POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

[unofan]

That is the worst thing American business ever did, namely, move off shore.

But why'd they do it? Yup, profits.
Why? We demanded better performance out of our 401k and they got a better business environment to meet that demand.

We meaning your beloved MBA graduates and financiers.

The rest of us were perfectly happy with pensions.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

"Give me more money in my 401k and my paycheck." <-- Uh ... how. What are you doing to add more value so there's more money to give you?

LOL

401K is a scam instituted by the Rich Wall Street Folk. Which is almost as bad as every actuary who ****ed up every pension ever designed. Workers have always gotten screwed. Every time we ask for higher wages they give us some bull**** benefit and then take it away when the actuary is proven wrong. Just give me my ****ing money now.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

But again, the real action is lower down in the 40%s through 80%s. That's where you get non-trivial sample sizes.

<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ObAHTdIfi8s/TUOBD1ZQYxI/AAAAAAAABDk/nbauH0aUj64/s1600/1955%2Btax%2Btables.JPG"></img>

Median income in 2010 was $50,000. Holy sh-t -- it looks like that table tracks fairly closely with what I pulled out of my butt a while ago!

Obvious next questions:
We can see rates and brackets.
What were the deductions in 1955?
And what fraction of taxpayers/returns fell into each bucket?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Just give me my ****ing money now.

I'm all for that.
Except you're also arguing to have the tax man take away more and more of it at the same time.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

We meaning your beloved MBA graduates and financiers.

The rest of us were perfectly happy with pensions.

Pensions were great. There were two problems. One was graft (under funding or raiding of it). The second, yes, was creation of the 401k. The 401k was supposed to increase personal responsibility and savings (for retirement) which is good for the economy. However, we started demanding that 401k number keep not just going up but ballooning. Enter companies doing whatever it takes (see: off shoring) to make the numbers go up.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

We? We've been demanding higher wages too. They gave us the middle finger for that.

But you're not one of the top 20%, who own something like 65% of all the stock shares in America.

 

[Handyman]

Ugly statement warning, read on at own peril:
Slave labor is part of the better business environment some chose. Labor costs were lower, and Scoob's 401k benefited.

That's why I said "That is the worst thing American business ever did, namely, move off shore." It's bad enough to sell your soul for a dollar, but to buy into slavery too is disgusting. Shame on Nike et al.

Sorry that dog won't hunt. This isn't about 401ks this is about greed and that resides way more with those in charge. Keep trying...

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Pensions were great. There were two problems. One was graft (under funding or raiding of it). The second, yes, was creation of the 401k. The 401k was supposed to increase personal responsibility and savings (for retirement) which is good for the economy. However, we started demanding that 401k number keep not just going up but ballooning. Enter companies doing whatever it takes (see: off shoring) to make the numbers go up.

"We" did? I think you're confusing us 401k holders with the market masters on Wall Street, who began demanding double digit returns every quarter, or they'd toss your company on the chit heap. .

I'd be perfectly happy with a nice 7-8% return/year, year after year. Doubles my money every ten years, roughly.

Not good enough for Wall Street. Hence, the move to offshore production, laying off workers, cutting full-time and relying on part time and "independent contractors", propping up that stock price any way they could, and working the people they did have to the bone.

Didn't effect CEO pay, though, which has just kept going up. And you know what the irony is? The more people the CEO lays off, cuts his labor cost, the more he gets rewarded.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

But you're not one of the top 20%, who own something like 65% of all the stock shares in America.

Not even close, the top 10% in wealth hold over 80% of the stock market. WE aren't fueling the demands for the growth of 401k's, Sic is completely full of 5hit, as usual.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

I'd be perfectly happy with a nice 7-8% return/year, year after year. Doubles my money every ten years, roughly.

Not good enough for Wall Street.

Why not good enough for Wall Street? Easy. For you to make your 8, they need to pay their costs. Enter 10%.

They'll never cut their costs; they'll just demand more from the corporations or worse (less to you). By that model, not cutting their spending, their overhead, it sounds like they're qualified for politics too.

 

[trixR4kids]

I think you may have been reading a little too much Pete Peterson.

This actually seems to make good sense to me.

His link basically states that people are buying more houses there which is why they have more debt. Unlike here where like 95% of millennials can’t even afford to do that. Sounds terrible!

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Not even close, the top 10% in wealth hold over 80% of the stock market. WE aren't fueling the demands for the growth of 401k's, Sic is completely full of 5hit, as usual.

Oh bullcrap to you. When the market bounced in 2008 what was the common refrain from all quarters? "Oh my 401k."

That said, according to the IRS in 2016, it took a household AGI over $133k to be in the top 10%. It takes $214k to be top 5%. I can't claim top 5% but I'm closer to that than the 10% number. (Pull out your 1040 and look at line 37.)

I guess I'm just an evil rich < bleep >. Who works three jobs that he enjoys. So yeah, I'd like to not have the money I make working over 200 hours in the average month "redistributed".

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Whines about choosing to work 200 hours A MONTH so that he can make 200k and expects people to feel sorry for him because he has to pay slightly higher taxes than the rest of us lmao.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Not even close, the top 10% in wealth hold over 80% of the stock market. WE aren't fueling the demands for the growth of 401k's, Sic is completely full of 5hit, as usual.

