th Anniversary of the Sedition Act of 1918 which was passed by the U.S. Congress, and made criticism of the government an imprisonable offense.

Legislative history (seemed to be popular legislation)
Passed the House of Representatives on 1918 (293 to 1)
Passed the Senate on 1918 (48 to 26)
Signed into law by President Woodrow Wilson on May 16, 1918

It was subsequently repealed in 1920.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

If they weren't going to change their mind, "no matter what" who gives an eff what they think?

The people Hillary missed out on were those on the fence that went Trump and those that stayed home that normally would have voted for her. And yet she still received 3 million more votes.

People ascribe way, way too much nuance to this election loss. It's as simple as this - a good % of Bernies snubbed their nose and stayed home and those on the fence were not energized nor excited by anything Hillary did/said during the campaign. Only a team of complete imbeciles would miss out on the obvious and lose to Trump in 2020.

I really believe that this is the same story the last election. Guess what happened? In 2020, now we see the results, so HOPEFULLY it'll be different. The result was a bit less unknown in 2016.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

I really believe that this is the same story the last election. Guess what happened? In 2020, now we see the results, so HOPEFULLY it'll be different. The result was a bit less unknown in 2016.

Her campaign was ineptly run and I said only a repeat of that will lead to a loss in 2020. It's not understanding the undersirables that's critical.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

Her campaign was ineptly run and I said only a repeat of that will lead to a loss in 2020. It's not understanding the undersirables that's critical.

The "undesirables" which is Pro Trump. NOT Anti Hillary. The fence sitters (at best). Get THAT audience, one gets the win that one wants.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

There's a reason the Feel The Bern caught some wind. Not saying that was the answer; that was a response to the Hillary crowd. And it cost hardcore.

This sentiment was overplayed. More Hillary voters went another direction in 2008 than Bernie voters in 2016. The bigger issue was hardcore Obama voters who stayed home in 2016. The biggest issue may have been voter suppression.

We need two things to happen for the election to go a responsible way in 2018, and that is progressive voters need to get off their fvcking aszes and some voters to take seriously the likelihood there will be an attempt to suppress the votes depending on where you live.

I think much like the conversation black parents are finding themselves horrified but forced to have with their kids about how to act when they are inevitably stopped for DWB, they are going to have to also teach their kids about how some local governments are going to find ways to make it extremely difficult and time consuming to vote, so vote by mail, vote early, and if need be, be prepared to spend hours on election day voting.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

I think the voter suppression is overrated. The LAZINESS of the voter (and guilty as charged*) to get out and vote is the bigger issue.

*I didn't vote because I didn't like either main party candidate, and this year, the 3rd party had zero chance of winning. Yes, I know about future funding, etc, and I have voted 3rd party in the past, so save it.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

I think the voter suppression is overrated. The LAZINESS of the voter (and guilty as charged*) to get out and vote is the bigger issue.

God Brent, I really try to give you the benefit of the doubt but you make it difficult. Many reliably sourced investigations and subsequent reporting have shown there were far more votes suppressed in Wisconsin in 2016 than was trumps margin of victory. Some estimates put it as high as 200,000 votes. I suppose if you are incredibly naive enough to believe that those votes were split evenly among precincts in poor black areas of some of the cities of Wisconsin and hundreds upon hundreds of white rural precincts than maybe that suppression had an equal effect on both trump and Clinton. And there were similar shenanigans in both Florida and Ohio in 2000. Any suppression in Florida would have cost Gore since he officially lost by just a few hundred votes, and Ohio remains so suspect to this day there is no way in hell I will EVER vote in any way other than by mail with a paper ballot that has to be optically scanned.

Yes lazy voters need to get out and vote but unlike voter fraud, voter suppression is a real thing, and it costs real votes.

