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POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

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geezer said:
This is a misconception, social security payments have nothing to do with recipients' poverty level or any kind of means testing. It's not insurance against poverty, it's just a straight ponzi scheme that transfers taxes on workers to retirees. Has nothing to do with how poor they are.
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No it's not. A Ponzi scheme is a pyramid scheme. Social security is simply a direct transfer of wealth from workers to retirees, just like insurance is a transfer of wealth from the lucky to the unlucky (or fortunate to unfortunate, if you prefer).
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

geezer said:
This is a misconception, social security payments have nothing to do with recipients' poverty level or any kind of means testing. It's not insurance against poverty, it's just a straight ponzi scheme that transfers taxes on workers to retirees. Has nothing to do with how poor they are.
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I know the payments have nothing to do with the poverty level. That doesn't mean that part of the intent of the law was to prevent poverty at retirement.

At a November 27, 1934 meeting the staff displayed a large wall-chart showing two trend lines, one for old-age assistance and one for the social insurance program. The line for old-age assistance was heading down while that for social insurance was heading up. At the point where they intersected, social insurance would have assumed the bulk of the burden of providing old-age security in America. Thus, general revenue expenses for old-age assistance would steadily diminish, thanks to Social Security.
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https://www.ssa.gov/history/genrev.html

Basically it was a welfare prevention program and it's done a great job doing that.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Kepler said:
Nobody said it would be a good argument.
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It really depends on one's circumstances. For me personally, I think I/we(if you include my wife) would be better off if I could opt out of SS and have an extra 401K or whatever you want to call it. I say this because my wife is a public sector employee and will get a very generous pension. With her pension(and healthcare) alone we should have plenty of monthly income in retirement to cover the normal expenses. I would rather have say an extra $1MM in a 401K account that I had access to when I want it versus a future stream of payments.
 
Drew S. said:
It really depends on one's circumstances. For me personally, I think I/we(if you include my wife) would be better off if I could opt out of SS and have an extra 401K or whatever you want to call it. I say this because my wife is a public sector employee and will get a very generous pension. With her pension(and healthcare) alone we should have plenty of monthly income in retirement to cover the normal expenses. I would rather have say an extra $1MM in a 401K account that I had access to when I want it versus a future stream of payments.
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Nobody makes you cash your socsec checks. Anyone can opt out of taking it.. what’s the big deal?
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Drew S. said:
It really depends on one's circumstances. For me personally, I think I/we(if you include my wife) would be better off if I could opt out of SS and have an extra 401K or whatever you want to call it. I say this because my wife is a public sector employee and will get a very generous pension. With her pension(and healthcare) alone we should have plenty of monthly income in retirement to cover the normal expenses. I would rather have say an extra $1MM in a 401K account that I had access to when I want it versus a future stream of payments.
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And when wifey loses her public sector job(look at that, sucking off the government teat), and you get cancer and can't work, and use all your 401k to pay your medical expenses? Or stay healthy, but can no longer put money away since wifey lost her government teat sucking job? What then?
 
rufus said:
And when wifey loses her public sector job(look at that, sucking off the government teat), and you get cancer and can't work, and use all your 401k to pay your medical expenses? Or stay healthy, but can no longer put money away since wifey lost her government teat sucking job? What then?
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Pimp out wifey at The Villages?
 
rufus said:
And when wifey loses her public sector job(look at that, sucking off the government teat), and you get cancer and can't work, and use all your 401k to pay your medical expenses? Or stay healthy, but can no longer put money away since wifey lost her government teat sucking job? What then?
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You might be 100% right. Life is a crapshoot to say the least. As I said earlier I'm happy to pay in to the disability bit and have that true insurance coverage. As far as the retirement portion though I think that my wife and I would be better off if I could be in a 401k type scheme.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Drew S. said:
It really depends on one's circumstances. For me personally, I think I/we(if you include my wife) would be better off if I could opt out of SS and have an extra 401K or whatever you want to call it. I say this because my wife is a public sector employee and will get a very generous pension. With her pension(and healthcare) alone we should have plenty of monthly income in retirement to cover the normal expenses. I would rather have say an extra $1MM in a 401K account that I had access to when I want it versus a future stream of payments.
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And what if you 1) made bad choices in your 401k? or 2) the market took a dump at the precise time you need it? You'd have a fraction of what you think you need.

Or worse, since it's private, you can choose to not invest it, and use it on some kind of an emergency fund that you need now?

It's a great concept that people will act responsibly for retirement, but the facts have shown quite the otherwise. I have more than one relative living up in their age and SS is the only remaining income they have. It's barely enough to survive, but it's better than nothing.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

alfablue said:
And what if you 1) made bad choices in your 401k? or 2) the market took a dump at the precise time you need it? You'd have a fraction of what you think you need.

Or worse, since it's private, you can choose to not invest it, and use it on some kind of an emergency fund that you need now?

It's a great concept that people will act responsibly for retirement, but the facts have shown quite the otherwise. I have more than one relative living up in their age and SS is the only remaining income they have. It's barely enough to survive, but it's better than nothing.
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Even if you make good choices you can end up bankrupt. The GOP Health Plan is bankruptcy after all.
 
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