I'd love to see this broken down for maybe the Dow 30. Who holds what? Break down the institutional ownership like Vanguard. Who owns the shares within the funds there. It's a virtually impossibly complicated task even for one company, for sure. But I would love to see it.

 

[Handyman]

Oh bullcrap to you. When the market bounced in 2008 what was the common refrain from all quarters? "Oh my 401k."

That said, according to the IRS in 2016, it took a household AGI over $133k to be in the top 10%. It takes $214k to be top 5%. I can't claim top 5% but I'm closer to that than the 10% number. (Pull out your 1040 and look at line 37.)

I guess I'm just an evil rich < bleep >. Who works three jobs that he enjoys. So yeah, I'd like to not have the money I make working over 200 hours in the average month "redistributed".

Yes because the greedy people you seem to love destroyed the 401ks. No one made the banks and large businesses over extend and crater themselves especially not the people who have 401ks. People being upset they lost their retirement /= MAKE US MORE MONEY AT ALL COSTS!! Just a ludicrous take.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Oh bullcrap to you. When the market bounced in 2008 what was the common refrain from all quarters? "Oh my 401k."

That said, according to the IRS in 2016, it took a household AGI over $133k to be in the top 10%. It takes $214k to be top 5%. I can't claim top 5% but I'm closer to that than the 10% number. (Pull out your 1040 and look at line 37.)

I guess I'm just an evil rich < bleep >. Who works three jobs that he enjoys. So yeah, I'd like to not have the money I make working over 200 hours in the average month "redistributed".

Wealth /= AGI, and based on your posts I'm guessing you drop a large amount on depends, which don't really hold their value too well once used.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Good Lord Faux is on at the dealership I am at...listening to them try and compare the DNC scandal with the Russia deal is amaziing. Third graders have a better grasp of logic than these clowns. Juan Williams or whatever his name is looked flabbergasted listening to their crap and he himself is a clown.

I can't understand how anyone who made it past 6th grade can watch this crap and buy any of it. Even leaving bias out of it I mean this is hilarious in its stupidity.

Of course now the show flipped and Bret Whatshisname is doing everything but talk about Russia. First it was Trump going to Asia, then the Dow and unemployment and up next the story on everyone's minds...Trump being deleted from Twitter. Lord knows how bad Faux will be when Sinclair Media becomes a thing...

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Worst thing I've ever heard at a all hands meeting at work- "Shareholder value".

That is the dumbest thing of all time. You are making profits, but the shareholders demand more? And with "shareholder value"- the best way to get that is always cutting. Costs, jobs, etc- which is a great way to totally deflate profits, since that forces you to lose what the consumer really wants.

Wall St adds nothing to a company, not at all (other than the ones who have the original stock offering). Why do we fall to their crappy demands? Customers are always the ones who make a company prosper- they are the ones giving your money for your product, they are the ones who if you have increased demand- drive job increases as a company needs more people to make more stuff. When you really focus on your consumer, and give them a real vision of what you are offering, your stock price will take care of itself. See Apple, Google, and Facebook. Especially FB- since they only really sell advertising. They appeal so much to a consumer that they continue to grow in size.

It's a good example of UNO's about how capitalism can be bad. Focus on the wrong thing, and real people suffer. Badly. All for a group of people who really don't add to the overall economy, since their money is tied up in a guessing game.

BTW, one really crappy thing about the 401k- it drives a total lack of appreciation. Both for the employee and the company. Employees can move around at will (no golden handcuffs), and companies are happy cycling people through. I can't wait until I can retire with my pension. It's pretty soon.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Worst thing I've ever heard at a all hands meeting at work- "Shareholder value".

That is the dumbest thing of all time. You are making profits, but the shareholders demand more? And with "shareholder value"- the best way to get that is always cutting. Costs, jobs, etc- which is a great way to totally deflate profits, since that forces you to lose what the consumer really wants.

Wall St adds nothing to a company, not at all (other than the ones who have the original stock offering). Why do we fall to their crappy demands? Customers are always the ones who make a company prosper- they are the ones giving your money for your product, they are the ones who if you have increased demand- drive job increases as a company needs more people to make more stuff. When you really focus on your consumer, and give them a real vision of what you are offering, your stock price will take care of itself. See Apple, Google, and Facebook. Especially FB- since they only really sell advertising. They appeal so much to a consumer that they continue to grow in size.

It's a good example of UNO's about how capitalism can be bad. Focus on the wrong thing, and real people suffer. Badly. All for a group of people who really don't add to the overall economy, since their money is tied up in a guessing game.

BTW, one really crappy thing about the 401k- it drives a total lack of appreciation. Both for the employee and the company. Employees can move around at will (no golden handcuffs), and companies are happy cycling people through. I can't wait until I can retire with my pension. It's pretty soon.

Awesome post.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Worst thing I've ever heard at a all hands meeting at work- "Shareholder value".

BTW, one really crappy thing about the 401k- it drives a total lack of appreciation. Both for the employee and the company. Employees can move around at will (no golden handcuffs), and companies are happy cycling people through. I can't wait until I can retire with my pension. It's pretty soon.

You are dead on. It should be about customer value. If you're doing that right, well, the other stuff follows.

And yes, the 401k devalues people. People become just another commodity.