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POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

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Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Rover said:
Oddly enough I think that fight has finally been won from a messaging standpoint. I can't ever remember an unpopular tax cut until this last one came along. Furthermore few people actually think they're getting a meaningful increase in take home pay. As late as 20 years ago you'd find a lot of people making 15K a year arguing that we need to cut taxes on the rich because that will benefit everyone. I'm not even sure half of Republicans really believe that anymore, as evidenced by the PA special election results.

I'd also point out the last two Dem Presidents raised taxes on the rich and it didn't seem to hurt their re-election campaigns.
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You know what the sad thing is? If a democrat did the exact same thing (regardless of whether they actually would), it'd be praised. I'm completely convinced, and you've solidified it even further through what I quoted, that it's about the party, not the policy. Heck, look how Trump's being taken to the woodshed on data mining, but when Obama did it, it's completely fine.

Of course, you could spin any tax cut in history as being a tax cut for the rich.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

ScoobyDoo said:
As usual it depends on who votes. We apparently have people who will answer poll questions and surveys that won't bother voting. Yeah, I don't get it either.
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Perhaps you should take a look at the sample. ;)
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Rover said:
Oddly enough I think that fight has finally been won from a messaging standpoint. I can't ever remember an unpopular tax cut until this last one came along. Furthermore few people actually think they're getting a meaningful increase in take home pay. As late as 20 years ago you'd find a lot of people making 15K a year arguing that we need to cut taxes on the rich because that will benefit everyone. I'm not even sure half of Republicans really believe that anymore, as evidenced by the PA special election results.

I'd also point out the last two Dem Presidents raised taxes on the rich and it didn't seem to hurt their re-election campaigns.
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I hope so.

The Republican Santa Claus has bankrupted the country, as it was designed to do. The only way back to America is to claw back 40 years of unpaid taxes from the rich. We need leadership with the balls to tell the bribers to f-ck off. We haven't had those in this country in a long time -- the universities produced a generation of enfeebled slaves to market rhetoric and far right lies.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Look at it this way. The people who write the checks to fund the Republican party (think the Koch brothers and their ilk) would much rather win elections based on tax cuts than racism and white supremacy. Trafficking in white power conspiracies is a dangerous game as we saw in Charlottesville and it runs its share of risks electorally as well (VA elections this year most notably). Yet, the GOP is running on basically the same platform as the KKK. Why? Tax cuts aren't working anymore as a vote getter. Nor do people want some splashy war in a distant land. What got Bush II elected (and re-elected) no longer applies. If it did, we'd be seeing it as the focal point of any GOP congresscritter's campaign.
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
Of course, you could spin any tax cut in history as being a tax cut for the rich.
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2020pres needs to cut tax on income <150k by 5% (their top marginal rate)
Then 150k to 500k u 5%. (Marginal)
Add another marginal 500k to 2mm (add another 5%)
2mm to 10mm (another 5%)
Then above 10mm (another 5%)
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

ScoobyDoo said:
Complete BS. Thanks, Hannity.
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Name a tax cut that you can't spin as a tax cut for the rich. With a progressive system, you hit every band up until your ending of income. Therefore, the rich are getting a cut.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
Complete BS. Thanks, Hannity.
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Here's the thing, given our marginal tax bracket system, the easiest way to give a tax cut to someone other than the rich is to cut the rates on the lowest brackets while leaving the highest brackets alone (or, God forbid, raising them to offset the cuts elsewhere). Yeah, they will benefit the rich to the extent the rich still pay those percentages at those involve levels, but for once it'd benefit everyone else a helluva lot more.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

unofan said:
Here's the thing, given our marginal tax bracket system, the easiest way to give a tax cut to someone other than the rich is to cut the rates on the lowest brackets while leaving the highest brackets alone (or, God forbid, raising them to offset the cuts elsewhere). Yeah, they will benefit the rich to the extent the rich still pay those percentages at those involve levels, but for once it'd benefit everyone else a helluva lot more.
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which is why mookie's works. move a nickle from under 250k to the 250k and up brackets (and tack on more nickles to the 3 new brackets on top.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

mookie1995 said:
which is why mookie's works. move a nickle from under 250k to the 250k and up brackets (and tack on more nickles to the 3 new brackets on top.
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I am all for this as a start and proof of concept. But you can see the kind of brainwashing you're up against on this very thread.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Meh. Playing the marginal tax rate game is all well and good, but at the end of the day the next time the knucks' get back in power they're going to cut the top rate again. BUT - what if there's a way to raise taxes on the rich....PERMANENTLY?!?!?!

In fact there is, and its right in front of everybody's noses. Its called payroll taxes. If you want to soak the rich, screw them with higher payroll taxes in order to fund an expansion of social security and Medicare. A progressive Dem could easily run on lifting income cap on social security since its all on income below approx. 120K (too lazy to look up). This also sticks it to corporations who just got a big kiss in the mail from the GOP. Now they're going to give that back. Payroll taxes are a lot tougher to get out of paying and good luck campaigning to reduce them as Republicans found out when they tried to repeal the ACA specifically to give their wealthy donors a tax cut (the Medicaid surcharge). Not sure about SS but for Medicare/Medicaid you can charge a higher rate for higher income levels. Lets see knuckledraggers try to explain their opposition to that one. :D

Oh, and before some dinosaur righty tries to float out the "But It'll Cut Jobs" crap, to believe that is to believe that corporate America has millions of excess employees lying around out of the goodness of their own hearts who would be out of a job if it cost a little more to employ them. Anybody who actually has a job knows that that's BS as peak lean efficiency as its called has been the norm for like 20 years now.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Rover said:
Meh. Playing the marginal tax rate game is all well and good, but at the end of the day the next time the knucks' get back in power they're going to cut the top rate again. BUT - what if there's a way to raise taxes on the rich....PERMANENTLY?!?!?!