*eta* I've lived my entire life in predominantly (or sometimes overwhelmingly) white precincts and have never had an issue with wait times or machine breakdowns. Why does that always seem to happen in poor black areas? When the news finds me some rich white suburb with lines of voters 2 blocks long because of "broken machines" then I might think it isn't intentional on the east side of Cleveland.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

God Brent, I really try to give you the benefit of the doubt but you make it difficult. Many reliably sourced investigations and subsequent reporting have shown there were far more votes suppressed in Wisconsin in 2016 than was trumps margin of victory. Some estimates put it as high as 200,000 votes. I suppose if you are incredibly naive enough to believe that those votes were split evenly among precincts in poor black areas of some of the cities of Wisconsin and hundreds upon hundreds of white rural precincts than maybe that suppression had an equal effect on both trump and Clinton. And there were similar shenanigans in both Florida and Ohio in 2000. Any suppression in Florida would have cost Gore since he officially lost by just a few hundred votes, and Ohio remains so suspect to this day there is no way in hell I will EVER vote in any way other than by mail with a paper ballot that has to be optically scanned.

Yes lazy voters need to get out and vote but unlike voter fraud, voter suppression is a real thing, and it costs real votes.

Then why are certain folks against Voter IDs? Apparently Voter IDs suppress votes.

I will give in to gerrymandering, that is obvious. But frankly, IMO, need to be a citizen (and have proof) to vote.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

Then why are certain folks against Voter IDs? Apparently Voter IDs suppress votes.

I will give in to gerrymandering, that is obvious. But frankly, IMO, need to be a citizen (and have proof) to vote.

Gerrymandering in and of itself doesn't suppress votes as I am speaking of, it just makes your vote meaningless. My votes for state and federal representatives have been gerrymandered into uselessness, but I still cast them.

Voter ID laws are also not the only way they are suppressing votes Brent. The oldest machines end up in the poorest and busiest precincts, leading to breakdowns. Precincts being closed and not enough locations in places where people rely on public transportation to get around. A refusal to extend voting times to 24 hours since so many poor people work 2 jobs and feel compelled to work for fear of getting fired if they miss work time whereas someone like me could sneak off and vote and my employer wouldn't say a word to me.

Those are just the "subtle" ways we suppress votes that have been empirically demonstrated from one corner of the country to another. I'd provide some of the anecdotal evidence I am aware of and have learned and read about, but you seem to find a way to discount just about everything anyway unless it happened to you.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

Gerrymandering in and of itself doesn't suppress votes as I am speaking of, it just makes your vote meaningless. My votes for state and federal representatives have been gerrymandered into uselessness, but I still cast them.

Voter ID laws are also not the only way they are suppressing votes Brent. The oldest machines end up in the poorest and busiest precincts, leading to breakdowns. Precincts being closed and not enough locations in places where people rely on public transportation to get around. A refusal to extend voting times to 24 hours since so many poor people work 2 jobs and feel compelled to work for fear of getting fired if they miss work time whereas someone like me could sneak off and vote and my employer wouldn't say a word to me.

Those are just the "subtle" ways we suppress votes that have been empirically demonstrated from one corner of the country to another. I'd provide some of the anecdotal evidence I am aware of and have learned and read about, but you seem to find a way to discount just about everything anyway unless it happened to you.

I want unified. I have come under fire a lot in this thread, from various folks, and honestly, makes me want to crawl back into my shell. Not the way to solve issues. Not saying you in particular, just kind of lashing out a little. Attack is not productive. Provide an opinion, LISTEN to the counterpoint, and proceed. These past few posts are a good start. Explaining the POV, in depth. I appreciate that.

 

[bronconick]

Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

Then why are certain folks against Voter IDs? Apparently Voter IDs suppress votes.

I will give in to gerrymandering, that is obvious. But frankly, IMO, need to be a citizen (and have proof) to vote.

Voter ID suppresses votes by Republican Sec States closing their offices to "save money" , either with shorter hours or completely, leaving poor people having to go dozens of miles to wait in line when they have to work.

https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/pa-pol-voter-id-helps-gop-win-state-077811

Seriously Brent , open your eyes