In fact there is, and its right in front of everybody's noses. Its called payroll taxes. If you want to soak the rich, screw them with higher payroll taxes in order to fund an expansion of social security and Medicare. A progressive Dem could easily run on lifting income cap on social security since its all on income below approx. 120K (too lazy to look up). This also sticks it to corporations who just got a big kiss in the mail from the GOP. Now they're going to give that back. Payroll taxes are a lot tougher to get out of paying and good luck campaigning to reduce them as Republicans found out when they tried to repeal the ACA specifically to give their wealthy donors a tax cut (the Medicaid surcharge). Not sure about SS but for Medicare/Medicaid you can charge a higher rate for higher income levels. Lets see knuckledraggers try to explain their opposition to that one. :D

Oh, and before some dinosaur righty tries to float out the "But It'll Cut Jobs" crap, to believe that is to believe that corporate America has millions of excess employees lying around out of the goodness of their own hearts who would be out of a job if it cost a little more to employ them. Anybody who actually has a job knows that that's BS as peak lean efficiency as its called has been the norm for like 20 years now.
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I would love to see payroll tax reform. Seems to me it's a no brainer. There are many many many things they could do to make it more fair and to make Social Security and Medicare better and more permanent than they already are.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Teachers are getting ****ed off in Red State America. I wonder why? Honestly, I have no clue. :rolleyes:

Thousands of teachers in Oklahoma and Kentucky walked off the job Monday morning, shutting down school districts as they protested cuts in pay, benefits and school funding in a movement that has grown in force since igniting in West Virginia earlier this year.

The wave of strikes in red states, mainly organized by ordinary teachers on Facebook, has caught lawmakers and sometimes the teachers’ own labor unions flat-footed. The protesters say they are fed up with years of education funding cuts and stagnant pay in Republican-dominated states.

In Oklahoma City, where protesting teachers were gathering at the Capitol on Monday morning, Katrina Ruff, a local teacher, carried a sign that read, “Thanks to West Virginia.”

“They gave us the guts to stand up for ourselves,” she said.

The next red state domino to fall could be Arizona. On March 28, thousands of teachers gathered in Phoenix to demand a 20 percent pay raise and more funding for schools.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/...ahoma-kentucky.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Kepler said:
My daughter is a teacher in AZ. Many of her fellow teachers are full-on knuckledraggers. They all plan to strike unless the state gets its act together.
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I can't imagine why. It's all so confusing. ;)
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Rover said:
Meh. Playing the marginal tax rate game is all well and good, but at the end of the day the next time the knucks' get back in power they're going to cut the top rate again. BUT - what if there's a way to raise taxes on the rich....PERMANENTLY?!?!?!

In fact there is, and its right in front of everybody's noses. Its called payroll taxes. If you want to soak the rich, screw them with higher payroll taxes in order to fund an expansion of social security and Medicare. A progressive Dem could easily run on lifting income cap on social security since its all on income below approx. 120K (too lazy to look up). This also sticks it to corporations who just got a big kiss in the mail from the GOP. Now they're going to give that back. Payroll taxes are a lot tougher to get out of paying and good luck campaigning to reduce them as Republicans found out when they tried to repeal the ACA specifically to give their wealthy donors a tax cut (the Medicaid surcharge). Not sure about SS but for Medicare/Medicaid you can charge a higher rate for higher income levels. Lets see knuckledraggers try to explain their opposition to that one. :D

Oh, and before some dinosaur righty tries to float out the "But It'll Cut Jobs" crap, to believe that is to believe that corporate America has millions of excess employees lying around out of the goodness of their own hearts who would be out of a job if it cost a little more to employ them. Anybody who actually has a job knows that that's BS as peak lean efficiency as its called has been the norm for like 20 years now.
Click to expand...

The most effective way to raise taxes on the wealthy is a wealth tax. Sure, the GOP will reverse it every time they get into office, but in the meantime we take 10% of everything over $10M every year we're in power. It adds up, and we can use it to finance cutting taxes on the middle class to keep getting us elected.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Kepler said:
The most effective way to raise taxes on the wealthy is a wealth tax. Sure, the GOP will reverse it every time they get into office, but in the meantime we take 10% of everything over $10M every year we're in power. It adds up, and we can use it to finance cutting taxes on the middle class to keep getting us elected.
Click to expand...

You're not sticking it to corporations by doing that Kep which I think is one of your priorities. Besides, my plan means we raise that money permanently. If the knucks' get in power and then we go through a period of divided govt, you're never going to get that rate back up.
 
Re: POTUS 45.30: "Stormy Weather...It Keeps on Rainin' all the Time..."

Rover said:
You're not sticking it to corporations by doing that Kep which I think is one of your priorities. Besides, my plan means we raise that money permanently. If the knucks' get in power and then we go through a period of divided govt, you're never going to get that rate back up.
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I don't want to stick it to corporations and never have. Corporations are just tools to create job and goods. I want to stick it to the wealthy owners and highest paid managers of corporations.

Setting aside the immorality of poverty for a moment, the most efficient world has no rich and no poor. There is still a huge difference in incentive between the levels of current upper middle class and lower middle class to preserve incentives for work. We can enhance the free market by continually pruning away large accumulations of wealth, particularly with confiscatory taxes on large inheritances, and by providing a humane floor for every citizen including food, clothing, shelter, medical care, child care, and education. Wealth concentration is the mortal enemy of democracy. Private ownership is a Good Thing, but it should be spread around as much as possible.
 
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